Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[MCRider]

BTW: HondaMan has a great post under FAQ about the lower crankcases, bearings, and torquing them down.

[MCRider]

So we finished the ring end gap thing. Several were a skosh tight based on the rules: top ring = 4 thou per inch = 10+thou. Scraper ring = 5thou per inch = 13+thou. Oil ring rails = 15thou.
Didn't have a fancy gap grinder, used my ignition file.

We installed a base gasket and slid the cylinders on without rings. So my deck height is 17thou. using the tail of my caliper. But is this the same as "squish"? Or does squish include the head gasket. If so, my head gasket is 75thou. Assuming 30% crush, I've got a combined squish of 69.5thou. Any engine builders care to comment?   In any event I want to go on the mild side and I hope I'm there.

Removing the cylinders, the base gasket was drawn up and ripped even though we were very careful after realizing that the gasket was coming up with the cylinders. Its a CycleX gasket. It fits very tight on the sleeves and between the sleeves. Of course its for a stocker and would work fine up to an 850. But with the larger sleeves, it was just a skosh tight here and there and wouldn't have worked without mod. I had bought 2 OEM spares from Motogrid. I checked one and it fits the oversized sleeves without sticking, so lesson learned.

So we put the rings on the pistones. But the circlips (OEM) seem awful big to fit in that little hole. Comments?

Set the autographed head on the cyls, with the cam cover just to look and see. A builder would have to be confident of their work to sign it, hope that pans out. Note the date...11-1-00!


If I get my questions answered, we'll put the cyls on next and put the motor in the frame sans head, to save some weight.
Excited.

[MasterChief750]

are those holes drilled in your fins? benefits, reasons?

[MCRider]

are those holes drilled in your fins? benefits, reasons?

Yes they are. I did not do it. I've lost the origin of the cylinders in the haze of the late 70s early 80s. I had posted a picture of these cylinders in a different thread. A respondent commented that these are early, (possibly K0) cylinders. And/or a Yoshimura cylinder.  The reason would be heat dissipation.

To me, its just my cylinder. As mentioned I don't know their origin. I went thru a couple of engines back in my racing days and picked up parts here and there. One possible explanation is that I had a sandcast engine, ( I think i did and didn't realize back then its possible worth) I raced 750cc, and trashed the sleeves. So I used the block to put oversize sleeves in for my first 888cc.

I then had it resleeved for this second 888cc kit.

[MasterChief750]

got ya, didnt know if it was some holy grail of head dissapation. it does make sense as more surface area = better heat dissapation

[MCRider]

got ya, didnt know if it was some holy grail of head dissapation. it does make sense as more surface area = better heat dissapation

The holes are only in the top and bottom fins. I would have thought they would have gone thru all the fins. But like I said, I really don't know.

[MCRider]

No one gave me any opinions on the piston circlips. I even emailed Arias and no response. So we sucked it up and attempted to put in the OEMs. Once we got past the psychological barrier of "how does that big clip fit in that little hole?" it became apparent that they did. I started to put the first clipo in the inside of #3. Knowing full well they can launch themselves across the room, I went to pushing one in anyway, without my failsafe. If you put a long #3 phillips screwdriver in the hole, you can work around it, pushing the clip in. If it does flip out it is stalled on the shaft of the screwdriver, and its handle.

The first clip I went out without the failsafe and sure enough...Ping! I heard it hit the wall twice, in the corner, then silence. I was sick. But in a few minutes, Bruce found it on the breakdown table. Unbelieveable. I used the screwdriver trick for the rest of them, but of course none of them flipped out.


More later.

[Damfino]

You could probably find work as a hand model Ron...those are some of the cleanest hands I've ever seen!

[MCRider]

Aw shucks, thanks man! I knew i missed my calling somwhere.

I am (almost) obsessive compulsive about it. I use an "invisible glove" product that keeps oil and stuff from sticking, but it washes off when i wash my hands, which I do a lot.

[MCRider]

So we got the pistons on the rods with out further hassle. These 58 year old eyes can't see those small spaces like they did when I was 28. But flashlight and magnifying glass made sure the clips were all seated.   Milestone. After nearly 12 years, the Arias box is in the trash! Another square foot of shelf space opens up.


So we started laying out the parts to put the cylinder on.  KOS fancy pants cam chain tensioner ready. But what, no new front slider. I've got two pretty good used ones but at this point, gotta go new.

So that goes on this weeks parts list. Also the 12x15 knock pins were not to be found, so on order as well. The 12x22 knocks for the cyl to head interface are no longer available, luckily I have them. I'm sure they would be available from some aftermarket source, but at least i don't have to shop. If the slider and knocks come in quickly, the cyls will go on next week.

In the meantime we removed the parts from the frame that would keep the engine from going in. Case guards, footpegs, motormounts, oil tank, steering damper, were all mocked up and had to come off. taping of the frame rails with painters tape begins.

I have 2 long cam chain sliders. On a scale of 1-10, 1 is a 9 and one is a 7. Anyone want them for 12 and $8 respectively? Serviceable for a "runner" engine. New ones are about $20.

PS: Oh yeah, I ordered and received the carb boot clamps from Carpy. Stainless, narrow, decent price, got them quickly. Another item checked off.

[MCRider]

Still deliberating on the paint job. Plum Crazy Purple metal flake is the primary for sure. Something in gold leaf, and "Phaedrus" in cursive. Very 70s is the goal. Life long goals to be realized: metal flake, gold leaf, and flames.

Phaedrus I had a wolfs head, but I'm more thinking not for P2.

I ran across this tank/paint job (picture) I think in someones thread here on the forum, and I think it'll work in concept.

Gold leaf flames, and Phaedrus where the Honda goes. Matching flames on the leading edge of the sidecovers. The flames don't have to be like in the picture, I'll leave that up to the painter.  Accomplishes my life goals, easy to communicate to the painter.



But I won't be making the same mistake twice. I had the P2 paintjob done back in 2000. Purple (but not flake) gold wolfs head, pin striping. But after 10 years sitting on the shelf the tank developed pinholes, and the side covers are brittle as a cracker.

So I'll finish P2 completely and the paint will be the very last thing. I'll make sure the tank, treated at Moyers tank restoration (http://www.gas-tank.com/bike.htm) and Frankenstuff side covers are completely compatible with everything and functioning properly before the paint is applied. P2 can run in primer.

[Zaipai]

Yea, that would be TinTop's tank..



I say go with what you have been wanting, 70's style or not..

.: Scott :.

[MCRider]

Thanks for the credit where due, I couldn't remember where i got it. Don't remember if TinTop is using it or painting over it, but it was an ah-ha moment for me.

Of course i could change my mind again.   

[Terry in Australia]

Looking good Ron, oh, and I might have mislead you on those drilled fins in the other thread, my Yoshimura cylinders had bigger holes (around 12mm, from memory) drilled straight thru all the fins, not just the top one, like on your engine. I've no idea why they only drilled your top fin. Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

Looking good Ron, oh, and I might have mislead you on those drilled fins in the other thread, my Yoshimura cylinders had bigger holes (around 12mm, from memory) drilled straight thru all the fins, not just the top one, like on your engine. I've no idea why they only drilled your top fin. Cheers, Terry.

Bigger holes would make more sense, and all the way thru. That kills the yosh backstory.

Mine are a mystery, they do include the bottom fin, but not any of the middle fins. A PO's obsession I suppose. They are clean and deburred.

If the new front slider gets here by Friday, we'll put the cyls on this weekend. Otherwise, the ignition and alternator, and clutch can go on.

[Zaipai]

Yea, Tintop painted over it already. He found it on ebay that way...

Still I like the flames, on the right bike it can look really good. Either way I am sure your tank will look fabulous.

.: Scott :.

[MCRider]

Yea, Tintop painted over it already. He found it on ebay that way...

Still I like the flames, on the right bike it can look really good. Either way I am sure your tank will look fabulous.

.: Scott :.

Yeah I found that thread and saw his progress. It looked good in the pictures but its pretty hard for any used paint job to be good enough to use as is. But its given me something I like and can show the painter.

My build theme is to keep it 70s chic, so flake and some form of flames is appropriate. I don't know if the flames can go over the flake. I'll find out. At first i wanted to redo the wolf's head, but I've backed away from that idea in favor of the flames.

The new plan will be to have the "Phaedrus" in cursive where the Honda used to be.
Then flames where the pinstripes were

No update today. Got a chance to make some money, must be ready by Monday afternoon, so I'm in the office today.  Need $$ for the paint job anyway.  Happy Sad    

PS: I'd like to get Gold Diamonds from Frankenstuff to replace the orange ones.

[MCRider]

A lookback at the header we're using, for inspiration.

Laser/Marshall Deep Tone

[Really?]

That's perty!

[RAFster122s]

You could change the size of flake and ghost in flames into the paint job that way...just have to mask over the flake to do the flames...

Would be an interesting experiment to see how that would turn out...

Or just do the flames in metal flake...

The candy over the metal flake is a build-up for darker colors so you could potentially use the candy top color to flame areas of the tank you want.

Just need to find a paint guy who does candy and metal flake paint jobs now...

David

[MCRider]

Interesting ideas. I was hoping to do the flames in gold leaf, might be asking too much. All flake could look cool, very 70s.

My power coat guy claims his painter can do it. We'll see.

[mrbreeze]

Yea, Tintop painted over it already. He found it on ebay that way...

Still I like the flames, on the right bike it can look really good. Either way I am sure your tank will look fabulous.

.: Scott :.

Yeah I found that thread and saw his progress. It looked good in the pictures but its pretty hard for any used paint job to be good enough to use as is. But its given me something I like and can show the painter.

My build theme is to keep it 70s chic, so flake and some form of flames is appropriate. I don't know if the flames can go over the flake. I'll find out. At first i wanted to redo the wolf's head, but I've backed away from that idea in favor of the flames.

The new plan will be to have the "Phaedrus" in cursive where the Honda used to be.
Then flames where the pinstripes were

No update today. Got a chance to make some money, must be ready by Monday afternoon, so I'm in the office today.  Need $$ for the paint job anyway.  Happy Sad    

PS: I'd like to get Gold Diamonds from Frankenstuff to replace the orange ones.

Never noticed before Ron but I really like the look of your old paint on the tank minus the writing & the wolf. Not to say it's bad but I think it would look cool with the 2 tone that is pin striped off and put the Honda badges back on painted black. I'm gonna print a pic of that for future reference.

[MCRider]

Aaah a little something for everyone.   

[Tintop]

OK, I'll swap you a flame job inspiration, for info on what was used for the 'gold wolf' in the original paint job.

[MCRider]

OK, I'll swap you a flame job inspiration, for info on what was used for the 'gold wolf' in the original paint job.

The profile was done by the painter free hand. The gold is 22k gold leaf that has been "engine turned", also done by the painter.
http://www.workingpsychology.com/diversions/jeweling.html
And then pinstriped on the edges.

That's what i would want my flames to be, engine turned gold leaf, trimmed in red probably.

I'd be using the paint in the picture if the tank hadn't disentegrated on me.

The true original Phaedrus paint was a black job with the head in engine turned gold. But I wanted a tank with the tap on the left side instead of right. Turns out the tank was a wrinkle tank and Terry ended up with it for one of his K0 resto projects.