Topic: I may be Canadian but............

[BobbyR]

One last thing I just bought a cheap 3kw gasoline generator. Since my gas can is usually low I would like to run it on natural gas(Not Propane), which I use for heating, cooking, etc. l looked on the web and I found really expensive kits or a Jury rigs that looked dangerous. Anyone have good solid info on this or has done it successfully? Thanks in advance.

[eldar]

Ed, tt and gordon present well thought out responses. You present a bickering attitude that refuses to concede anything even when proven wrong. How many times has this happened? Quite a few times. Maybe it is your "I'm from nyc and therefore know everything" attitude.

Here is one other thing you are wrong with. Producing hydrogen does NOT require hydrocarbons. It requires ELECTRICITY, which can come from ANY source. Therefore if windpower was used, there would be no issues generating hydrogen.

As for tt's examples, they are valid and are not putting words in your mouth, just following YOUR logic. Of course you do not like that.
If we did follow your thinking on hydrogen, we would not have even entered the steam age yet. Steam is under pressure. Hell air in your tires is under pressure and can cause harm if there was a violent expulsion of air. how can you even ride your bike? I mean it is dangerous and as gas is being burned, always has the possibility of explosion.

By the way, respond however you want. I will not read it. I am all for finding other sources of fuel besides oil.

[75modrat]

Yeah, respond however you want...I'll read it. 

[eldar]

Are you sure you want to?   

[edbikerii]

Yes, Eldar, I quoted some of TT's responses, and I even indicated that I agreed with his main conclusion.  As usual, some of what TT wrote was well thought out.  Some of it was just plain rude.  Some of what you have written was just plain rude, too.  I was surprised that TT would resort to that.  I am not surprised that you would.

Once again Eldar, you either didn't bother to read, or cannot comprehend what I wrote.  Go back and read point 1 (of 6 valid, supported points) from my post again.

Yes, we could use windpower, or even solar power to generate electricity.  Why don't we?  Why don't you have a windmill or a solar panel on top of your house, today, Eldar?  It is that dirty little four-letter word again, isn't it?  COST.  Don't forget all the costs, including battery systems, environment damage from producing and disposing of the batteries when they wear out every few years, variances to install a giant windmill on your roof, etc.

Yes, Eldar, steam illustrates my point perfectly!!!  Steam is also very dangerous, and there are very few systems that use steam anymore because numerous people were maimed and killed in boiler explosions.  The big difference is that steam was the best that modern science had to offer during that time period.  We eventually moved to safer methods.  Hydrogen is not the best we have to offer today.

Are you seriously trying to compare 35-50 psi of air in automotive tires with 5000 psi of explosive hydrogen?  I guess I'll just end on that.

[nickjtc]

Hell air in your tires is under pressure and can cause harm if there was a violent expulsion of air.

Would that be OEM air or aftermarket? Upper air or lower? Hot air or cold?

[seaweb11]

Thread management decision.

No more I'm smarter than you are crap   Take your ball somewhere else and play.

[ofreen]

This oil price crap$$$$$$  is starting to get to me.
(snip)
I have actually caught myself thinking if the #$%* hits the fan we can sink the ferry to keep you all out
We all have gardens and we all love each other

Well, the potential for anything to happen is there, certainly.  The balloon could go up and the veneer of civilization is thin indeed.  I remember the energy crises of the '70 very well.  I remember gas stations only open for a couple of hours a day before they ran out of gas.  I remember sitting in line for two hours for gas, only to have the station stop selling as I got to the pump.  I remember shouting matches at the pumps, and stories of fights and shootings.  I remember the price of gas escalating rapidly every day.  And I remember politicians pulling ideas out of their anal orifices on how to rectify (pun intended) things.

Because of all of this, the mood was grim.  According to predictions at the time, we should all be huddling in the cold and dark right now.  There were going to be worldwide energy wars.  Lots of gloom and doom.  Of course, just like the ice age many scientists were convinced was around the corner, none of it happened.  We are being manipulated now just like then.  I don't know how it is going to end up, but as usual, it won't be how most of us expect.

None of this is to say that people shouldn't be prepared to fend for themselves for a time.  Natural disasters such as Katrina teaches us that.

[dustyc]

I'm going to start work on a way to use puppies, kittens and baby seals as a fuel.  I don't think anyone could object to that.

[BobbyR]

This oil price crap$$$$$$  is starting to get to me.
(snip)
I have actually caught myself thinking if the #$%* hits the fan we can sink the ferry to keep you all out
We all have gardens and we all love each other

Well, the potential for anything to happen is there, certainly.  The balloon could go up and the veneer of civilization is thin indeed.  I remember the energy crises of the '70 very well.  I remember gas stations only open for a couple of hours a day before they ran out of gas.  I remember sitting in line for two hours for gas, only to have the station stop selling as I got to the pump.  I remember shouting matches at the pumps, and stories of fights and shootings.  I remember the price of gas escalating rapidly every day.  And I remember politicians pulling ideas out of their anal orifices on how to rectify (pun intended) things.

Because of all of this, the mood was grim.  According to predictions at the time, we should all be huddling in the cold and dark right now.  There were going to be worldwide energy wars.  Lots of gloom and doom.  Of course, just like the ice age many scientists were convinced was around the corner, none of it happened.  We are being manipulated now just like then.  I don't know how it is going to end up, but as usual, it won't be how most of us expect.

None of this is to say that people shouldn't be prepared to fend for themselves for a time.  Natural disasters such as Katrina teaches us that.

+2 when the price is where they think we will stand for and continue using at the currrent rate, you will see pleant y of fuel. The price will move down to a point we will think it is a 'bargin" and stay there until greed sets in. That is what they did in the 1970's. My late cousin the Gangster told me the gas would come months before it happened. He had friends that ran the tank farms. The real gangsters are in the board rooms.   

[CaféElite]

Atlas shrugged... read it and live it.

Our country will be at an end when the politicians are bribing us w/ our own money... if you have the oppertunity to receive goods\services w/o providing goods\service then you might want to think twice.

[tortelvis]

Anyone else listening to NPR this morning? The opinion was expressed that it's not just oil companies and auto makers to blame for the ever increasing cost of oil. Speculators have their role to play as well. This was also brought up recently in the case of the skyrocketing price of rice and other foodstuffs. In the Phillipines the government was raiding warehouses where speculators were stockpiling supplies. We have seen this on a lesser scale whenever there has been a perceived shortage of any goods. People rush to lay in supplies thereby creating a genuine shortage and also driving the prices up.

[donny]

No one is claiming we can drill our way out of the energy situation.
However, they want to build a new oil refinery in nowhere South Dakota.
People from all over the USA came to fight the construction. The first step passed narrowly.
It will be fought tooth and nail.
They want to drill for oil in a huge field in ND which will be hard fought.
If one can't drill or refine oil out in the nowhere Dakota's, where can oil be produced?

[Gordon]

No one is claiming we can drill our way out of the energy situation.
However, they want to build a new oil refinery in nowhere South Dakota.
People from all over the USA came to fight the construction. The first step passed narrowly.
It will be fought tooth and nail.
They want to drill for oil in a huge field in ND which will be hard fought.
If one can't drill or refine oil out in the nowhere Dakota's, where can oil be produced?

Did anyone ask the protesters how they all got out there to middle-of-nowhere South Dakota? 

[edbikerii]

I'd tend to favor allowing the drilling and refining, but I'd love to know some details about the concerns before reaching a decision.  Perhaps the drilling and refining can be done without major negative impact if enough care is taken.  Things don't always need to be "us against them".

No one is claiming we can drill our way out of the energy situation.
However, they want to build a new oil refinery in nowhere South Dakota.
People from all over the USA came to fight the construction. The first step passed narrowly.
It will be fought tooth and nail.
They want to drill for oil in a huge field in ND which will be hard fought.
If one can't drill or refine oil out in the nowhere Dakota's, where can oil be produced?

[edbikerii]

Oh, of course!  A few pages back I posted links to the financials of Exxon, BP and Shell.  The best of the bunch only gets a 12% profit margin, so they are clearly not the ones benefitting from the high oil prices.

Just a couple weeks ago T. Boone Pickens started squawking about how oil was going to go to $200 a barrel.  Don't you think he's got a huge bet riding on that happening?  Guys like him buying up oil futures is driving up the prices.  Speculators, weak dollar, and increased demand from India and China (probably in that order, too).

Does anyone else remember in the late 1980's when T. Boone Pickens threatened that he was going to take over Newmont Mining Corporation?  He squawked about it for months, and then when the price was nice and high, he canceled his bid, sold off all of his shares, locked in a hefty profit, and sent the stock tumbling.  He ruined many other speculators that time.  I wonder how things are going to pan out this time.

Anyone else listening to NPR this morning? The opinion was expressed that it's not just oil companies and auto makers to blame for the ever increasing cost of oil. Speculators have their role to play as well. This was also brought up recently in the case of the skyrocketing price of rice and other foodstuffs. In the Phillipines the government was raiding warehouses where speculators were stockpiling supplies. We have seen this on a lesser scale whenever there has been a perceived shortage of any goods. People rush to lay in supplies thereby creating a genuine shortage and also driving the prices up.

[BobbyR]

Oh, of course!  A few pages back I posted links to the financials of Exxon, BP and Shell.  The best of the bunch only gets a 12% profit margin, so they are clearly not the ones benefitting from the high oil prices.

Just a couple weeks ago T. Boone Pickens started squawking about how oil was going to go to $200 a barrel.  Don't you think he's got a huge bet riding on that happening?  Guys like him buying up oil futures is driving up the prices.  Speculators, weak dollar, and increased demand from India and China (probably in that order, too).

Does anyone else remember in the late 1980's when T. Boone Pickens threatened that he was going to take over Newmont Mining Corporation?  He squawked about it for months, and then when the price was nice and high, he canceled his bid, sold off all of his shares, locked in a hefty profit, and sent the stock tumbling.  He ruined many other speculators that time.  I wonder how things are going to pan out this time.

Anyone else listening to NPR this morning? The opinion was expressed that it's not just oil companies and auto makers to blame for the ever increasing cost of oil. Speculators have their role to play as well. This was also brought up recently in the case of the skyrocketing price of rice and other foodstuffs. In the Phillipines the government was raiding warehouses where speculators were stockpiling supplies. We have seen this on a lesser scale whenever there has been a perceived shortage of any goods. People rush to lay in supplies thereby creating a genuine shortage and also driving the prices up.

You may actually be onto something. Since the Mortaged back securities tanked, the hedge funds are looking for higher returns. I had a friend that was an oil trader and he thinks these novices can tank the market. The oil companies don;t care if the market tanks since they never lose either way. The Governments will reign in the speculators since the Worldwide powers control things cannot have large economies go unstable. That takes money out of their pockets which they will not stand for.

[edbikerii]

Yes, Bobby, and now in addition to hedge funds there are even exchange traded oil funds that are profiting much more than the "evil big oil companies", without producing a damned thing.  So, even the average, uninformed, Joe can speculate on the future price of oil, and help drive the prices up.

Oh, of course!  A few pages back I posted links to the financials of Exxon, BP and Shell.  The best of the bunch only gets a 12% profit margin, so they are clearly not the ones benefitting from the high oil prices.

Just a couple weeks ago T. Boone Pickens started squawking about how oil was going to go to $200 a barrel.  Don't you think he's got a huge bet riding on that happening?  Guys like him buying up oil futures is driving up the prices.  Speculators, weak dollar, and increased demand from India and China (probably in that order, too).

Does anyone else remember in the late 1980's when T. Boone Pickens threatened that he was going to take over Newmont Mining Corporation?  He squawked about it for months, and then when the price was nice and high, he canceled his bid, sold off all of his shares, locked in a hefty profit, and sent the stock tumbling.  He ruined many other speculators that time.  I wonder how things are going to pan out this time.

Anyone else listening to NPR this morning? The opinion was expressed that it's not just oil companies and auto makers to blame for the ever increasing cost of oil. Speculators have their role to play as well. This was also brought up recently in the case of the skyrocketing price of rice and other foodstuffs. In the Phillipines the government was raiding warehouses where speculators were stockpiling supplies. We have seen this on a lesser scale whenever there has been a perceived shortage of any goods. People rush to lay in supplies thereby creating a genuine shortage and also driving the prices up.

You may actually be onto something. Since the Mortaged back securities tanked, the hedge funds are looking for higher returns. I had a friend that was an oil trader and he thinks these novices can tank the market. The oil companies don;t care if the market tanks since they never lose either way. The Governments will reign in the speculators since the Worldwide powers control things cannot have large economies go unstable. That takes money out of their pockets which they will not stand for.

[Rocking-M]

I don't think Ed's oil post past the sniff test. Smells like #$%* you know.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9854784/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8646744/

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/17/business/rnrgoilcos.php

[DarkRider]

Getting back to the original idea at hand.....
I have seen some of those lil kei vehicles here too...namely the lil honda trucks...

[edbikerii]

RM, yes, the oil companies do make money.  Surely you don't think they should do all that work for nothing?  That would be be communism, wouldn't it?  Yes, everybody wants to blame someone, and the "evil oil companies" are the obvious scapegoat.

The highly emotionally-charged problem of Americans suffering high gas prices just doesn't prove that the oil companies are doing something wrong.  Let's not forget that the oil companies employ lots and lots of Americans, and they provide us with every ounce of gasoline that we need.  That is a monumental, and extremely expensive task.

So let's jump right into the facts, and put the emotions aside:

Exxon's Profit Margin is 10.85%.  See for yourself:  http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=XOM
Compare that to Chase, at 21.95%. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=JPM
Or Oracle, at 24.21% http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=ORCL
Or even Colgate at 12.02% http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=CL selling soap and toothpaste.

Yes, some politicians are fond of using the emotionally-charged phrase "record oil profits".  I know I earned slightly more in 2007 than I did in 2006, so technically that makes it a "record" for me.  However, the dollar was worth less, and my costs were much higher, so it is very misleading to call my 2007 salary a "record".

Oh, and let's not forget that if you put additional taxes on the oil companies like some politicians are calling for, guess who will pay them?  YES, YOU GUESSED IT!!!  The taxes will get passed right back down to the consumer, just like in any other business.

Yes, the oil companies are some of the biggest companies in the world, too.  Well, how many gallons of gas do you use every week?  Multiply that by 300,000,000 Americans.  How much gasoline do you think your supermarket burns every week shipping in food so you can eat?  Multiply that by a few hundred thousand supermarkets in America.  Think about just how monumental the task of getting all that gas to us is.

I don't think Ed's oil post past the sniff test. Smells like #$%* you know.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9854784/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8646744/

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/17/business/rnrgoilcos.php

[BobbyR]

Bob:
 
You may like this one as well.
 
Willard



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Francis, Eleanor [mailto:EFrancis@hvbank.com]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:35 PM
To: Francis, Willard
Subject: FW: Oil Crisis


 

 





 
 
 
 
Garfield on the oil crisis

A lot of folks can't understand how we came
to have an oil shortage here in our country.
~~~
Well, there's a very simple answer.
~~~
Nobody bothered to check the oil.
~~~
We just didn't know we were getting low.
~~~
The reason for that is purely geographical.
~~~
Our OIL is located in
~~~
ALASKA
~~~
California
~~~
Coastal Florida
~~~
Coastal Louisiana
~~~
Kansas
~~~
Oklahoma
~~~
Pennsylvania
and
Texas
~~~
Our
DIPSTICKS
are located in
Washington , DC!!!
?
Any Questions???
NO? Didn't think So.