Topic: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!

[BobbyR]

I live in NY and we had had a helmet law for the 30 someting years I have been riding. I have no choice. I do live 20 minutes from Connecticut which is a helmet optional State. I still wear my helmet, it seems natural. I wear a full face and i adjust the visor height depending on speed. I started open face so I like a bit of wind in my face.

One observation is that the younger guys especially on sportbikes wear helmets - thy many times drive like idiots so it hardly matters. On traditional bike I seem to notice that older guys on big twins go helmetless.

I believe in Florida you must declare yourself a no helmet rider which is coded on your license. You are required to carry a disability policy and sign a waiver that the State is not obligated to provide care for you. Sounds cold, but freedom always has a price. I would support a choice like that in NY.  

[Gordon]

One observation is that the younger guys especially on sportbikes wear helmets - thy many times drive like idiots so it hardly matters.
 

It's different around here.  I see a lot of sport bike rider with helmets, but I hardly ever see them wearing the helmet.  It's usually attached to the helmet lock on the side of the passenger seat, but it always matches the bike!

[Jonesy]

I like how my wife puts it: "No one was ever in a bike accident and said, 'Damn.. I wished I hadn't been wearing a helmet!'"

[Joel]

I believe in Florida you must declare yourself a no helmet rider which is coded on your license. You are required to carry a disability policy and sign a waiver that the State is not obligated to provide care for you. Sounds cold, but freedom always has a price. I would support a choice like that in NY. 

That seems like a good solution to me.  If the your choice doesn't have any effect on others, there's no reason it shouldn't be your choice.

I'm one of the people annoyed by loud pipes.  I don't really mind them driving by during the day, but it gets annoying in the middle of the night.  Common courtesy could take care of that but it usually doesn't happen.   I believe Indiana has a noise limit for automobiles but not for motorcycles.  Seems backward at the very least.  I'm not sure why there isn't a single limit for both.

[BobbyR]

One observation is that the younger guys especially on sportbikes wear helmets - thy many times drive like idiots so it hardly matters.
 

It's different around here.  I see a lot of sport bike rider with helmets, but I hardly ever see them wearing the helmet.  It's usually attached to the helmet lock on the side of the passenger seat, but it always matches the bike!

Here I think wearing a helmet is a fashion statement. There is something I see some guys just pulling the bottom of a full face just over their haireline with the rest sticking up. This is on city streets. Odd but true.

[Johnie]

Well, I have been riding since 1969 and wear a helmet 100% of the time.  Any rider on my bike wears a helmet.  My wife and I have been riding together since high school and she also wears a helmet - no matter what the temp is outside.  I agree in letting the rider choose to wear it or not and am not in favor in having the state decide that for you - freedom to do what you want regarding helmet use is fine.  I know that if I am on my way to the pavement I will fair better with that on my head.  I am blessed that I have never been in that situation but feel better protected if I am.  Again, just my opinion.  That parade poll as of today 6-29-08 shows 71% not in favor of a helmet law

[hoodellyhoo]

I'm not entirely sure where I stand on the issue. I guess I am pro-choice. I always wear a helmet, 99% of the time it's a full face. I bought it purely for the safety aspect.

That being said, I can understand why one wouldn't wear a helmet. It's the same reason dogs liking sticking their heads out the car window. Someties it's just nice to just have that feeling of complete freedom; to have the wind blowing all over your head. There's just something about it.

Even so, I suppose that then someone could argue that they enjoy the freedom of driving without a seatbelt (not that they're intrusive or anything). I guess I'm just thinking that if seatbelts and helmets are their respective transportation equivalents, and it is a law to wear a seatbelt, then why not make everyone wear a helmet too?

[Ichiban 4]

Okay..Here is some other statistical stuff that I've been keeping around for a while.  Kinda concerns me because of the trends they're showing.

First off..note the real biggie from my first post: a 300% increase nationally in fatalities with riders over 50 over past 10 years! [Also to clarify on a point here:the 42% death rate in bike accidents WAS for riders not wearing helmets].

From 1997 to 2004 the number of registered bikes in the U.S. rose 40%..but the number of motorcycle deaths rose about 90% (from 2,116 in '97 to 4,008 in '04) per year.

Closer to home here in Colorado: we have the 8th highest rate of motorcycle deaths in the nation.  Colorado is also the only state among the top 10 for motorcycle deaths..that does not require helmets..and only one of four states without any mandatory helmet laws (again, this from 2006 statistics).  By implication, the statistics also show that in the past 10 years actual deaths have steadily increased at a rate of about 40% per year, which in 2006 was around 71 people per year in Colorado.

Not many people some may say..but if narrowed down to just the  biker population in Colorado..becomes more significant.

I can appreciate the sentiments expressed about "freedom to wear..or not wear".  It's nice to just hop on for a quick tuning, mechanical check w/o having to helmet-up, etc.  On other hand, when riding in California for many years where helmets were/are mandatory..it just didn't seem like that big of a deal to don the 'ol skid lid before riding.

Seems to boil down to perennial issue of: "I know what I want/am capable of..don't need no stinkin others to tell me what to do"..or.. that you never know what the other guy might do.  So when do there need to be some rules?  Ironically (as mentioned previously) when the poor sap that ends up in diapers and feeding tubes for the rest of life can't pay..then the rest of us DO.  That's the sort of catch 22 that this issue of helmet use eventually comes to..seems to me.  The Dept. of Transportation estimates that nationally about 700 deaths per year could be prevented by use of helmets.

Just some more food for thought.

Ichi

[Gordon]

I guess I'm just thinking that if seatbelts and helmets are their respective transportation equivalents, and it is a law to wear a seatbelt, then why not make everyone wear a helmet too?

But helmets and seat belts aren't respective transportation equivalents. 

[Frankenkit]

I am not so concerned with the flying off of my bike at interstate speeds and my helmet saving me.  Small injuries from low speed accidents can be prevented too.  My helmet my save my brain sometime, but I like that it may save my face from any number of small injuries.  I guess that can be said for the jacket, gloves, pants and shoes too.  I just feel better wearing it all.  I makes me cringe seeing people riding in cut-offs, and flip flops.  To each his own. 

Here, hear!

My gripe with helmets is the stupid novelty helmets that are sold at biker shops and leather shops, where they *say* "not a protective helmet" but people wear them anyway.  I had a bitter taste of irony going to a local biker shop where they had a "downed rider fund" going for a guy who crashed and his helmet failed to protect him- he was expected at best to be a vegetable.  Very sad, the employees knew the guy---- and yet, in the back room, they still had those retarded novelty helmets for sale. 

working at a trauma center hospital, I could go both ways on this issue.  I always wear my modular fullface helmet, and that said, it seriously breaks my heart in ways I can't impart in words to see kids my age, or guys with their kids visiting, laid up in the hospital, stitches across their heads, stents in their skulls to relieve the fluid pressure of their massive head wounds (or people busted in other ways, road rash to the max, etc...) and know it could have been prevented to a degree- and that they may never be the same again.  ...and those are the ones that aren't in the bodybags yet.

On the other hand, why not allow people to risk their own lives and create widows/widowers etc?  It's better for the hospital business, I suppose. 

[Buber]

On the other hand, why not allow people to risk their own lives and create widows/widowers etc?  It's better for the hospital business, I suppose. 

True, and well said, hovewer... Who's paying the bill for those injured "vegetable state" people? This is the catch. If you drive withouth the helmet AND have an accident, YOU should bear the consequences, financially as well. And here comes a case of a peniless person, who would be forced to die, because doens't have money to pay.. It's all more complicated, I agree, but the general feeling is there - if this is a fun activity to you , you must pay the price of it.


P.S. To me it's purely academic discussion. In my place you WOULDN'T catch a cold only 2 months in the year, driving later than 9am. because at 7am it's too cold to go without the helmet (at proper speeds of course ). Not mentioning the bugs, as well...

[gregimotis]

Top causes of death in the United states (2004):
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005110.html


- All unintentional deaths by trauma = 112,012

- Heart disease                             = 652,486
- Cerebrovascular (stroke)              = 150,074
- Diabetes                                    = 73,134

Subtract trauma deaths not related to motorcycles, then subtract the number of heart attacks, strokes, and diabetic debilitation not related to being fat, eating fat, and sitting on your arse all day.


The numbers for the latter are still going vastly outwiegh the former and expose the specious nature of laws based on helmets and 'what your lifestyle costs the rest of us'.

Pass a helmet law based on 'cost to society' and you should also pass a similar law aimed at people who weigh 230+ pounds while measuring under 6'00".  That would include FREAKIN' HALF THIS COUNTRY AND THREE QUARTERS OF THE PEOPLE IN CONGRESS!!!


In conclusion:  Helmets are good, helmet laws protect people from foolishness, helmet laws are not the most effective way (or even the third most effective way) to reduce public health care expenses.

[snarferer]

I believe in freedom of choice and do what you want with your own life and all of that.
 
When MY tax dollars pay for your hospital bills because you're a vegetable because you didn't wear a helmet, not okay.  If you choose not to wear a helmet, please be able to afford 100% of your health care costs if you become a vegetable, or just have a family member pull the plug.


Harsh, yes, but I wear a full face helmet anytime I straddle my bike.  I don't care if its 100 degrees outside like it was the other week.  I even feel weird pulling it out of the garage to warm her up without one on.

[gregimotis]

All motorcycle should have factory installed roll cages with air bags and safety glass and an extra set of tires.  This would cut the injury and death statistics for motorcycles to a similar level as automobiles... which should be limited to 55MPH.  Like in the eighties.  Also, alcohol should be prohibited.  Everywhere.

I'm sick and tired of paying for other people's medical bills.





Now, about life jackets...

[kpier883]

I believe in freedom of choice and do what you want with your own life and all of that.
 
When MY tax dollars pay for your hospital bills because you're a vegetable because you didn't wear a helmet, not okay.  If you choose not to wear a helmet, please be able to afford 100% of your health care costs if you become a vegetable, or just have a family member pull the plug.


Harsh, yes, but I wear a full face helmet anytime I straddle my bike.  I don't care if its 100 degrees outside like it was the other week.  I even feel weird pulling it out of the garage to warm her up without one on.

What if someone is wearing a helmet but crashes hard enough to be a vegetable for the rest of his/her life?  Apparently that is ok?

I guess I could make the same argument about anyone stupid enough to not be able to afford 100% coverage if they (fill in the blank with any of the following):

• riding a motorcycle
  being a pilot
  snow skiing
  riding with a helmet
  riding without a helmet
  

[CharlieT]

Been around bikes and racing since 1965. Between myself and my son, we have three helmets retired from us and sitting on the shelf for having done their job. Have you ever watched MotoGP, world/AMA superbike races, etc?? Ever seen pics of Eddie Lawson, Wayne Rainey, Freddie Spencer, Carl Foggarty, etc racing without a helmet? Ever seen footage of a road racer going down at highspeed??

Worst injury I got racing was a broken nose and some facila road rash. ONly reason for that was that it was in the days before full face helmets!

Can a helmet cause/worsen an injury? In some small select specific instances, yes. Most typically it can cause neck injury. Can you be killed by a head injury wearing the best helmet money can buy? Of course you can.

Most safety gear is about gambling, playing the odds. Can you be killed by a seat belt? Yes you can, have seen victims my self. Or are you more likely to survive an accident if you are wearing a seatbelt? Yes you are. No 100% certainty, of course, but we are playing the odds here.

The thing I always get a hoot out of are some of the cruiser types in there "uniforms". I've had a number of debates with some of them about safety that always makes me laugh. They don't want to wear a helmet or they got a $19.95 pudding bowl worthless piece of plastic. Yet when I point out there full blakc leather costume, I get this wouldn't ride without muh leathers. Don't want to get no road rash, so they wear the leathers for safety. So I generally ask, so you place more value on the skin on your a$$ than you do on that brain in your cranium?? that usually stumps them and makes the answer to the question obvious.

[BobbyR]

Well put Charley!!!

[TwoTired]

So, assume we agree that if you don't do everything possible to prevent injury or becoming a vegetable, that society should not shoulder any financial responsibility.

We'll start with requiring helmets/seat belts.  Because, when MY tax dollars pay for your hospital bills because you didn't wear your Helmet or seatbelt it is not ok.  The law is, therefore, justified. But, is this enough?

Statistically, motorcycle riders in general are more prone to injury and vegetable-like aftermath than auto drivers.  Perhaps, in order to save society medical bill money, we should also ban motorcycles?  Because, when MY tax dollars pay for your hospital bill because you decided to ride a motorcycle instead of a much safer auto, it is not ok.  The law is, therefore,  justified.  Is this enough?

Statistically, auto drivers in general are more prone to injury and vegetable-like aftermath than users of public transportation.  Perhaps in order to save society medical bill money, we should also ban automobiles?  Because, when MY tax dollars pay for your hospital bill because you decided to drive your own car instead of using much safer public transportation, it is not ok.  The law is, therefore, justified.  Is this enough?

We can progressively apply the same metric to a number of general populace unnecessary items, such as boats, bicycles, skateboards, rollerblades, skis, snowboards, ATVs, airplanes, gliders, swimming pools, and the 4 wheel red wagon.  All in due time, of course.

The progression and expansion of laws is an extension of one part of society telling another how the right way to live is.  Helmet laws, seatbelt laws, infant car seat laws, etc., were wrong in that it curtails freedom in an arbitrary way dictated by a small portion of the populace.  In all these cases, commerce and government both benefited by increased income at taxpayer expense, either direct, or indirect, by the passage of these laws.  The government further benefits as it limits the number of lost taxpayers, looks as though they "care" about joe average for political advantage, and increases revenue from penalties garnered from infractions.  It also instills the "government-knows-better than-the-individual" attitude, and increases the number of people who lean towards "dependence" on government dictates/guidance, in a freedom curtailing/incremental elimination spiral.

FYI.  I wear a full helmet 99.9% of the time.  (I'll drive around the block without one to listen to the machine's sounds for diagnosis purposes.)  It is California law that I must wear a helmet with my flip flops, can't be barefoot 
(just kidding about me wearing flip-flops). 

Having said that, I would wear a helmet and use seat belts, as appropriate, even if there weren't laws requiring me to do so.  I think it improves the survival and quality of life odds, so I can pay taxes far into the future.

Cheers,

[jameseb444]

When I rode dirt bikes in the late eighties and early nineties it wasn't unusual to find guys riding in the woods without a helmet. I rode in the most rockiest and low tree branch trails around and a lot of the times I was the only one with a helmet. A helmet saved me when I did my superman imitation on a trail and broke a few ribs but the tree stump didn't hurt the head at all. There was a kid from my old neighborhood that was wearing a helmet when he hit a telephone poll on a quad and now he's brain damaged. My neighbor crashed his Harley doing 70 mph without a helmet and he survived with just a broken nose and wrist. As far as myself, I always wear a helmet. I guess this makes me pro choice as far as helmets go.

[CharlieT]

There are generally acceptable actions taken by the gov't for the overall welfare of the general public that few will argue with (yeah, there is always someone who will argue). Forced isolation of certain infectious diseases, for example. How much more restrictive of someones freedom than to forcibly, against there will, lock them up in a hospital isolation room. Yet for the most part, we find that acceptable to prevent physical harm to the general population.

The issue with helmets, seatbelts, etc is that forcing their use is not related to protecting the general public from physical harm, but to prevent financial burdens on certain public and private interests. As with most things, its all about the money.

[tramp]

if you don't wear a helmet shame on you
did evil kenevil (sp ck) wear a helmet?

[my78k]

I wear a full face all the time. Partly because helemts are the law up here and partly because of safety. I am a huge believer in protecting my brain.

I wear the full face for 2 reasons...first it will actually stay on in a crash (according to my MSF instructor the stats are skewed in how many riders are wearing helmets since alot of the 1/2 helmets come off in a crash and therefor can not be recorded as actually wearing a helmet) and partly because I hate the taste of bugs at high speeds!! I have to clean (scrape!) my visor after every ride and really don't understand the open face riders....wiping my visor is one thing but combing dead flies and bees out of my goatee is quite another!!

Dennis

[snarferer]

don't forget the fact that a full face also protects your chin and jaw area, which is "supposed" to total somewhere around 15% likelyhood of being an impact spot of your general head region (never trust stats....but I figure, what the heck, why not be even safer?)

[mark]

..... how about old statistics?....

This person's research would suggest that 45% of wrecks involve a face-plant.

... I hate the taste of bugs at high speeds!! ...

... and it kinda smarts when a good-sized beetle smacks ya on the cheek.....

 

[tortelvis]

I have heard it said that a large percentage of deaths while wearing a helmet was caused by the base of the helmet breaking the neck. Also they claim that you cut down on your field of vision and the effect they have on hearing. Personally I never ride without a lid, full face for me. I think it has more to do with image although the old "it's my life my decision, they're too hot, restrict hearing and vision, blah blah blah is trotted out. You wanna take the risk it's your life, but please don't try to convince the rest of us to ditch our helmets. Personal choice works both ways!