Author Topic: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project  (Read 1292 times)

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Offline dnewman417

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New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« on: July 02, 2008, 03:55:29 PM »
Hello.  My name is Dave.  I live in San Mateo, CA and have been riding bikes since 1994.  My main bike is a 1997 Honda GL1500C (Valkyrie) - a great bike by Honda.  My project bike is a 1978 Honda CB550K.  The project is going well, but I need some help on the engine.  Can you run the 1978 without the airbox?  I've been told no.  Any suggestions?

Offline mystic_1

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2008, 04:05:34 PM »
Welcome :)

Ha ha, well, in response to your air box question, go to the search page and type in "pods" and check out the controversy!  lol.

The answer I guess is that you can do anything given enough time, money, and determination.  Now the question is why do you ask?  :)

cheers
mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline Johnie

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 04:07:52 PM »
Welcome to the boards Dave.  I do not know why you could not run the bike without the airbox?  But do you mean drive it around town like that or do you mean just to see if it runs in the shop?  2 different scenerios there.  I would not drive it without some sort of air cleaner on there unless you want to smuk up the carbs with dirt.  I have the 750 so I will let the 550 guys handle this one for you.  Oh, we like pics... ;D
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 04:09:48 PM by Johnie »
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

Offline dnewman417

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 04:14:20 PM »
Hey guys!  I want to move all of the electronics and battery to the cowling behind the seat.  The need for pods is merely esthetics, I'd like to have a clear visual shot through the frame.  I've tried to synchronize the carbs without the airbox to no avail.  A local "expert" told me that it is impossible to run the 78 without the airbox.  He suggested that I try earlier carbs such as the 77's or 76's as they will run with pods.

Dave

Offline mystic_1

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 04:18:49 PM »
OK, so the 78's probably have CV-style carbs.  I would NOT recommend trying to modify the induction system on any bike with CV carbs, retuning them can be a real nightmare due to their nature.  I wouldn't call it impossible, but it's not easy that's for sure.

Your mechanic sounds like he knows what he's talking about, earlier carbs would be easier to make work with pods.  Still not easy, but more do-able.  Plan on changing the jets a few times and fiddling with the needle jets to find the right tuning for your setup.

So, sounds like you're aiming for an open-frame style cafe?  What other design goals do you have?

and yes, we love pics :)

cheers
mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline dnewman417

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 04:34:34 PM »
Wow, what a forum.  I've already received some great info.  Thanks.  Mystic_1 is correct, they are CV's.  I will try to rejet and reset the carbs per some info from Two Tired that I found on the pods v. airbox thread.  Mystic, I'm trying for that minimal look.  Clubman bars, no wires or cable showing, seat cowl, open-frame, large fuel tank, etc.  The only thing holding me up right now is how the engine runs.  I am not the greatest mechanic and am contemplating sending the engine and carbs to a shop for a rebuild.  Any such places in the SF Bay Area?

Offline cbass*gxc

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 06:57:36 AM »
Welcome to the board Newman. I have your same bike and it is not that hard to run without airbox on these bikes.  You just need to rejet them.  I ran for about 3 weeks with no box or pods until I got mine in and it ran great.  Now I am running pods with 110 main jets and it seems to run pretty good.  If you are running pods with stock exhaust you may try 105's. 

I was like you when I bought mine back in November, very engine illiterate and didnt know if I could do the work myself but I figured for the $250 I spent on the bike I might as well try.  Anyways long story short I rebuilt the top end of my motor and rebuilt my carbs by myself and everything seemed to turn out fine.  There were a few long nights, a little elbow grease, a lot of alcohol, and a couple of cuss words but it has all come together and I have a bike.

Also if TT (aka Lloyd) tells you something, listen!  That guys is a walking motorcycle dictionary.  He seems to know just about everything about these 550's and then some.

Again welcome to the board,
Jay

PS If you want to try some 105's in your bike let me know I have a set that I purchased along with some 110's from another member here you could have for cheap!


Offline dnewman417

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2008, 08:01:36 AM »
Thanks cbass.  I appreciate your view on this project.  I will take the 105s and the 110s - let me know how much for the jets and the shipping and I will send you a check.  Hopefully, you might have other tips for me?  Thanks.  d

Offline mystic_1

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2008, 08:06:30 AM »
If you don't already know how to do this, search up on how to do "plug chops" as this will help you get your mixture dialed in properly.  Remember that air/fuel ratio can be different at different throttle settings.

My main tip would be, make sure all your other systems (ignition/charging/exhaust) are dialed in before you start experimenting with jetting.

cheers

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline TwoTired

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2008, 10:14:11 AM »
If you still have the stock carbs, they should have a stamp on the side PD 46 A (or C).
These are mechanical slide carbs, not CV type.  No CB550 SOHC4 came from Honda with CV carbs.

These carbs will "run" without the air box.  But not well, without changes to fuel metering within the carbs.  The filter change may be cosmetic to you, but it is not to the engine.

The carbs had "lean burn" settings with the stock air box AND the exhaust, that were both matched to the engine needs.  Changing either of these items will demand alterations to the carbs, as they will run even leaner, to the detriment of performance and engine health.

To witt:  The idle circuits will be too lean.  The slow jet is smaller than the 78 model (#38 vs #42), though the float height is higher.  It may be possible to compensate with other than stock settings of the Idle Mixture screws.  As this bike has no accelerator pump, this setting will determine how well the bike responds for low RPM with a simple throttle twist.  If too lean, the bike will stumble when you grab a handfull of throttle. 
You will likely have to change the main slide needle height to compensate for the loss of carb throat vacuum (effect 1/4 to 3/4 throttle positions), and the main jet will have to be increased above the stock #90, again to compensate for the exhaust and air filter changes.  It's possible, that to get it running really well at all throttle positions that the needle taper would need changing, too.

If you are willing to commit to the many hours and recursive testing needed to re-tune your carbs properly for the cosmetic changes you desire, then proceed, as it will be quite a learning experience for you.  But, this is NOT a simple parts swap endeavor.  You will need a test track or dyno sessions to get the carbs sorted to your proposed changes.

I'd like to know what your plans are for the finished bike.  If simply a show piece, you can probably use the carbs as is.  If you also want street performance on twisty/winding roads, then carb details need to be addressed.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline dnewman417

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2008, 12:54:36 PM »
My thanks to Mystic and Two Tired for the carburetor information.  I understand your comments and will try to make the proper changes.  I want the bike to run well and have a certain look - the proper running of the engine being my first priority.  In addition to running pods (I have Uni's), I want to change the exhaust system to a 4-into-1 header with a can. I realize that each change demands changes to the carburetion, but am I correct in my understanding that you are saying to make all of the changes and then adjust the carbs?  It makes sense.  So, I intend to get the engine running with the stock exhaust and airbox before I pull it to mak the mods to the frame, tank, electronics and seat.  Is this a good plan?

Thanks again,

dnewman417

Offline mystic_1

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2008, 01:02:52 PM »
My thanks to Mystic and Two Tired for the carburetor information.  I understand your comments and will try to make the proper changes.  I want the bike to run well and have a certain look - the proper running of the engine being my first priority.  In addition to running pods (I have Uni's), I want to change the exhaust system to a 4-into-1 header with a can. I realize that each change demands changes to the carburetion, but am I correct in my understanding that you are saying to make all of the changes and then adjust the carbs?  It makes sense.  So, I intend to get the engine running with the stock exhaust and airbox before I pull it to mak the mods to the frame, tank, electronics and seat.  Is this a good plan?

Thanks again,

dnewman417



Sounds like a plan to me.  Always good to begin from a known starting point.

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline TwoTired

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Re: New to sohc4; 1978 CB550K Project
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2008, 05:06:43 PM »
So, I intend to get the engine running with the stock exhaust and airbox before I pull it to mak the mods to the frame, tank, electronics and seat.  Is this a good plan?

Yes, it is a good plan.  Do check that your exhaust is sound, without leaks. 
You could even take some benchmark 1/4 mile times.  Later with the changes, you should be able to tell when you made to right improvements.  Such info would also be helpful to others on this forum.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.