Author Topic: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?  (Read 4943 times)

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wornknobby3

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can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« on: July 04, 2008, 07:13:55 PM »
hey guys, havn't been on here in a long time, well i got the 78 cb750k back out and i'm ready to finish the old girl. now i was looking into getting some new sprockets and a chain, and i saw the 530 conversion sprockets on dennisk kirk, but they only have them for the rear, the fronts are all for 630 chains. where could i find a 530 front does anyone know?

i mean besides weight, would there really be any advantage to chaging chain size or should i just take the easy route and order the 630 set-up?

Offline 754

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2008, 07:44:03 PM »
Buy a 76 and earlier front CB 750 sprocket..
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2008, 07:45:00 PM »
the front sprocket from a '76 and prior won't fit a '77 or '78.  Here's a nice discussion:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=26211.0


.....and I'm interested in doing the same thing.  I have a '77 I'd like to put a 530 on and in the above link, Eldar has done it!
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 07:47:11 PM by GammaFlat »
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Offline 754

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2008, 07:53:16 PM »
I did one back in the 80's, took me a while to realize the sprockets were not in line. use the 77/78 rear carrier and a 530 should bolt on.. just the front cant use the locking tab..
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2008, 08:02:33 PM »
The sprockets are apparently quite different. 

Here's a '76 front (530):



and here's a '77 front (630):

« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 08:10:42 PM by GammaFlat »
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Offline 754

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2008, 08:06:27 PM »
same spline, different lock..

 630 sprocket is thicker than a plain 530, but Honda 530 has a shoulder on each side..stronger..


 I had a thin 530 strip its splines and weld itself to the shaft.. which may have been oK, but it broke on the line next run..
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2008, 08:24:31 PM »


          Just curious, can you machine the 630 sprocket down to th size of the 530 sprocket, leaving the center of the sprocket in it's original thickness? ???  Haven't had ANY 750 experience myself and didn't even know that there was a difference between those years.
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2008, 08:25:13 PM »
If you are converting from a 630 to a 530, you'll need a retainer and two bolts to hold on the 530.  The retainer slides over the splines till it gets to slots in the splines... then it rotates slightly before the bolt holes line up with the threaded holes on the sprocket. 

« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 08:32:23 PM by GammaFlat »
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Offline 754

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2008, 08:29:38 PM »
If the spocket thickness is the same or shimmed to compensate, the sprocket shaft, cant tell and does not care what pitch you are using, or if there are 2 tapped holes not being used..

 The one I did was a 77 motor in a 72, and I put at least 5K on it..
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2008, 08:32:06 PM »
I just tried to fit my 530 sprocket on a '77 engine.  The output shaft is different on 77 / 78 relative to 76 and prior.  The 530 is actually thicker where it slides onto the shaft.  I'm not sure how this all gets resolved when you switch.  Maybe vendors need to know your type of output shaft regardless of the 530/630 option. ?!
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2008, 08:34:27 PM »


          Just curious, can you machine the 630 sprocket down to th size of the 530 sprocket, leaving the center of the sprocket in it's original thickness? ???  Haven't had ANY 750 experience myself and didn't even know that there was a difference between those years.

This link has a description of what you're talking about at the bottom of the page: 


http://www.z1enterprises.com/reference/chain630to530.aspx

The 77 output shaft is shorter and does not have the slot for the retainer... so I'm confused about what's required when switching to a 530 on a 77 or 78. 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 08:58:29 PM by GammaFlat »
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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2008, 02:34:51 AM »
You can always get one from this side of the pond - B&C Express in potterhanworth Lincoln will machine any sprocket to fit any splines - that's where I got my 520 made for the K3 engine....you can contact them through www.bandcexpress.co.uk

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wornknobby3

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2008, 02:48:51 AM »
yea i understand what you guys are saying about the older style sprockets having those retaining clips, my 93 XR600 has that set-up, along w/ many other Honda off-road enduro bikes.
 see what i'm wondering is how people have already done it? theres got to be someone out there who has done it that would just have an explanation. or do we all really need to go to sprocket specialists and have them custom make us ones?

Offline eurban

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2008, 06:16:49 AM »
Just go to www.sprocketspecialists.com and get their phone number.  Call them and tell the what you need.  They can provide and front and rear sprocket that will work fine.  I have a set on my 78K. . . . .

Offline dboblet

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2008, 07:04:05 AM »
I read somewhere about putting some kind of shim on the sprocket to make it line up properly.  My sprockets are already on order so I'll just have to see what I get.  I did specify the bike year ('78) and model (750F-SS) when I talked to the shop that placed the order...  The front sprockets were 'back ordered' and I'm still waiting. 

What's the deal with the alignment?  How do I tell if it's correct.  Am I reading right that I don't need any special adaptors to make it fit, I just have to leave out the locking tab?  Or will I have to add a shim to the engine side to make it fit properly???  I guess this will be gear manufacturer specific. 
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Offline 754

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2008, 07:24:14 AM »
To make it real simple,

On a 77 engine eith stock sprocket shaft, and retainer. I put on a pre 76 front sprocket, (either a stock, or thinner aftermarket), thern used the 77 retainer.

Just make sure the retainer works in same manner as the 77, either the bolt & washer pull it up tight or it does not, hust do it the same..

Had no trouble at all except that I ran a 72 hub, which THEN spaced  rearsprocket to one side.. not on issue on a 77/78 bike.

I did not read the link, but am pointing out that the earlier sprockets bolt on..
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2008, 07:06:38 AM »
I took some pics of the differences between '77 and pre-'77 for purposes of determining how 530s and 630s fit on them...
The left pic is a '77 - the right pic is a '74 (I think, certainly pre-'77).  Note that the '74 looks like a longer shaft but ends up at relatively the same position.  The cases are shaped differently. 



The following pics are of a '77 engine with a '77 sprocket (630) installed on the left (no bolt and washer) and a 530 sprocket on the right.  Note that the shoulder on the shaft and greater width of the 530 sprocket won't allow it to "flush up".  I'm not sure if this would be a problem or not.  You'd probably want to check your chain alignment in this case. 


The following are pics of a pre-'77 engine with both sprockets on - 630 on the left and 530 on the right.



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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2008, 09:01:56 AM »
Great pix, GF!
About the shoulder of the 530 Honda sprocket (above) that sticks out past the end of the shaft: it appears that the offset of parallellism to the rear sprocket would be 1/2 of the extra shoulder width of one side, or about 1mm. That part, at least, is well within factory alignment specs (4mm) for a new setup. Making the retainer washer fit might be a different issue, though.

And, that will raise this issue, to watch for: most "standard" sprockets have square-cut tooth tips, per ANSI requirements. But, on these bikes (for a variety of reasons), the teeth tips MUST be tapered. Honda sprockets are always cut with tapered tips. This greatly eases the entrance and exit misalignments (and related noise and wear) that occur from the high torques this mechanical system sees. The tapered tooth guides the chain to settle into the radius, rather than just crashing it into place. This puts more torque to the rear sprocket, and affects handling less, too (a slightly different, but related, topic).

745: how is the rear sprocket different on the 77-78 bikes? Is there a longer shoulder on the sprocket hub, to space the face outward?

On the original "K" series, the back side of the rear sprocket is flat, and the front is recessed to allow for the tin "grunge guide" to fit within the rear axle's span. So, when flipping the rear sprocket (to get that last 10,000 miles out of it), a spacer plate is needed (I've used a pair of cut-down "grunge guides" for years for this purpose) to space the teeth outward, and the "grunge guide" should be removed while the sprocket is run flipped. Technically, you can still run with the "grunge guide" in place, but the pinch points for flying debris can potentially get dicey then. I've done it with no ill effects. Honda does not recommend the "sprocket flip" practice, though, for obvious reasons.

Details on Honda's own sprockets:
1. Teeth are always tapered to ease side-loads and noise, reducing wear and increasing HP at the ground.
2. The shoulders are wider (speaking of 530 sprockets here) to prevent heating of the splines. This occurs under high-torque moments, when the engine is accelerating hard in the lower gears. Just 10% wider splines will reduce the heating almost 50%, and Honda's shoulders are almost 25% wider than the sprocket teeth. This issue stems from a smaller-than-recommended (by ANSI) shaft size for a 100 HP 530 sprocket setup like this one. (A relatively minor goof on the part of the 750 engine designers, who wanted to use 450 parts as much as possible...). The original 16T/45T sprockets on the K0 did NOT have shouldered sprockets up front, and the shaft wore quickly: I think there is even a Service Bulletin about this problem. (But, this is how we Honda wrenches got to see inside the 750 for the first time!)
3. Honda's sprockets do not grip the output shaft tightly, thus allowing room for lube to get inside. This occurs when the engine accels or decels, when the sprocket tilts toward the outside in opposite directions, wicking in some oil/grease from the area. If yours is rusty or dirty, clean this interface well, even apply a little grease, when reassembling.

Finally: what does a completed conversion look like on the K7/K8? Anyone have finished pix?
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Offline 754

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2008, 09:21:30 AM »
Basic difference the sprockets on the 77/78 were moved out approx 1/4 inch or 6mm.

So if you are running 77/78 engine use the 77/78 sprocket carrier (and spacer.. or on an earlier carrier space out the sprocket.

I never turned a rear sprocket, they last real long anyway.. and I learned the hard way from the fronts that an increase in the slop around the roller will wear a chain quickly.. espescially new chain on worn sprockets.

I will never run a cheap industrial chain again, it wore so fast that the chain actually rode up on the front sprocket and broke about 8 teeth off, plus I was splitting rollers..

So back to the front sprocket, it is well worth running the wider Honda ones, I have torn out the spline without them..

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the original question, the pics show what you have to do. You can grind the outer lip back on a Honda 530 sprocket or use a spacer, so that the mounting bolt and its washer does not dish in.
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: can anyone find 530 conversion FRONT sprockets?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2008, 10:11:34 AM »
try here, they have a nice range and extremely well made

http://www.dc-afam.com/dc-afam/uploads/documents/0.b.Sprockets06.pdf

And here you'll find all the dimensions so you can basicaly pick up what ever sprocket code fits you

http://www.dc-afam.com/dc-afam/uploads/documents/2.Tech_front.pdf

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« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 10:13:55 AM by turboguzzi »