Author Topic: Front end "bouncing"  (Read 2026 times)

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NE550

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Front end "bouncing"
« on: July 03, 2008, 09:10:14 PM »
I'm having trouble with my front end.  I replaced the fork springs and it still bounces.  If I let go of the bars it shimmies back and forth.  Tire is balanced.  Does anyone know what else I should check?

Thanks, Matt

Offline 750K2

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2008, 04:57:09 AM »
check your stem head bearings for loosness and wear.  then your front rim for true.  check your spoke tension.  get your front rim/tire balanced if necessary.

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2008, 05:28:23 AM »
I'm having trouble with my front end.  I replaced the fork springs and it still bounces.  If I let go of the bars it shimmies back and forth.  Tire is balanced.  Does anyone know what else I should check?

Thanks, Matt

+1 from 750K2. Too loose or too tight on the steering head bearings, and/or worn. Also, maybe too heavy on the fork oil or too much fork oil will cause them to lock up and not absorb the finer bumps translating into a bounce. You changed your springs, did you change the oil? Also, when you change springs they may have more mass than the stock springs, meaning that if you use the same amount of oil, there will be too much oil.

Modern day fork set up protocol is to measure down from the top to the oil level of the old set up, then use that measurement for the new set up., rather than measure the number of cc's. That will accommodate for the extra bulk of the aftemarket spring. If you're using a stock spring, no prob here. But experiment with the weight of the oil and the amount.
Ron
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline chrislib

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2008, 06:16:03 AM »
Another vote for stem bearings, also swingarm bushings,fork oil level, wheel trueness. I had the same bounce at 35mph and up, those things were all wrong on my bike, fixed it and now it`s very nice.
Chris...closet Idlefiddler
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Offline tbpmusic

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2008, 06:49:26 AM »
Wobble = Check your swingarm bushings.

ALL problems with "geometry" are manifested in the front end - because that's the part that has least resistance, it's designed to move freely.
So problems in the back will nearly always result in a front end wobble or other wierdness.

bill2
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Offline 754

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2008, 09:49:12 AM »
Worn tires can make it do that, and too light a fork oil.

I would never NEVER rely on measuring what is in the fork as a guide to capacity, besides it is very time consuming. Use the recommeded amount, if you feel the springs are altering volume, compensate accordingly.. I doubt you will  need less oil if you put bigger springs in for the reasons most do..
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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2008, 12:05:13 PM »
Worn tires can make it do that, and too light a fork oil.

I would never NEVER rely on measuring what is in the fork as a guide to capacity, besides it is very time consuming. Use the recommeded amount, if you feel the springs are altering volume, compensate accordingly.. I doubt you will  need less oil if you put bigger springs in for the reasons most do..
If by NEVER you mean you prefer not to, I can see it. However it is now the accepted way of doing things. This tool helps, http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0121/

For instance unless you do a complete fork teardown and wipedown you won't get all the old oil out and if you just pour in X amount you have too much.

Ron
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline 754

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2008, 09:49:13 PM »
I may be not understanding..

 What you wrote sounded like it measures the level of the oil, but the link shows a pump or vacumn extractor..

My thinking still is that when you are servicing forks, (moreso ones that are leaking).. the old amount is not a reliable guage as to recommended capacity..

 So are you saying you dont drain out of the bottom? and stuff stays there??
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MCRider

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 09:08:21 AM »
I may be not understanding..

 What you wrote sounded like it measures the level of the oil, but the link shows a pump or vacumn extractor..

My thinking still is that when you are servicing forks, (moreso ones that are leaking).. the old amount is not a reliable guage as to recommended capacity..

 So are you saying you dont drain out of the bottom? and stuff stays there??

It is a combination measuring stick and extractor, for sucking out excess oil.

I would agree the level is not a good gauge for the amount that should be in the fork unless you already know the appropriate measuring spot for that model, and for the CB750 I don't know. I've only done complete teardowns recently.

When I was riding my NT650 hawk at trackdays a few years ago, the suspension gurus said to ALWAYS measure, never drain and fill. That fork I had setup for me and they measured it as the correct height is well known in those circles. I had them add cartreidge emulators and Progressive springs (which use heavier wire and tighter coils) so the mass in the tube was greater and to simply fill with the recommended amount would result in overfill and poor performance.

And finally, yes if one simply drains out the drain hole, even pumping, there is a large amount of oil that will stick to the parts. So drain and fill will almost surely result in overfill. Only upon teardown and cleaning should one use the recommended amount to refill. Anything else is a best guess and may not be equal on both sides.

If one already has the fork back together, the tool can be used first to see that the levels are equal in both tubes, and then experiment in small increments.

This thread furthers the argument and gets rather heated, so I respect both sides, but advance the measuring argument. http://www.t595.net/messageboard/thread/Fork-oil/23868.aspx

The tool can be replicated with a syringe and plastic tubing.
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Offline scondon

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 09:32:08 AM »
From what I remember:

Rebuild capacity from K3?- K8 and 75-78 F.

145-155cc

Refill after draining

115-125cc


*Measure level from top of fork tube with shocks fully compressed and springs removed

6"

* I'll check back on this once the coffee kicks in ;)
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 10:50:33 AM »
From what I remember:

Rebuild capacity from K3?- K8 and 75-78 F.

145-155cc

Refill after draining

115-125cc


*Measure level from top of fork tube with shocks fully compressed and springs removed

6"

* I'll check back on this once the coffee kicks in ;)

That's a great start! I think the K0-K2 forks held more, like 225cc after teardown. Mesaurement unknown to me, but I'm rebuilding mine from teardown in the next month or so and will post.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline scondon

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Re: Front end "bouncing"
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 11:09:40 AM »
From what I remember:

Rebuild capacity from K3?- K8 and 75-78 F.

145-155cc

Refill after draining

115-125cc


*Measure level from top of fork tube with shocks fully compressed and springs removed

6"

* I'll check back on this once the coffee kicks in ;)

That's a great start! I think the K0-K2 forks held more, like 225cc after teardown. Mesaurement unknown to me, but I'm rebuilding mine from teardown in the next month or so and will post.

   I've never worked on the early forks but 220-230cc at rebuild is correct. I think 155-165cc after draining.
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame