Author Topic: Harley buys MV Agusta  (Read 3040 times)

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Offline ieism

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Harley buys MV Agusta
« on: July 11, 2008, 12:37:38 PM »
I'm not sure why, but it made me sad to read this. There's just no way that this is going to produce a better MV in the future. What do you guys think?

:

"Harley-Davidson To Acquire MV Agusta Group, Expanding Presence In Europe

July 11, 2008 - Harley-Davidson, Inc. today announced the signing of a definitive agreement to purchase the Italian motorcycle maker MV Agusta Group (MVAG).

Under the agreement, Harley-Davidson will acquire 100 percent of MV Agusta Group shares for total consideration of approximately 70 million euros ($109 million).

This includes the satisfaction of existing bank debt for approximately 45 million euros ($70 million). In addition, the agreement provides for a contingent payment to Claudio Castiglioni in 2016, if certain financial targets are met.

MV Agusta Group is privately held, with the Castiglioni family owning 95 percent of MVAG shares.

The acquisition is expected to close in several weeks, pending the satisfaction of contingencies and receipt of regulatory approvals. Harley-Davidson intends to fund the transaction primarily through euro-denominated debt.

MV Agusta Group has two families of motorcycles: a line of exclusive, premium, high-performance sport motorcycles sold under the MV Agusta brand; and a line of lightweight motorcycles sold under the Cagiva brand.

MV Agusta's F4-R motorcycle, powered by a 1078cc in-line four-cylinder liquid cooled engine, is rated at 190 hp. The company sells its products through about 500 dealers worldwide, the vast majority of them in Europe.  In 2007, MVAG shipped 5,819 motorcycles.  During 2008 MVAG has significantly slowed production due to financial difficulties.

"Motorcycles are the heart, soul and passion of Harley-Davidson, Buell and MV Agusta," said Harley-Davidson, Inc. Chief Executive Officer Jim Ziemer.  "Both have great products and close connections with incredibly devoted customers.  The MV Agusta and Cagiva brands are well-known and highly regarded in Europe.  They are synonymous with beautiful, premium, Italian performance motorcycles," Ziemer said.

Harley-Davidson, Inc. plans to continue to operate MV Agusta Group from its headquarters based in Varese, Italy.  Following closing, the first priority will be to appoint a leadership team to include a new Managing Director and to resume the manufacture of current models.

Current MV Agusta Group Chairman Claudio Castiglioni will continue in a leadership role as Chairman and will play a major role in future product development.  Design Chief Massimo Tamburini will continue his leadership of MV Agusta Group's world leading sport-bike design studio.

"We take enormous pride in MV Agusta and Cagiva motorcycles," said Castiglioni.  "Our riders seek an uncompromising experience in premium performance motorcycles.  And with Harley-Davidson's deep understanding of the emotional as well as the business side of motorcycling, I have great confidence that our motorcycles will excite customers for generations to come."

According to Ziemer, the acquisition is intended primarily to expand Harley-Davidson, Inc's presence and footprint in Europe, complementing the Harley-Davidson and Buell motorcycle families.  Retail sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles have grown at a double-digit rate in Europe in each of the last three years, as the Company has increased its strategic focus on global markets.

"The acquisition of MV Agusta Group will enhance Harley-Davidson, Inc's position as a global leader in fulfilling customer dreams and providing extraordinary customer experiences.  We look forward to a long relationship with the MV Agusta and Cagiva families of customers and employees," said Ziemer.

Although Harley-Davidson and MV Agusta Group have signed a definitive purchase agreement, there is no assurance that all of the contingencies will be satisfied or that the governmental approvals will be obtained in a timely manner or at all.  The proposed acquisition may not occur if the conditions to completing the transaction are not satisfied in a timely manner.

In addition, Harley-Davidson intends to finance a portion of the consideration by borrowing funds and its level of indebtedness may increase as a result, which may cause Harley-Davidson to incur additional interest expense and limit Harley-Davidson's ability to obtain additional financing.

It could also increase Harley-Davidson's exposure to general adverse economic and industry conditions and adversely impact Harley-Davidson, Inc.'s earnings per share.  Furthermore, Harley-Davidson may have challenges successfully integrating or profitably operating the business of MV Agusta Group. "
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2008, 12:40:32 PM »
COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline ieism

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2008, 12:44:29 PM »
 :D

I guess if you're a Harley fan it's good news.....
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2008, 12:49:55 PM »
sure but,if mv agusta is having the money issues i hear they are,its a damn good thing harley bought em
mark
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eldar

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2008, 12:53:05 PM »
Now lets just hope the american hd engineers leave the italians alone to keep doing what they do best. let hd manage the financial side of it. maybe they can turn mv into an image too?

Offline dusterdude

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2008, 12:53:54 PM »
i certainly hope they are smart enough to leave them guys alone.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2008, 07:49:38 PM »
Now lets just hope the american hd engineers leave the italians alone to keep doing what they do best. let hd manage the financial side of it. maybe they can turn mv into an image too?
HD will leave them alone for awhile. HD has proved they don't have the internal expertise to develop a true performance bike. Let's face it, each HD model is a variation on the same theme and it is getting stale.

If you can't develop internally you buy the expertise. When Ford took over Jaguar and Volvo, the Fords got better looking, and they have more safety features. My wife's Lincoln MKZ is a Volvo S80 platform and both models use the Mazda 6 speed AWD system. The air bag system is all Volvo.

What usually happens when one Company swallows another is they leave it be for a while. However, the management of the the parent company never trusts the management of the subsidary, and since control and power drives the Execs of all companies, they slowly move their semi trusted lackeys into the other Company to keep an eye on things. The lackeys will slowly drive the existing management out of the subsidary and the best people will quit.

If HD thinks they can outflank the Japanese they have a big surprise coming. The Japanese will continue to own the street when it comes to the sport market.
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2008, 08:25:47 PM »
I think you're spot on Bobby. One doesn't need to look hard or long for examples of this. However, sometimes the "merger of equals" works out well without crushing the subsidiary. My understanding is the marriage of Daimler and Chrysler hurt the Germans so sometimes it's the other way round.

HD would be well advised to let the Italians work their craft- as has been opined here already.

In the mean time maybe that means we'll see more MV's on the road. A good thing, yes?



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Offline 754

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2008, 08:48:06 PM »
Holy Moley, took a long time to get onto here..

 We were talking about it on nedthetoothpick.com... since June 8th...
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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2008, 12:42:59 AM »
According to Ziemer, the acquisition is intended primarily to expand Harley-Davidson, Inc's presence and footprint in Europe, complementing the Harley-Davidson and Buell motorcycle families.  Retail sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles have grown at a double-digit rate in Europe in each of the last three years, as the Company has increased its strategic focus on global markets.

How delightfully vague...  Could be anywhere from 11% to 99%.  The wording of this quote makes me think their "growth" in Europe leans toward the former percentage.

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Offline Ichiban 4

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2008, 12:55:22 AM »
HD will leave them alone for awhile. HD has proved they don't have the internal expertise to develop a true performance bike. Let's face it, each HD model is a variation on the same theme and it is getting stale.

If HD thinks they can outflank the Japanese they have a big surprise coming. The Japanese will continue to own the street when it comes to the sport market.
[/quote]
_________________________________________________________

Think another thing most Harley / American business owners don't seem to realize about the Japanese in particular..is the social structure that these companies operate under.

Rather than the "every man for himself" independent model (as with most American business models)..the Japanese are more willing to collaborate/share..and in order to gain more market share/leverage.

Companies like Honda, Kawi, Suzuki, et al. frequently share engineering, marketing strategies in order to compete with other countries.  Can you see that with companies like Harley, Victory, Indian?  Or even Ford & GM?  Don't think so...

Not wanting to offend the brothers here who have soft spots for old American iron..but along the lines of Bobby's comment about HD getting stale..look @ where they've focused most of their efforts, energy over past say 30 years.  It hasn't been in the engineering, design aspect..but rather BRANDING..selling clothes, cigarette lighters..their name..to whomever will pay for it.

The only way that companies like HD can outflank the Japanese..or many European manufacturers..would be to get off of the nostalgia-branding thing..and really start doing some R & D as well as offering truly new technology.  It ain't gonna happen..I believe.

And over the next 20 years or so..when most of us boomer generation are too old to ride or buy new bikes..I highly suspect that companies like HD will be either out of business..or branding for say leather brassieres for the kinky crowd.

Where will the Japanese be in 20 years?  Maybe making environmentally friendly hybrid bikes..that use the newer lithium-ion battery technology..heck I don't know.

Ichi
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2008, 01:29:59 AM »
All excellent points Ichi,

While I respect a company that doesn't lose sight of their 'heritage' I think HD has done so in a cynical way.

They could keep their feet in the past, their eye on the future (sorry) and thus maintain some relevance.

Heck, wasn't Harley and Indian all about innovation a 100 years ago- what happened Willy?



I liked the bit about leather brassieres. ;D
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Offline tramp

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2008, 04:20:56 AM »
harley's going into the sportbike area because it's growing so fast
 and nobody wants a harley sport bike
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Offline ekim98

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2008, 08:18:21 AM »
Harley doesn't make a sports bike, but I heard that there was talk of bringing out an XR model again. The V-rod was a step in the right direction but the harley crowd wouldn't buy it.

I think it was a mistake for MV to sell out to HD.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 08:20:04 AM by ekim98 »
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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2008, 08:43:44 AM »
Bottom line....  Increased exposure and sales for both brands through a much larger and global dealer network. Economy of scale. Perhaps both brands will be improved through interaction with one another.

They are what they are and thats all they are! Kinda like Popeye  ;) Harley very successfully pulled out of the AMF ashes. That does not imply they are now new world cutting edge but rather a rather shrewd business entity for today's world. Only Harley will determine Harley's future.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 09:25:06 AM by RxmanGriff »
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Offline 754

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2008, 08:44:57 AM »
Ichi, can you tell me how you can produce a V-Rod or a twincam or the Dyna, without focusing on engineering??

People have been suspecting they will be out of business in 20 years for longer than we have been alive..
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Offline kslrr

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2008, 09:05:03 AM »
Harley has released an XR.  The XR1200 for Europe.  The test is in this months Cycle World.  They say it is the best handling Harley to date and consider it a Street-Tracker bike.  Also, Harley did not drop the V-Rod as stated in another thread.
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Offline ekim98

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2008, 09:45:02 AM »
Harley has released an XR.  The XR1200 for Europe.  The test is in this months Cycle World.  They say it is the best handling Harley to date and consider it a Street-Tracker bike.  Also, Harley did not drop the V-Rod as stated in another thread.

I did not know they were making the xr in any form. I don't follow harley news much. As far as the V-rod I had read that it was no longer in production, and that few dealers even wanted to mess with it due to poor sales?
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Offline CBGhia

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2008, 11:55:11 AM »
Didn't engineers from Porsche design the V-rod?  or at least the engine?
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2008, 11:59:55 AM »
I remember reading they (Porsche) had major input in development. Also, I think the motor was loosely based on one of HD's racing efforts.

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Offline kslrr

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2008, 07:53:49 PM »
This was the second time that HD and Porsche worked together.  They had produced a water cooled v-4 or v-6 back before AMF came along.  The prototype still exists.
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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2008, 09:59:41 PM »
Let's not forget about the collaboration between Porsche and Harley on the twin cam 88B (counter balanced) engine.
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Offline Ichiban 4

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2008, 01:49:13 AM »
Ichi, can you tell me how you can produce a V-Rod or a twincam or the Dyna, without focusing on engineering??

People have been suspecting they will be out of business in 20 years for longer than we have been alive..

Good point 754..

What comes to my mind though is: What's so modern or revolutionary about the engineering on a V-Rod or twin cam?  I mean basically..how long did it take Harley to do an OHC bike like the V-Rod..and why did it take so long?  Same with the Twin Cam: how many other bike makers were doing 2-cam bikes before Harley?

Think the point most were making on this thread was that for a very long time..Harley has been "come lately" on their designs, engineering.  And they seem to put a whole lot of resources into branding their products.

Hey..I'm not trying to knock Harley because we all (supposedly) ride these old Japanese bikes.  But I think (@ least personally) that there seems to be a decided disconnect between the rhetoric/image that Harley presents..and the product they provide.

If you like Harley's..I can't argue with that.  But if we are comparing them engineering wise to say Honda, Kawi..or Agusta, Ducati..then I think there's little to compare with.

My two cents worth.

Ichi
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Offline City Boy

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2008, 03:48:54 AM »
The Harley product will improve when they hire more enguneers and less lawyers!
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Offline 754

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Re: Harley buys MV Agusta
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2008, 07:38:38 AM »
Umm Ichi,
 Harley was making twin cams in the 20,s already..

I was not comparing their engineering against other bikes, just pointing out that they havent made any advances in 39 years was not exactly correct.. ;)

oh.. btw who was first with throttle by wire.??
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