Topic: ring expander/ring compressor. Do you need them?? Other questions Also.

[JAG]

I just order some standard size piston rings from z1enterprises, and I was wondering if you really needed an expander to put them back on, and if you need the ring compressor to hold them in side the piston while you slide the piston back into the cylinder? Is there any other way around it. The guy who honed my pistons said that there was a possibility of torquing/warping the rings while reinstallation w/o expander. And without a compressor to put them back on, wouldn't it be next to impossible to hold them together while reinsertion?

Also I read some where the rings need to be 120 degrees apart from each other. How necessary is that?

As far as the gaskets are concerned within the top end rebuild, are there some gaskets you seal with the hondabond, and some you don't?

[rbmgf7]

I just order some standard size piston rings from z1enterprises, and I was wondering if you really needed an expander to put them back on, and if you need the ring compressor to hold them in side the piston while you slide the piston back into the cylinder? Is there any other way around it. The guy who honed my pistons said that there was a possibility of torquing/warping the rings while reinstallation w/o expander. And without a compressor to put them back on, wouldn't it be next to impossible to hold them together while reinsertion?

Also I read some where the rings need to be 120 degrees apart from each other. How necessary is that?

As far as the gaskets are concerned within the top end rebuild, are there some gaskets you seal with the hondabond, and some you don't?

you can get ring pliers at auto zone for a few bucks. makes installing rings a bit easier.

a ring compressor is neccesary if you do want to get the pistons back into the cylinders. you will need two. compressors will make the job easier. i wouldn't suggest trying to use your fingers or anyother method (learned from experience)

yes, if you want compression, rings gaps will need to be 120 degrees apart.

i use permatex gasket sealer. it's a glue to hold gaskets in place but also helps on sealing.

[rhinoracer]

Ring expanding pliers will definitely make your life simpler, you can insert the rings by hand although it'll take longer but it definitely can be done.

Ring compressors would be a waste of your money on the 750 since the cylinders are already tapered on the bottom and the rings will glide right in.

[scunny]

I use feeler gauges to slip the rings past the top groove, and fingers to install thanks to the taper

[JAG]

And, do you seal all gaskets to their counterparts or is there some gaskets that you don't seal up?

Like I know with the majority of all my side covers came off rather easily, but while I have been doing this rebuild the gaskets sealing the head to the block, and from the block to the lower end, had to be scrapped off and then blasted to get all the gunk away.. So does this mean the gaskets for the top end needs sealant??

Thanks for all the replies.

The guy that honed my cylinders said he would let me borrow their expander.  I think I would be better off using one instead of warping the new rings..

As far as the ring compressor, if they are cheap and can be rented from auto zone I may opt for that.. But I really fingured I could just pinch them in there with my fingers..

[754]

If not using a compressor, use wooden sticks like from ice cream rather than metal..

Stock bores assemble pretty easily..but using blocks to hold up pistons makes a huge difference.... do 2 pistons at a time..

[Gamma]

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[Gamma]

I followed information from previous posts and temporarily taped the gasket to the bottom of the cylinder block.   Don't forget tensioner and chain, up the middle.
The pieces of wood keep the first 2 pistons square.
Lowered the cylinder block onto pistons 2 and 3, and fed each ring into sleeves one at a time, using my nails. ( Top ring no2 then top ring no3, then second ring no2 then second ring no3 and so on.  Get a mate to lower the cylinders to keep it all pretty straight. I needed only to tap the top of the cylinder block with the base of my hand to get each ring to slip in.  When you have done pistons 2 and 3, turn the motor which lowers the cylinders with 2 and 3 pistons in thier sleeves and 1 and 4 come up for thier turn to be fed in.

[ksmith0034]

I used aircraft style clamps as ring compressors (be VERY careful not to scratch anything!).  Do 2 pistons at a time and use wood blocks to hold them up.  Unlike me, try to do this BEFORE putting the new studs in- it will be much easier.  BTW, don't even think about not using new, beefier studs - I used APE.

[MRieck]

I followed information from previous posts and temporarily taped the gasket to the bottom of the cylinder block.   Don't forget tensioner and chain, up the middle.
The pieces of wood keep the first 2 pistons square.
Lowered the cylinder block onto pistons 2 and 3, and fed each ring into sleeves one at a time, using my nails. ( Top ring no2 then top ring no3, then second ring no2 then second ring no3 and so on.  Get a mate to lower the cylinders to keep it all pretty straight. I needed only to tap the top of the cylinder block with the base of my hand to get each ring to slip in.  When you have done pistons 2 and 3, turn the motor which lowers the cylinders with 2 and 3 pistons in thier sleeves and 1 and 4 come up for thier turn to be fed in.

As mentioned (and shown) the piston supports are very, very helpful. I use a factory Suzuki set. I hold the base gasket to the bottom of the cylinder with rubber bands. Just cut them away when you have all the pistons in.

[JAG]

Very Sweet! I can handle that..

  BTW, don't even think about not using new, beefier studs - I used APE.

I'm not boring it out. It was just lightly honed to standard specs. I didn't go to that route just yet. If I was increasing the horsepower and compression of the engine, I agree the APE studs are a definite must, but as far as factory specs, I think I can live without them. (I hoped)

However, I'm still curious about this gasket. I see you guys have held it up to the block with either bands or tape, but once you get the pistons in place is it, and all the other gaskets held in by a type of sealant, or is it just this one?

Thanks for the pics and advice guys.

[mystic_1]

As far as I know, all gaskets are installed without any sort of sealant.  I've never seen instructions that stated otherwise.  That said, many people use gasket sealant anyway.

mystic_1

[JAG]

thanks mystic. I trust your judgement..

Still haven't quite figured out that "steering tightening" thing, cause I don't have the adjustment tool, but still working on it.. 

[Gamma]

Not sure what everybody else does, but I assembled this gasket dry except that I put a very thin smear of Threebond 1104 above and below the gasket just around the outside of where the 2 o' rings sit at the rear 2 studs.  I did this just before I finally dropped the cylinder block into position.
 
Now I must write my lines for mispelling THEIR previously.