Topic: stripped

[heffay]

81 cb650
all was going well until i met up w/ the seized cylinder head nuts... i think california air really did a number on most of the fasteners on the bike.
some of the cylinder head nuts had the covers over them to keep stuff out, some did not.
most are rusty as all hell.
one is completely rounded off, i've tried two others w/ about 175-200 pounds of torque and they aren't budging.
i am using a 6 point socket but the nuts still seem like butter and act as if they want to round off as well.
socket shows no signs of wear and they have served me very well in the past.

$100 gift card to sears if i need to buy a tool or two.
easy out?  those are normally for screws and bolts but maybe something similar for nuts?  those weird grabby sockets?
something else for the 12mm nuts?
soak them in?
i could use an air tool, but i think i may get similar results... the nuts just don't seem durable anymore.  i also can't use impact sockets as the hole is too small for the additional diameter of the socket.

and the #$%* of it all... every one of them is buried in a 2.5" - 3" hole!

thanks to all...

[Gordon]

Was that a question or a rant?

[heffay]

i count 5 question marks there 

more could be inferred.   

gordon... what does manuelle say?

[DRam]

I have had some (read 'occassional') luck breaking frozen nuts loose by several hard hammer blows.  I use sockets large enough to clear the bolt but small enough to seat on the nut and give them three or four hard smacks.  If you can get to them with a MAPP gas torch you could also try heat.  Sorry, I havent any advice for the rounded off nuts buried that deep.  Unless there is a standard socket just the right size you could hammer on them and form a hex head?   Air tool?  The hammering action might do it if you can limit the torque so that it gently hammers them and doesn't just round them off.  Good luck.

[scunny]

they are bolts, not studs on the 650

[heffay]

are they?... so far down in the hole i can barely see them w/ a flashlight.   

thanks for that scunny. 

[DammitDan]

Just gotta remember Heff, the CB650 is completely bass ackwards to every conventional wisdom that Honda used.  Probably why it never really caught on.

Wait till you get to the part where you put the correct torque on your steel cylinder head bolts and they start stripping out the old, weak aluminum threads down in the case!  (That was especially fun for me).

[heffay]

so, i could use an easy out w/ (to be discovered) success?

other suggestions?

gordon... you think you're hot stuff... get over here and tell me what to do! 

[heffay]

Wait till you get to the part where you put the correct torque on your steel cylinder head bolts and they start stripping out the old, weak aluminum threads down in the case!  (That was especially fun for me).

happened on my 350f as well... irritates the crap out of me to do what they tell me to and it still ain't right.
i know, i know... ain't ain't a word and you ain't s'posed to say ain't!  thank you, mother.

sometimes i wonder why i bother w/ the torque wrench and don't just use my arm, i did win the calibrated arm contest at MMI 

[MJL]

Can you get new bolts? If so, try drilling out the head of the bolt.  You'll either drill it out so that it pops off, or not so much and the socket twists it off.

[hopterfixer]

I  have had great success with using acetone and automatic transmission fluid mixed 1:1.  Soak the offending area liberally and then soak it again.  Let it soak for a day or so.  I use to remove steel bolts from aluminum (airplane) structure that have been mated for nearly sixty years.  Good Luck.

[scunny]

a good trick for when you reinstall the jugs. purchase a meter(yard) length of 8mm threaded rod, cut this into 4, screw these into the 4 outside bolt holes and install nuts on them down to the height of the 2 and 3 pistons. then you can slowly control the descent of the jugs as you install the rings. also put nuts on the top and wind these down as you go and this will hold everything in place for the install of 1 and 4. when finished just wind the bolts back out making sure you don't lose any nuts down the awaiting orrifice. makes the install a one man job and a breeze.

[Ichiban 4]

Geoff..

Try this: soak the nuts liberally with Liquid Wrench overnight.  Get an impact driver with sockets..if you don't have already.  [Use @ least a 6-point socket..especially for rounded nuts..12-point will just make things worse..as you probably know]. 

You can get special long-reach, narrow diameter sockets.  If not..then you may have to use an extension and grind down the diameter of a regular socket.  Honda made them to service their stuff.  Also Ask Marv @ Rocky Mtn KZ..who knows all about those special Honda tools.

Start by setting impact driver to tighten..give a couple of moderate "smacks".  Then reverse setting on impact driver to loosen..give a couple of smacks again. 

Don't overdo the stress on nuts.  Often..if you try to muscle the nuts off..you'll round them (as apparently you're aware)..or twist-off the studs.  Try to work back and forth to get threads to break loose.  If necessary add more Liquid Wrench.  Point is to get the LW to work it's way down between threads.  Reason to tighten first..is because usually the threads covered by nut are less corroded/stuck..which gives chance for LW to penetrate.

Excepting the most stubborn, corroded..this works.  If it doesn't..let me know..I may have a few other ideas.  I used to rebuild model T's way back..which had been sitting out in weather for 50 years (also all iron)..and this worked with them.  If all else fails..I believe that Marv will have a workable plan.

Ichi

[Hush]

I am presuming the motor is out of the frame?
If so and you totally totally run out of ideas......huge whacking sharp drill on a really good powerful power drill and drill till the heads of the nuts are gone!
So that's final and last resort, drill the tops off of the nuts.
This will entail 16 (from memory) nuts drilled out and probably the replacement of 16 new studs once you get the cylinders off.
As I said, very very last resort (just before you take it back down the wharf and throw it in the tide).
But it does go to prove their is no such thing as an impossible job.

[tramp]

good ideas all
i wish you luck
glad it's your problem not mine

[DammitDan]

Hey Heff if you end up having to drill the bolts out, I've got a good supply in the basement I can send over to ya for the price of, "It's running!" in a few weeks 

[Rocking-M]

what ichiban said plus,

first soak with LW or WD40 and tap on the heads of the bolts with hammer.
Sounds like you'll have to use a rod extension for that part.
The vibration will allow the LW to penetrate. I'd do this for a couple of days
before trying to remove the bolts.

Then as ichiban said , tighten first then try to back out.

[heffay]

ok... NOW i'm prepared!

bolts are soaking and new tools are a waitin'.   

[heffay]

the die grinder is to grind down the 12mm bolt extractor so that it will fit in the stupid holes.   

[heffay]

now the best part... prices!

harbor freight is your friend!
compressor = on sale $160
adaptor set = $3
die grinder w/ bits = $15

and w/ my sears gift card that only had $67 remaining from the original $100 (yay, new reeboks)...
bolt out set = on sale $9.99 from $20
impact wrench = on sale $67 from $75 then an additional $20 taken from the sale price because the $39 impact that i wanted was not in stock.   
even have 5 bucks still on the card! 

[heffay]

i'm just gonna keep talking to myself here   ...

question about those grinding tips since i can't find anything about the differences in color pertaining to abrasiveness... my assumption would be that the pink would be softest, then white, then gray.   

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

yeah, I think pink is your color alright 

[heffay]

in my gayest, lispiest voice... you bassterd! 

[heffay]

so i started w/ the 145lb. max torque impact and a bunch of other tools... that broke 5 loose



maddog and paul (78550k) came over w/ a couple beefier impact wrenches and we managed to get all but the last one!   
we impacted that damn bolt probably 5000 times and nothing gave.



as a last resort, if nothing more than to just sheer it off and be done with it... we grabbed the pipe in the previous picture and my biggest socket wrench... w/ all of pauls weight over the axis of the socket extension, i pulled w/ the equivalent of probably 400lbs. of torque and... VOILA!



FINALLY!!!!     

by the way... there was so much crud down in the holes and on top of the bolt heads, that's what was making me think the heads were stripped.      thanks honda maybe you could seal off the bolt heads next time?

i think a mixture of an over-torquing previous owner and california salty air are to blame... most all the bolts on the bike seem ridiculously frozen, but for now, the ones we're worried about are not!     oh, and UNSTRIPPED!   

and, the aftermath...
[youtube=425,350]quRlD_aVXWs[/youtube]

[scunny]

good to see you got those bolts out, I had to cut thru the side of the barrels to get one
as for the vid....wheres the beer ?
check out my post above re installing them jugs, makes life a breeze

[DammitDan]

You might wanna consider heli-coiling the bolt holes in the case just to be safe...  All that torque can't be good for those old weakened aluminum threads.  There's nothing like getting everything put back together only to have one measly bolt strip the threads, then you gotta take everything back apart again.

Not that I would know of anything like that ever happening...