Author Topic: hey 650 guys: cam sprocket question  (Read 4689 times)

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Offline Buber

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Re: hey 650 guys: cam sprocket question
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2008, 02:03:50 AM »
paulages, if you don't mind, what is the screw port on the side of the head on the bottom picture? Some kind of additional oil routing? Anything special we all could use?

And what is that fancy clutch cover, eh?

Thanks!
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Offline bwaller

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Re: hey 650 guys: cam sprocket question
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2008, 03:42:36 AM »
I agree with scondon you're doing about all you can to get a decent measurement. Several guys here have been frustrated with settings Webcam supplies, which aren't exactly achieveable, and they say their fiqures are taken at the cam not the opposite end of the rocker.

Maybe (to further your pleasure) you should take a reading from there if you haven't buttoned it up, although not sure what more it'll tell you. I'm sure you've only moved your indicator a hundred times by now too!

I can see by the posting times you were burning the midnight oil working on this. The engine does look great.

 We're on your side man.

Offline paulages

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Re: hey 650 guys: cam sprocket question
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2008, 04:04:36 AM »
scondon- you're right about the angle of the tappet adjuster changing as it depresses the valve, but i assume that the major point is to find a consistent point of lift that is measurable beyond the actual beginning of the lobe ramp. i set my dial indicator so that it is only depressed a small amount past .040" so that it wouldn't try and move out of its axis from the angle of the tappet adjuster screw changing. i figured as long as it always zeroed back out and always measured the same degree at the same lift, it must be working within the formula. i notice that megacycle's numbers for opening and closing are pretty different, but it makes sense since their measurements are supposed to be actual opening and closing times, not the same at 1mm. i managed to get my cheap-ass harbor freight dial indicator to stick to the steel cover bolts. it wasn't incredibly stable, but again- i was relying on multiple corroborating readings to verify consistency. your steel plate idea sounds great.

brent- i think i will try to measure off of the follower end of the tappet come to think of it. the 650 has that entire section wide open (again, this is where you measure valve lash on these heads), so it should be easy. funny thing is, the "midnight oil" ends up being whatever time i can cram in between other prioritized work for other people. (note what time i'm posting this... and i have to work in the morning). nice to have people on my side thought buddy- i've sure needed it.  ;)

Buber- the banjo bolts you are referring to are for routing the oil lines around the barrels to the head, to avoid the close proximity to the cylinder sleeves and heat, as well as to avoid the leaks that like to spring up there. if you're not familiar with the frankenstein beast i'm building, search "650 550 hybrid" on here. oh yeah, the "fancy clutch cover" is just a polished 550 cover. i did have to hog out a little around the 650 primary clutch gear to make it fit, but i'll get to that eventually in the other thread.

paul
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1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
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Offline Buber

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Re: hey 650 guys: cam sprocket question
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2008, 06:48:32 AM »
Hmm, nice mod. I may think about it... But maybe it would be easier for me to fit a cooler from a CBX model?

Just thinking aloud... Thanks!
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Offline scondon

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Re: hey 650 guys: cam sprocket question
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2008, 10:00:46 AM »
 Don't know why I had Webcam stuck in my head.  MEGACYCLE! MEGACYCLE! MEGACYCLE!, there....it's gone ;)

    You can still match the open/close specs on the card even if .040 lift is not accurate. Measure the open/close values at "X" lift and compare to the #'s on the card. Move cam until open/close #'s are equal number of degrees off of card. Spin cam around to opening degree value on card and note lift value on dial indicator, then spin around to close and stop at the lift you noted. Close should also match card at this point.

      My Webcam card said to measure at .050 lift but the values only matched the card at .040 lift. I had much better results following the Megacycle card when I installed one of theirs.

    You've got this well figured out,Paul ;) :)
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Offline paulages

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Re: hey 650 guys: cam sprocket question
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2008, 11:15:05 AM »

    You've got this well figured out,Paul ;) :)

i sure hope so!  ;) ;D i can't help but wonder how much trouble that 5 degrees is going to give me when it comes to ignition timing. guess i'll have to re-mark the rotor at TDC and 35 degrees. seems like a shame to permanently mark the pretty dyna rotor.  ;D
paul
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1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
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Offline scondon

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Re: hey 650 guys: cam sprocket question
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2008, 11:29:31 AM »
 Don't sweat the ignition timing until you get there. Even the stock motors don't match up between "T" mark and "true TDC". Dyna 2000 ignition does not follow any "manual" settings and you will be tuning specifically for your bike. Mark the plate when you find a good setting. I scratched lines to correspond with 32.5/35/37.5 degree timing so I could make quick visual adjustments on the fly.
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Offline paulages

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Re: hey 650 guys: cam sprocket question
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2008, 01:45:13 PM »
Don't sweat the ignition timing until you get there. Even the stock motors don't match up between "T" mark and "true TDC". Dyna 2000 ignition does not follow any "manual" settings and you will be tuning specifically for your bike. Mark the plate when you find a good setting. I scratched lines to correspond with 32.5/35/37.5 degree timing so I could make quick visual adjustments on the fly.

yeah, i just figure i should mark where TDC and 35 degrees actually are, while i have the degree wheel on and TDC found. believe me, i will be so ecstatic to be at that point that fine tuning will not be a worry...
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R