Author Topic: Troubleshooting Fun  (Read 1862 times)

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Offline Accolay

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Troubleshooting Fun
« on: July 27, 2008, 08:58:51 am »
Just had to share.
Troubleshooting the taillight 1977 CB550F. Checked the fuse a while ago where the fuse holder says "tail." Fuse is good. Kept troubleshooting. Wondering why that SP15 fuse terminals and plastic is burnt/melted....didn't remember 4 fuses in the 550 wiring diagram...Took off the fuse box and flipped over...no connections to the "tail" fuse. Crap. Seems the label was put on wrong and the reason the plastic is melted is because there IS a 15 amp fuse for the tail light there. Assuming that is the correct place for the taillight fuse...gotta check for the brown wires.
1977 CB550F

Offline scondon

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Re: Troubleshooting Fun
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 10:15:25 am »
Label looks right, Tail/head/main/ with the SPare fuse seperated from the rest. Wiring looks buggered as the SPare fuse is hot. Are the Head/Main wired correct? Thinking the whole wiring sequence is moved over one step, weird :P
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline Accolay

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Re: Troubleshooting Fun
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2008, 10:18:02 am »
Update: So the melted bits are for the main and it appears I have a short somewhere between the two brown wires for the tail light. *sigh*
1977 CB550F

Offline Accolay

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Re: Troubleshooting Fun
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2008, 10:25:42 am »
Looks like way back before in the way back time somebody had to pop out the fuse terminals in the forth slot over from the left. Any idea why the main would run hot like that?
1977 CB550F

Offline scondon

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Re: Troubleshooting Fun
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2008, 10:36:19 am »
The main covers all of the electric load. Head and Tail fuses are downstream of the main fuse.Everything runs through it and it's wired almost straight from the battery. They tend to run hot and get hotter the more your connections age and weather(resistance or something?). Clean all connections and repair any exposed/rusted wiring.
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Troubleshooting Fun
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2008, 11:58:55 am »
This is a pretty classic failure mode.
The main fuse typically runs at 2/3 of its load rating.  Which naturally warms the fuse.  It melts from within, when the current gets too high.
It can also melt from external heat applied to it.
The fuse clips develop an oxidation layer (when exposed to the atmosphere) which is resistive.  Passing current through this resistance generates heat.

The heat of a normal fuse AND the heat from the resistive coating can melt the fuse.  The symptom of this problem it that the fuse melts near the end cap.

The problem is exacerbated by higher electrical load, like higher wattage headlights, coils, etc.
Frustrated with the constant fuse"blowing", POs put in larger fuses, or bolts in place of the fuse.

Heating becomes so high as to reach the melting point of the plastic housing and even change the temper of the spring clips, so they don't "grab" the fuse as tightly.  And, the lower contact pressure diminishes contact area that also creates higher resistance.
When the melted plastic cools down, the clip terminals are no longer free to self align with the fuse end.  A replacement fuse then gets less that half the contact area at the clip, and more heating ensues.  I've even seen abuse so bad the the solder on the terminals melts, too.
It all a spiral that results in the pictures you've posted.  And it all started with dirty or oxidized fuse clip contacts.  It looks like yours was also damaged by overheating the terminals during soldering operations.
I'd assess yours is beyond hope of salvage, I'm afraid.

If you can't find a new one.  Then only accept a used one that has no signs of melted plastic. And, one where the fuse clips can be polished bright and shiny.  And, that the clips offer fuse retention to a point where a tool is required for removal.  No popping the fuse out with bare fingers.  This latter indicates poor clip to fuse contact pressure.

If you have added more electrical load, consider going to a fuse that isn't operating so close to its parting point commensurate with the load you've added.  If you added 5 amps to your lighting and electricals, then go to a 20 Amp fuse.  Your battery will hate you, but, your fuse panel will survive.

You should be able to hold your thumb on that fuse without pain after the bike has been running for 5 minutes with everything on.  Warm is OK.  Blisters and charred flesh, aren't.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Accolay

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Re: Troubleshooting Fun
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2008, 10:33:39 am »
I don't think a new fuse block is possible....maybe I'll look for the same type of part from another year.... I might just try and make my own somehow...I'm interested in doing something like burma shave did in a recent post with automotive fuses: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=38518.0

But, do automotive fuses come in a 7A rating...I can only find 7.5A.

Maybe try to rig something with a new block somehow like this: http://www.rpelectronics.com/Default.asp?Main=/English/OnlineCat.asp?Menu=/
English/Content/Categories/CatM_55.asp%26Detail=/English/Content/Divisions/Div_55_300.asp




1977 CB550F

Offline Accolay

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Re: Troubleshooting Fun
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2008, 10:48:16 am »
Second link didn't work. Same company, wondering if I might use bits of the surface mount fuse block.
1977 CB550F