Author Topic: Rebuild for Dummies Redux - v2.0, Mulligan (Read 62000 times)

goon 1492 · « **Reply #100 on:** April 08, 2009, 06:57:18 AM »

You will need a load equalizer for the application, I was wrong. But they do have them and I will post a link for it as soon as I get a chance.

I want to start a thread on LED's and share all the info I have aquired, along with many links for them too, along with led info for the home too. I will as soon as I get a chance. Promise

ev0lve · « **Reply #101 on:** April 08, 2009, 10:21:02 AM »

Oh yeah, definitely bring that. I don't have any electrical problems (I know of other than in the bucket) and don't intend to run handwarmers or a bumping stereo/CB radio but brighter, more attention getting lights just seems like a good idea to me.

goon 1492 · « **Reply #102 on:** April 08, 2009, 01:10:00 PM »

Oh god those are sex on the beach, they make me want another bike to do that too.
These are pretty cool but for 45 bucks they better have a 10,000 hr life.
dual function too so one could mod the rears and use them on the back to you could get park and turn lights on the back. I would if I could.

I want those rearsets, gonna have to scavange and get another bike first $:-\$

ev0lve · « **Reply #103 on:** April 12, 2009, 07:50:02 PM »

Easter was up at my Pop's so I stole a few hours to work on the machine.

Got the right caliper apart and recleaned it. There was some snot in the groove I'm hoping was hanging the caliper up. Find out soon enough. Nothing like doing something twice

The carb cleaner ate the paint so I gave it another spraydown with the epoxy aplliance paint so it'll be all nice and glossy on reinstall in a couple days.

Another possible culprit - there's a ding on the lip of the caliper piston as well as some dings. I glossed over that last time as the first one had some pitting as well when I redid it and it worked fine. We'll see I suppose.

ev0lve · « **Reply #104 on:** April 12, 2009, 07:58:44 PM »

Took a little time as well to reattach the badges to the sidecovers and give them a quick rubdown. I used automotive trim tape. Kind of worried about it. Anyone else used this stuff? Long term results?

Edit: It seems 3M trim tape is well regarded

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=47532.msg529575#msg529575

And Goon recommends dental floss for removal
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=47532.msg531176#msg531176

ev0lve · « **Reply #105 on:** April 12, 2009, 08:23:54 PM »

So here's a real problem. It's hard starting. Very hard starting.

Last week I tuned it up and it ran like a top. It took a little while to catch last week too but I figured that would go away. Not so.

This week I took the battery that's been on the charger since the last time I was there (fully charged) and hooked it up. Spin the starter motor for a few minutes and it gurgles, catches a little, gurgles catches a little. Doesn't seem to matter with the choke on or off.

Finally catches and I run it for awhile. Sounds like it's running on 3 cylinders. Let it warm up. More of the same. Bogs when giving it throttle. Pipes are all hot. #1 is hot enough that it's smoking a bit. Didn't do that last week either. Here's a video

So, I don't know. I need to get a game plan together to attack this systematically. Here's what I think I'm going to do.

Hot pipes is lean, yes? The air screws are 1 turn out and it ran great (I thought) last week. See this post for exactly what I did

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=38242.msg520008#msg520008

I have new plugs so those'll go in first I think and see if that effects any of the hard starting-ness of the bike. Then I'll get it running and do a plug chop to see what the bike thinks it's up to. Based on that...

Guess I'll post back and double this up in the SOHC forums for suggestions. Any ideas on what might have changed in a bike sitting in a garage in a week I am ALL ears $:-\$

Edit: Started up a thread in the general forum for this here
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=49653.0

Edit:
Replaced the smaller diameter fuel line I had (4.8mm) with some larger id hose (6.3mm) and the leaning out issue went away. Still have the 4.8 connecting between the carbs. Stock Honda fuel line is 5.5.

Well, having started it 6 days running now with no problem I'm thinking the issue may be more with leaving it sit for 7 days than with it actually being hard to start. Maybe it takes a little while to fill the bowls once all the gas has evaporated and I'm impatient. One way or another it cranks right up pretty quickly at this point.

Still a little hard to catch when it's been sitting overnight sometimes compared to other bikes I've had and kind of slowly comes to life instead of just suddenly banging away on all four. Removing the choke immediately cures that so maybe I need to turn out the air screws another quarter or something. Maybe I need to try starting it up with no choke and see what that does in comparison. Maybe I need to replace the smaller id lines in between the carbs. Not sure except I won't be pulling the carbs off this summer if I don't absolutely have to.

Edit: May 9
Now I'm starting to wonder if the valves might not be part of the problem (or the adjustment thereof). I did em with the engine out and the valve cover off so I really should have gotten them right but there's a lot of clicking in the top end.

Edit: May 11
The kickstart is your friend. Tried a little experiment today and started it up using the kick. Took about 6 go's but came up a lot faster than using the starter motor. This makes me wonder that I either have an old battery or the charging system isn't quite up to snuff or I'm fouling my plugs or the valves are out of adjustment or some combination of all of the above. Hmmmm.

Edit: June 12
Turns out my valves were out of adjustment. 1 was loose and 4 was tight. Ran through the set again and lo and behold it starts up right away... everytime for a month. Make sure those valves are right

ev0lve · « **Reply #106 on:** April 17, 2009, 11:11:07 PM »

By noon I was ready to kick it and by 3 we were best friends.

Of course when I got it back in the garage and mounted up the headlight thinking I'd take it home I blew the main fuse. Still...

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #107 on:** April 17, 2009, 11:25:43 PM »

The bike sounds great mate, so does thin lizzy in the background....

Mick

ev0lve · « **Reply #108 on:** April 18, 2009, 10:44:07 AM »

It's close to coming out into the world I think. The Thin Lizzy did come up nicely there

ev0lve · « **Reply #109 on:** April 18, 2009, 11:07:55 AM »

So I think the dual's are worked out. The epoxy appliance paint looks pretty good and seems to hold up to brake fluid given that I got a bunch on it

Got the caliper put back together. I got two different manufacturers front pads. The left is EBC and slides right into the caliper like it was made for it

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=195100&store=&catId=&productId=p199457&leafCatId=&mmyId=

The second I can't remember the brand - picked them up at Bent Bike BUT they were tight. I figured it didn't matter much on the first go but this time around I ground off the paint on the pad for the A side so it would slide in and out a little easier.

At any rate the pad is brown and looks like this - don't think I'd buy these twice

Wish I'd done both at once with the same pads

The third MC I got was also a bust. Having the worst luck with eBay on the MC side. So pitched that one and went back to the stock MC.

On the first bleed I ended up with a locked wheel again but adjusted the tensioners out and it freed up.

Walked away and worked on the engine for an hour or two turning the bars left and right so air could work it's way out if it was there and then bled them again.

This was as good as I could get it and where the lever stops. Seems to modulate pretty well - you can feel it grab almost immediately but there's a LONG way to go before the lever hits the end of its travel. I think that's probably normal for a stock MC. The folks that say the stock MC works great never seem to post a picture like this. So here you go. Stock master cylinder - dual calipers

Still a little drag on the right caliper but I suspect it will work itself out with a little use. We'll see.

ev0lve · « **Reply #110 on:** April 18, 2009, 11:23:02 AM »

One more little dual disk tip since I'm hell bent on making ALL the mistakes you can.

Pay attention to the orientation of the speedo gear. I let mine slip into a position I can't get the cable on. Probably have to take the wheel off I think to fix it. You can just see the phillips for tightening it up peaking out from the behind the fork.

BTW, should the speedo gear rotate freely when installed? Mine doesn't and I can't remember at this point.

MCRider · « **Reply #111 on:** April 18, 2009, 01:27:16 PM »

The speedo drive housing should rotateonly if off the bike... till its locked in with the axle tightend down.

You won't need to remove the wheel to re-orient the drive body, (BTW I've done that often) but you may have to lift the forks up a tad, rotate it till the housing where the cable enters is horizontaL, then lower back down and tighten up the caps again. Once properly oriented neither the housing nor the drive tab will rotate. Only with the wheel turning will the cable drive tab turn. Don't force it.

ev0lve · « **Reply #112 on:** April 18, 2009, 01:47:44 PM »

Quote from: MCRider on April 18, 2009, 01:27:16 PM

The speedo drive housing should rotateonly if off the bike... till its locked in with the axle tightend down.

You won't need to remove the wheel to re-orient the drive body, (BTW I've done that often) but you may have to lift the forks up a tad, rotate it till the housing where the cable enters is horizontaL, then lower back down and tighten up the caps again. Once properly oriented neither the housing nor the drive tab will rotate. Only with the wheel turning will the cable drive tab turn. Don't force it.

Ahh, many thanks MCRider!

ev0lve · « **Reply #113 on:** April 23, 2009, 04:18:55 PM »

Well, well. What should arrive today but a package from Goon. I sent him my old brake hoses thinking I'd rack up a little good luck karma and what does he do but send me back these

I think you win an award for super coolness Goon. Many thanks! The levers are freaking beautiful and I'm going to get the badges painted up and on the tank tomorrow. (How're your brakes coming along BTW?)

Speaking of which - a multimeter has been procured so tomorrow all I have to do is get the electrics functioning properly and I'm taking it home! I hope

I've got every wiring diagram I can find including the one from the shop manual and going to pick up a 12v flasher relay (just in case) and extra fuses. How hard can it be?

goon 1492 · « **Reply #114 on:** April 24, 2009, 06:55:46 AM »

Right on brother, I was just wondering if they made it to ya. Those levers might need clear coated, if not just hit em' with a bit of polish everyonce in a while. I spent a bit of time last winter cutting those ball ends off and going to town on them. Again many thanks for the trade.

ev0lve · « **Reply #115 on:** April 24, 2009, 06:58:34 PM »

First: Can't read a wiring diagram? F%$#@ing enlarge it

But more importantly get a multimeter. No lie. Had issues with the headlight and the multimeter cleared it right up. Mostly a matter of finding what's hot and what's not. My stuff was simple but still... Good tool. My non-flashing winkers - bad relay. Replaced it and wink ahoy. All hands on deck or somesuch.

Loosened up the forks and readjusted the speedo drive, installed the cable and it wanted to rub the disc. So... zip ties.

Reattached the freshly painted badges with doubled up trim tape and it looks pretty dang nice. Thanks Goon for the badges. I was going to go without but it's SO much better with and I couldn't bring myself to take the clutch cable off today but since I have some clutch weirdness they'll be on when I deal with that.

Dad couldn't help himself and took a picture. Been at this so long we were both a little sad to see it come to an end. But not really. You know how it is

So I got it out to the road and got it up to 90 some odd according to the speedometer so who knows the real speed. Solid as the proverbial rock. Grinning ear to ear. Shifts well. No popping in the exhaust on downshift. It is literally butter. So smooth. All seems VERY right with the world.

But...

The stock master cylinder works but that's all I'll give it. The crushing your fingers thing trying to brake and feather the throttle - not so much fun when the travel in the lever is that much.

Also, I have A LOT of slop in the throttle cable at idle - meaning at no throttle it will continue backwards. Have to mess with the adjustment on that.

All in all I put about 50 miles on it highway and city. Couple of interesting things happened.

At one point in stop and go traffic (somebody got in a fender bender so mostly stop) I couldn't get it in neutral. Little farther on no problem. What's that all about?

I stopped off in town to grab a coffee and stare at it while smoking my last smokes and when I got through it wouldn't start. This is maybe 20-30 minutes. Turns over fine but acts like it has no spark. Finally ended up turning the off - run - off switch to the rider side and back. Starts right up. Switch problem then? I suppose the multimeter will tell the tale.

Got it home and damn it looks pretty

But the tach seal is a sieve and I have some oil here I can't identify where it's coming from. Base gasket? Time for the foot powder.

Given that I tore it down to NOT have oil leaks I think I've failed for now. But screw it. I'm pretty confident I could take it apart and put it back together in a long weekend at this point and that's really what it was all about from the get go.

I've said it before but a huge thanks to everyone on the board. All the question posters and especially all the question answerers. If it took 8 months to do with the board it probably doesn't get done at all without. Best board I've ever been a part of.

Now to ponder where I can work on this thing now

KB02 · « **Reply #116 on:** April 25, 2009, 05:31:02 AM »

Quote from: Iggy on April 24, 2009, 06:58:34 PM

But the tach seal is a sieve and I have some oil here I can't identify where it's coming from. Base gasket? Time for the foot powder.

First place I would look there would be that oil gallery plug. Could just be an old or incorrectly-sized-new o-ring.

The Bike looks fantastic, by the way. Ride it and be proud!!!!

goon 1492 · « **Reply #117 on:** April 25, 2009, 09:18:11 AM »

It's beautiful, finally the pay off, sort of. A few more gremlins to get rid of and you will be gold. I can't offer much help with the clutch, and that switch your on the right track it will tell you something when you get into it.

ev0lve · « **Reply #118 on:** April 25, 2009, 10:00:38 AM »

Quote from: KB02 on April 25, 2009, 05:31:02 AM

Quote from: Iggy on April 24, 2009, 06:58:34 PM
But the tach seal is a sieve and I have some oil here I can't identify where it's coming from. Base gasket? Time for the foot powder.

First place I would look there would be that oil gallery plug. Could just be an old or incorrectly-sized-new o-ring.

The Bike looks fantastic, by the way. Ride it and be proud!!!!

Wow. I bet your right. Look at that

Seems it had the same leak when I got it and I didn't attend to it while rebuilding. Welp, at least I can get up to the nearest Honda shop to order parts under my own steam now

ev0lve · « **Reply #119 on:** April 25, 2009, 05:47:53 PM »

Hmmm, probably should have been able to see this coming

Zipped the cable off to the tach cable at the bucket and it seems to be better. Lotta tension/flex in that speedo cable once the wheel starts turning.

What's a 34 year old bike without some zip ties on it anyways?

Found a nice puddle of oil under the kickstand rubber today. I think I may have failed to tighten down the chain oiler sufficiently...

DOHC tach seal (cause people say it works better) and oil galley oring on order!

Edit: Started in to wondering if I put the tach seal in facing the right way. As always the board provides

TwoTired says:

Quote from: TwoTired on July 27, 2007, 11:28:44 PM

That's a lip seal and it matters. In this case and in general, seals are installed so that molded in numbers are visible after installation, or facing outward.

Edit:
Yup. The tach and galley seal fixed the leaks on the engine and turning the chain oiler screw all the way in fixed my puddle problem... Yay

papp101 · « **Reply #120 on:** April 29, 2009, 07:05:26 AM »

Read the whole thread, and all I have to say is "DUDE YES."

Great job on everything, and you really helped me with my master cylinder to find out that I misread the diagram and the primary cup goes ON the plunger, not in front.

Much appreciated, keep it up!

ev0lve · « **Reply #121 on:** April 30, 2009, 01:58:40 AM »

Glad it's helpful and I'm not the only one

Toxic · « **Reply #122 on:** June 12, 2009, 11:11:07 AM »

Awesome reading, bumping it up to the top so new guys like me can read it.

You answered alot of questions I was having.

The links are great.

motocyconomad · « **Reply #123 on:** July 22, 2009, 06:08:00 PM »

nice job
very helpfull

ev0lve · « **Reply #124 on:** August 07, 2009, 10:35:45 PM »

Just a little update.

The good:

Applied some anti-squeak to the calipers and installed a 2000 CBR600 master cylinder to replace my stocker. Took a loooooooong time to get fluid through the whole system and out the bleeders - seems like 5+ minutes of pumping away at it - but eventually it worked. Bled out the two calipers and it is sweet. I'm almost afraid if I grab it too hard I'll lock the front but time will tell - maybe I can get a video of a stoppie on this beast.

The bad:

Pressure washed the wheels and couldn't resist taking it to the lower part of the engine. Riding it away it wanted to stutter getting in the throttle and pulling away from a dead stop. I figured it would dry itself out but no. Drained the float bowls as per suggestions. No love. So the bike is back in pop's drydock since Saturday last week.

Today I showed up and went through the tuneup paces. Found that cylinders 2 and 3 were dead. No spark. 1 and 4 are fine.

OK. I have a multimeter

let's check the plug caps and so forth. Battery is 12volts- check. Reading at the points is 11 and some change with the leads on either side - I think that's ok. Plug cap #2 shows 18 ohms and 1 shows 4ish. Wolla! Bad caps. I'll replace them. $20 later I lopped a 1/4 inch off the leads and screwed in the new NGK resistor caps and same deal. Well... crap.

So here's where I start collecting info on how to test points and coils. Maybe it was just time and the pressure washer was a coincidence. Sigh...

Three phase charging system inspection and maintenance for all pre 79 SOHC4
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345

The Ignition, Coils and Plugs FAQ
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=5752.0

Specifically
Coils - What They Do and How To Test Them (thanks TwoTired)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=5752.msg8383#msg8383

Ignition Issues: Out of Ideas
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=55030.0

Specifically
Diagnostic:
At the coil connections, swap the yellow and blue wires (thus swapping the coils) and check for spark on all four. Note, bike will not run like this.

Problem remains with 2/3... bad coil.
Problem moves to 1/4.... problem in points system.
Put yellow and blue wires back where they belong.

Joy

News:

Author Topic: Rebuild for Dummies Redux - v2.0, Mulligan (Read 62000 times)