Author Topic: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!  (Read 11603 times)

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Offline andy750

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2008, 04:24:07 AM »
In my humble opinion the term Corporate Capitalism is closer to the description. The fact that that the American model of corporate capitalism is predominant is no accident. It works, i.e. it makes money. And this also is no accident; Love 'em or hate 'em the yanks have something we europeans sorely lack, and that is a "can-do" mentality. Want your tyres changed at 3am? there's someone that'll do it for you. Want your prescription glasses fixed during yr lunch break? No problem sir.
Here in Europe? Forget it. It's erm, hmmm, I dunno, it's my lunch break, sorry sir we're short staffed today and so on and on and on.
That's why the image of America is so appealing.

While I partly agree with you especially about the Corporate capitalisation comment I think this is actually the problem not the solution and one of the underlying themes of this thread i.e. Starbucks coffee is expensive flavoured water/coffee/milk shakes. The desire to make money at any cost and to find more and more devious ways to do it is ruining the country in the process. Take Wal Mart for instance...they build on the outside of town and before you know it downtown main street is deserted, shut up, as local businesses close in the face of corporate undercutting. I saw this last week quite clearly in Monticello, NY -I had last visited this place in 1992 where it had a bustling downtown main street...back again after 16 years and everything including the bars/pizza shops are closed....oh look a new Wal Mart on the way out of town.

And the example of "change of tires at 3am" - have you lived here? Please come and try and find such a place...it dosent exist (at least not in the places Ive lived/visited and Ive been to 44/50 states. The "can-do" mentality of US v Europe is a myth in modern times. It may have been true post-WW2 but these days....I dont think so...now its Union-controlled and the can-do has been replaced with its-not-my-job or its-going-to-cost you extra or whatever. There are lazy people everywhere and there are entrepeneurs on both sides. The money-making machine that is the US has created the sub-prime housing marking, the credit card debt, the 70% obesity problem (through corporations like MacDonalds, Coke etc that flood the market with cheap crap but are very successful at marketing their product) in some States....is this what you call success? Money cant buy you love  ;)

cheers
Andy
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 04:25:57 AM by andy750 »
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

rhos1355

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #101 on: August 07, 2008, 04:30:07 AM »
If what you say is true, and I strongly suspect it is as I have'nt visited the States in almost 20 years, then a) I'll take my rose tinted prescription glasses off, and b) humbly say I stand corrected.

Offline andy750

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #102 on: August 07, 2008, 04:32:35 AM »
Well Im open to being corrected as well so no worries ;-)

Now lets get out of here and go for a ride  ;D Expresso anyone? ;-)

cheers
Andy

Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

rhos1355

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #103 on: August 07, 2008, 04:34:08 AM »
Well Im open to being corrected as well so no worries ;-)

Now lets get out of here and go for a ride  ;D Expresso anyone? ;-)

cheers
Andy



Race ya to the nearest Starbucks/Macdonalds/KFC. Last one in pays the bill.

Offline 754

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #104 on: August 07, 2008, 05:37:31 AM »
Well put Andy..
 That is the impression I get when I go to the U.S.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2008, 09:57:50 AM »
In my humble opinion the term Corporate Capitalism is closer to the description. The fact that that the American model of corporate capitalism is predominant is no accident. It works, i.e. it makes money. And this also is no accident; Love 'em or hate 'em the yanks have something we europeans sorely lack, and that is a "can-do" mentality. Want your tyres changed at 3am? there's someone that'll do it for you. Want your prescription glasses fixed during yr lunch break? No problem sir.
Here in Europe? Forget it. It's erm, hmmm, I dunno, it's my lunch break, sorry sir we're short staffed today and so on and on and on.
That's why the image of America is so appealing.

While I partly agree with you especially about the Corporate capitalisation comment I think this is actually the problem not the solution and one of the underlying themes of this thread i.e. Starbucks coffee is expensive flavoured water/coffee/milk shakes. The desire to make money at any cost and to find more and more devious ways to do it is ruining the country in the process. Take Wal Mart for instance...they build on the outside of town and before you know it downtown main street is deserted, shut up, as local businesses close in the face of corporate undercutting. I saw this last week quite clearly in Monticello, NY -I had last visited this place in 1992 where it had a bustling downtown main street...back again after 16 years and everything including the bars/pizza shops are closed....oh look a new Wal Mart on the way out of town.

And the example of "change of tires at 3am" - have you lived here? Please come and try and find such a place...it dosent exist (at least not in the places Ive lived/visited and Ive been to 44/50 states. The "can-do" mentality of US v Europe is a myth in modern times. It may have been true post-WW2 but these days....I dont think so...now its Union-controlled and the can-do has been replaced with its-not-my-job or its-going-to-cost you extra or whatever. There are lazy people everywhere and there are entrepeneurs on both sides. The money-making machine that is the US has created the sub-prime housing marking, the credit card debt, the 70% obesity problem (through corporations like MacDonalds, Coke etc that flood the market with cheap crap but are very successful at marketing their product) in some States....is this what you call success? Money cant buy you love  ;)

cheers
Andy

Andy, here in NY you can get your car repaired at 3 am. There are areas in which repair shops cater to the taxi and livery car industry.
Monticello was a real thriving resort area when I was a child and it slowly degraded as the ability of the Jewish population to be welconed in more places increased. It will be on the upswing shorly as they are brining Casino gambling into the racetrack area.
My students are all unionized Railroad workers and they have the mentality you speak of, but, the unions are waning and people are expected to produce in the private sector.
The US is about money, always has been. The Irish, Scots, Germans, Italians, Jews, poles and lately Hispanics and Asians came here to make a buck which they could not do at home.
When I was a kid your old man put money in the Bank and got 2-3%, maybe bought a Municipal Bond that yeilded a few percent tax free. The financial market was a stable place with modest returns and very little risk. Those with some real bucks could go into Mutaul Funds and individual stocks and take some risk.
Once 1970's came along, the average guy was seduced by the Banks and Brokerage Houses into investing in higher yeild and riskier investments the trouble began. The average guy now expected double digit returns on his money and the Fund Managers needed to deliver those returns, due to that you wound up with Junk Bonds, The Savings and Loan crisis, now rhe Mortage meltdown and Credit crunch, any way to get those returns was used in a loosely regulated environment. 
Again, the place is all about money and that leads to greed. I was in subprime lending for 18 months and trust me, my clients were greedy. They talk like victims now, but they really wanted to know how much I could get them, when I had to explain how they needed to pay it back they could care less. I used the commissions I got to pay of my own Mortgage.

     
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

rhos1355

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #106 on: August 07, 2008, 12:15:23 PM »
Your last paragraph, Bobby, spells a well known word: G-R-E-E-D.
Which brings us right back to the original posting in this thread; Starbucks!

Offline dusterdude

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #107 on: August 07, 2008, 12:30:42 PM »
yea,now the government is using my tax money to bail out more idiots.
mark
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #108 on: August 07, 2008, 12:30:56 PM »
Your last paragraph, Bobby, spells a well known word: G-R-E-E-D.
Which brings us right back to the original posting in this thread; Starbucks!
Yes, of course greed drives big business. The stockholders are greedy so they push Corporations for results. Moving Starbucks outside of the US was a logical business move since the local markets are saturated. The timing may be bad and maybe more market research was needed. I will be the first to admit that we Americans are spoiled in some ways. We like to live well. We work so many more hours than most Countries we indulge ourselves with stuff. Most people in the US only get 2-weeks paid vacation and maybe 5-7 days paid sick time, and maybe a couple of personal days. The labor laws are very loose here and the Unions that still exist are very weak with a few exceptions.
  
 
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline kghost

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #109 on: August 07, 2008, 12:31:39 PM »
You guys need to understand something.....

The Starbucks coffee and the price you pay for it in foreign countries is very different

Just returned from Australia and New Zealand....average coffee price for a large coffee = $4.60.

Even ground coffee in the stores was pricey compared to what we pay in the USA.

I've had Starbucks in Spain, France, England.....I think where Starbucks has fallen down is attempting to formulate thier coffee to a regional taste. As Raul says...they have failed miserably at it.

A large coffee at Starbucks is about $2.00 the same volume of coffee from a convenience store is about $1.25. The Starbucks beats the Exxon, Texaco or whatever ...thats for sure.

As a side note....

The only world wide constant I've discovered is McDonalds....tastes the same wherever you go....and thats slightly frightening.

For Terry: Starbucks is like a pimple compared to a cancer called WalMart. When Walmart migrates to Australia your all screwed.....and its coming mate. Sure won't be a good thing.

For the Beer drinkers: Fosters, Heiniken, Stella etc all pale in comparison to a swill foisted on the public as imported and trendy...its called CORONA and its water with color added.

Stranger in a strange land

rhos1355

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #110 on: August 07, 2008, 12:44:44 PM »
For the Beer drinkers: Fosters, Heiniken, Stella etc all pale in comparison to a swill foisted on the public as imported and trendy...its called CORONA and its water with color added.



I beg to differ, mate. I have it from reliable sources that the beer making facilities at the beer factory in Amsterdam consisted of about 700 German Shepherd Dogs that were forcefully hydrated and their pee collected and canned/bottled/barrelled.

Offline kghost

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #111 on: August 07, 2008, 01:02:34 PM »
For the Beer drinkers: Fosters, Heiniken, Stella etc all pale in comparison to a swill foisted on the public as imported and trendy...its called CORONA and its water with color added.



I beg to differ, mate. I have it from reliable sources that the beer making facilities at the beer factory in Amsterdam consisted of about 700 German Shepherd Dogs that were forcefully hydrated and their pee collected and canned/bottled/barrelled.

Hell least they are Pure bred German Sheperds....Corona just rounds up the street mongrels.... :D
Stranger in a strange land

Offline BobbyR

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #112 on: August 07, 2008, 01:21:09 PM »
I used to like Carta Blanca.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline 754

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #113 on: August 07, 2008, 09:11:56 PM »
mexican beer.. SOL..

wuppss .. i mean Cervasa..




Speaking of SBuX, bet I havent gone much more than 200 times... so far...








in 08... ;)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 09:14:56 PM by 754 »
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #114 on: August 07, 2008, 10:44:41 PM »
Anything from Mexico should be treated with suspicion, IMHO. ;D

Hey Tim, the only thing here that Walmart would be competing against is KMart, Safeway, Woolworths etc, so no biggie, in with one US corporation, and out with another, ha ha! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Offline kghost

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #115 on: August 08, 2008, 10:15:02 AM »
Anything from Mexico should be treated with suspicion, IMHO. ;D

Hey Tim, the only thing here that Walmart would be competing against is KMart, Safeway, Woolworths etc, so no biggie, in with one US corporation, and out with another, ha ha! ;D

Oh no....I've seen Kmart in Oz mate...

Walmart doesn't even compete with Kmart here...damn near drove Kmart out of business....

As you know Australia has a lot of what I would characterize as "Mom and Pop" stores...individuals making a living running a store....Maybe its a shoe store...or selling vacuums...or widgets or whatever.....

Soon as Walmart shows up....you can kiss those sole prop. business good-bye. Walmart will make it impossible for them to earn a living.
Stranger in a strange land

Offline BobbyR

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #116 on: August 08, 2008, 10:56:05 AM »
Anything from Mexico should be treated with suspicion, IMHO. ;D

Hey Tim, the only thing here that Walmart would be competing against is KMart, Safeway, Woolworths etc, so no biggie, in with one US corporation, and out with another, ha ha! ;D

Oh no....I've seen Kmart in Oz mate...

Walmart doesn't even compete with Kmart here...damn near drove Kmart out of business....

As you know Australia has a lot of what I would characterize as "Mom and Pop" stores...individuals making a living running a store....Maybe its a shoe store...or selling vacuums...or widgets or whatever.....

Soon as Walmart shows up....you can kiss those sole prop. business good-bye. Walmart will make it impossible for them to earn a living.
This is very true. The supermarkets started it here years ago, then the Department stores chipped away a bit more from the little guy . Now you have these Superstores that gobble up everything in their path.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline mystic_1

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #117 on: August 08, 2008, 01:03:47 PM »
So, I guess you believe that these things happen due to the individual greed of US citizens and have nothing to do with economics of scale or any other factor?

Far be it for me to interrupt the US bashing, but it seems you guys believe that all US citizens are burger-gulping, SUV driving, greedy, uncaring people who cackle with glee when small businesses are put out of business.


mystic_1
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Offline andy750

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #118 on: August 08, 2008, 02:11:14 PM »
Mystic,

I dont have the impression that anyone is bashing individual US citizens for US corporate greed. I think everyone would agree that the average individual citizen (as can be found on this board) is very generous, moral and generally very nice people.

The discussion is centered around the spread of US chains around the world and the sedative effect this has on the rest of the world as we are sold $4 coffees etc.....of course if you want to talk about the individual then you have to address the responsibility of the individual (US and elsewhere) for the "need" for the gas-guzzling SUV, the contribution to the rise of the burger-gulping culture (the obesity rate is obscene IMHO - why cant individuals regulate how much they eat?? this holds true for western Scotland as well), the constant drive to buy new things even when they seemingly have everything already (do you really need to have 4 tvs? 3 cars? the latest phone? the latest computer? 5000 tv channels?  ), the responsibility to read the fine print and not contribute to the sub-prime mess, the responsibility to not max out your $15,000 limit on your credit card (x4 since you have more than one credit card). Im not bashing anyone here but you have to take some responsibility for the action of the individual. The corporations can market and fool you all they want but someones choosing to buy it  ;)

cheers
Andy
   
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline mystic_1

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #119 on: August 08, 2008, 02:22:01 PM »
The corporations can market and fool you all they want but someones choosing to buy it  ;)
   


True, and the evidence would seem to suggest that it's not only US citizens choosing to buy it.

I take responsibility for my own actions, sure.  Why do you seem to think I have an SUV, am overweight, have 4 TV's, 3 cars, the atest phone, the latest computer and 5000 TV channels?  I do read the fine print, my mortage is a 30yr fixed and is in fine shape, thanks, and I don't have $60,000 in credit card debit.

Are you asking me to take personal responsibility for the decisions of other individuals?  No thanks.

Mass consumerism isn't just a US problem.  If you want to really see people who are out to make a quick buck and consequences be damned, perhaps we should be discussing China and their pollution problems.


But that's not nearly so fun as bashing the US I suppose.


mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline andy750

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #120 on: August 08, 2008, 02:31:32 PM »
Mystic you seem to be taking this way too personally. Im not saying you have all those things but as a society many US citizens do or aspire to these items (look on the road for the number of inefficient gas-guzzling SUVS) - so who is creating the problem here? NOT the US citizen who is obesely overweight, drives the SUV, chatting on their Iphone and drinking a Starbucks latte and pops into the local Wal Mart to get some more Chinese-made goods??  ::)

You may have your house in order and thats great for you, but look around...every major bank and finance house in the country is crashing just now because many other US citizens are not like you - they either made bad choices, were greedy or had no clue but its still their responsibility and like it or not it affects you as well....and this is NOT US bashing...same thing is happening in the UK. But I dont see any major UK corporations going round and sucking the life out of small town America.....

cheers
Andy

Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline mystic_1

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #121 on: August 08, 2008, 02:41:56 PM »
Well, you directed questions at me:

Quote
(do you really need to have 4 tvs? 3 cars? the latest phone? the latest computer? 5000 tv channels? )

So I answered.  You then said I had to take responsibility for all these things:

Quote
Im not bashing anyone here but you have to take some responsibility for the action of the individual.

To which I replied that I'm more than willing to take responsibility for my own actions.


BTW it's hard to not see this thread as US bashing when it's title is "YANKEE GO HOME!!"

Guess I'll go home now.

mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
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My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline andy750

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #122 on: August 08, 2008, 02:52:49 PM »
Well, you directed questions at me:

Quote
(do you really need to have 4 tvs? 3 cars? the latest phone? the latest computer? 5000 tv channels? )

So I answered.  You then said I had to take responsibility for all these things:

Quote
Im not bashing anyone here but you have to take some responsibility for the action of the individual.

"YOU" was meant rhetorically...as in "you = the US Citizen, which you had brought up.....but thanks for personally answering. Thanks also for seeing my point and understanding that even though YOU personally take care of your finances and are responsible in your spending habits, sadly this is not a widespread phenomenon in the US otherwise WHY would there be the current housing credit crunch and credit card companies raking in the $$s in high interest? Such actions are not sustainable in any economy. No need to invoke or blame other developing countries in this discussion. Its not relevant. 

Have a good weekend,
cheers
Andy 
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline mystic_1

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #123 on: August 08, 2008, 03:45:14 PM »
Well, when you make sweeping generalizations about classes of people based on negative stereotypes you should expect that someone will be offended by it.

You believe that the MAJORITY of US citizens don't take care of their finances and spend responsibly?  It's not a widespread phenomenon?  Take another look at the numbers, and reconsider if you're unfairly lumping people into your negative stereotype who don't deserve it.

Don't like the concept of $4 coffee?  Don't buy it.  Don't like Walmart?  Don't shop there.  If enough people did this, these companies would not be spreading as they are.  No one is "forcing" these things on you.  It's not an evil conspiracy of greedy overweight americans, however you keep coming back to the "US citizens have all these bad habits" topic.

mystic_1



"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline andy750

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Re: YANKEE (Coffee shops) GO HOME!!!
« Reply #124 on: August 08, 2008, 04:24:27 PM »
Well, when you make sweeping generalizations about classes of people based on negative stereotypes you should expect that someone will be offended by it.

You believe that the MAJORITY of US citizens don't take care of their finances and spend responsibly?  It's not a widespread phenomenon?  Take another look at the numbers, and reconsider if you're unfairly lumping people into your negative stereotype who don't deserve it.

Don't like the concept of $4 coffee?  Don't buy it.  Don't like Walmart?  Don't shop there.  If enough people did this, these companies would not be spreading as they are.  No one is "forcing" these things on you.  It's not an evil conspiracy of greedy overweight americans, however you keep coming back to the "US citizens have all these bad habits" topic.

Tell me then why MOST major US banks have posted phenomenal losses due directly to the sub-prime housing market? Perhaps Ive missed something? Is it because as YOU believe MOST Americans have their finances in order?? Something dosent add up here  ::) (intended pun).

And read my initial post again and you will see I said MOST Americans are generous, easy going nice people (as found on this very Forum). Im not lumping anyone into a negative stereotype -  you seem to be doing a good job of imagining that for yourself since you brought it up. If you can explain to me why banks are posting phenomenal losses, housing markets in nearly every US state have crashed that dosent involve some level of personal responsibility then go ahead. Im open to learning new things.

And I never stated that US Corporations were being "forced" upon us  - I said they were clever in their marketing and if you get fooled into believing it then sure go ahead and shop there/buy the product.....its short term not long term thinking but the individual is STILL responsible for THIS action. Do you really think Wal Mart is good for America? Its an outlet to sell cheaply made goods that come from China, the Philippines etc....so go ahead and buy their cheap products but long term you are only propping up the manufacturing base of another country when your own manufacturing base for the same goods is going bankrupt. 

Finally, go back and read my posts -I mention that buying cheap goods phenomenon is not unique to Americans, so my comments were hardly feeding your perceived "US citizens have bad habits" topic - perish the thought that Americans have bad habits  ::)

Good luck!
cheers
Andy
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350