Author Topic: First post, resurrection of CB750K2  (Read 15194 times)

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Offline ericstew

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2008, 05:14:31 AM »
About your main jets: ???
Early CB750 had 120 main.
Due to emission regulations,numbers went down.
I found 118,115,110,105 on the various carb sets I've bought.
With your K&N air filters and 4-1 exhaust,It makes sense to have bigger jets. ;D
More is air coming trought so you need more gas(=bigger jets) to keep a good ratio.
You might use 120 to lower your MPG.

By the way,you did a great job!  ;)
Can't wait to see your bike completed.
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Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2008, 09:56:31 AM »
I have about 800 miles on this bike so far, am thoroughly enjoying it!
A couple of things I haven't been able to figure out, hopefully some of you more experienced guys can shed some light......

1. Starting a cold motor. Engine starts instantly, can't get off the starter button fast enough! Keeping it running is another story. Warm idle is a smooth 1200-1500 RPM but won't idle cold. Choke does not help. These carbs have yet to be sync'ed.

2. Noisy idle. I've adjusted the cam chain twice using the #1 TDC method and I believe it's adjusted correctly but I still have a rather distinct rattling (non-rhythmic) from the inside of the engine. Perhaps the primary chain? Any danger of wiping the engine out if one of these chains break? Speedometer says 29000 miles, I've buzzed her up to 7500 RPM a couple of times and everything stayed inside. :)

Anybody?

Seems like everything else has loosened up or I adapted to the characteristics of this model bike.
Just needed runnin'.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 10:05:15 AM by Artfrombama »
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Offline Johnny5

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2008, 10:48:41 AM »
I hear if the carbs are out of sync, the engine will be noisier than normal. Im currently working on this issue, myself.

If your bike is anything like mine, it's a cold blooded beast. Mine takes at least 10 minutes to really get warmed up. I cant choke mine all the way, the revs go too high. But at halfway, it stays under 2000k. After its warmed up, I have a decent idle at around 1100k.
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Offline Hush

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2008, 12:51:28 PM »
Sync the carbs and the noise level will drop considerably, these bikes love choke, cold blooded is how I've heard them described. ;D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2008, 05:03:45 PM »
Decided to tackle a rather small but annoying oil leak today, this is what I found;



I know the correct fix is to pull the engine, pull the head, cylinders, and split the case then fashion a patch and have the thing TIG welded..... But epoxy and fiberglass mesh were working pretty well but had separated from the metal. This repair looks to have been done many years ago.
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Offline Johnny5

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2008, 05:17:42 PM »
Holy crap, that looks scary. Like taking a scalpel and peeping behind the ribs of a human being.
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Offline scunny

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2008, 05:53:39 PM »
just patch her up if a rebuild isn't on. I punched a decent hole in my XL250 case on a rock and did a temp repair with epoxy and it's held on well for 8 months
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Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2 *PICS*
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2008, 08:02:23 PM »
Cut and formed a piece of 16ga. sheetmetal to cover the hole and cracks, then glued it down and covered the edges with A-B epoxy putty.
This is the epoxy I used, came highly recommended by my engine guy. (Has a 1 year shelf life, make sure it's fresh)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 05:32:14 PM by Artfrombama »
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Offline Artfrombama

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Re-spoked yesterday
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2008, 01:52:55 PM »
Relaced standard 18" rim using the Parts-N-more spoke kit. Used a dial indicator and running nice and true. Tweaked on the front wheel a little today.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 08:31:41 PM by Artfrombama »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2008, 06:48:15 PM »
Decided to tackle a rather small but annoying oil leak today, this is what I found;



I know the correct fix is to pull the engine, pull the head, cylinders, and split the case then fashion a patch and have the thing TIG welded..... But epoxy and fiberglass mesh were working pretty well but had separated from the metal. This repair looks to have been done many years ago.


Oh, ouch. This is the classic chain-thru-the-case failure, caused by a broken chain in flight. The proper fix is new cases. While I won't have some good extra ones for a while, I have a set that experienced that same failure and were arced back up, looks like they still seal. It was a drag bike. If you want them, let me know: you could have them for the shipping cost. It was an 836cc engine. I can use the space for my new K2 engine's rebuild.

The camchain should be adjusted at 15 degrees PAST TDC when the #1 cylinder's valves are both slack (#4 intake is just starting down). This position is marked by a "corner" on the spark advancer body: set that on the timing pointer, release that adjuster to set.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2008, 08:25:26 PM »
Oh, ouch. This is the classic chain-thru-the-case failure, caused by a broken chain in flight. The proper fix is new cases. While I won't have some good extra ones for a while, I have a set that experienced that same failure and were arced back up, looks like they still seal. It was a drag bike. If you want them, let me know: you could have them for the shipping cost. It was an 836cc engine. I can use the space for my new K2 engine's rebuild.
Thanks HM but if this engine ever has to come out (in my lifetime) for an overhaul I'll have this case fixed....Unless I poke a rod through the case, then I'll IM ya!
Quote
The camchain should be adjusted at 15 degrees PAST TDC when the #1 cylinder's valves are both slack (#4 intake is just starting down). This position is marked by a "corner" on the spark advancer body: set that on the timing pointer, release that adjuster to set.
Someone somewhere posted a picture of aligning the advance spring anchor to the timing pointer which was slightly past #1 (firing) TDC. This is the procedure I used. Pulled the pan off last week and the primary chain and tensioner are fine.
This is a fantastic running bike, just noisy at idle.
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Offline the-chauffeur

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2008, 04:55:17 PM »

Guys

The damage a drive chain can do to the cases is one of the few things that worry me about the engine.  Even more so because I'm missing what's referred to in the fiche as a Protector, Case (part# 11353-300-030).  I believe that it sits around the final drive sprocket (under the left hand side cover) and is positioned where the hole above happened.

Anyone got a picture of one - or better still, a spare?  I've not seen one before, and both Silver's and Honda say that there's no stock and its no longer available.  And so far, I've not seen one come up on eBay. 

Thanks

Neil

Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2008, 08:08:34 PM »

Guys

The damage a drive chain can do to the cases is one of the few things that worry me about the engine.  Even more so because I'm missing what's referred to in the fiche as a Protector, Case (part# 11353-300-030).  I believe that it sits around the final drive sprocket (under the left hand side cover) and is positioned where the hole above happened.

Anyone got a picture of one - or better still, a spare?  I've not seen one before, and both Silver's and Honda say that there's no stock and its no longer available.  And so far, I've not seen one come up on eBay. 

Thanks

Neil
I've wondered about that part myself but with the better quality of drive chains and a little better maintenance we shouldn't need one.
Probably would have saved a lot of engine cases.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2008, 09:33:48 PM »
Honda sold (or gave away) that Protector in 1970 and 1971 as a warranty-aversion device. The Artfrombama incident was pretty common back then, at the chains were not yet up to modern strength. The first sprockets were smaller, too: the front was 16 and the rear 45. All 750s were recalled and a 17 front and 48 rear was fitted, along with an endless drive chain, and the Protector. But, as soon as the chain developed some slack, it would hook into the back edge of the cheesy sheet metal Protector and fold it up and cause another kind of damage, so these were discontinued before 1971 was over. The ultimate solution was to run 18 front sprocket and 48 rear, with endless chains. This effectively overgeared the lower 2 gears so the torque could not exceed the chain strength of the day, and it stopped the damage, although it slowed the bikes down from too tall gearing.

And, mechanics like me HATED the endless chain, as it meant that a simple chain replacement involved removing the rear wheel, shocks, and swingarm. Diamond sprang to the rescue first, with the press-fit master links that were stronger than the chains themselves. Then Reynolds came into the fray with their (ultimate ever) incredibly strong ( and expensive!) chains. Then, Honda tapered their sprocket teeth on the 18/48 sprockets and increased the base circle an extra 0.5mm below the teeth, just when Diamond came out with the chains that had extra hard pins and extra clearance in the rollers, along with case-hardened (Rockwell 65 minimum) rollers. This combination proved to be the best, longest-lasting, smoothest, quietest drive ever on these bikes. I've ridden this combination as far as 40,000 miles on a single set of chain & sprockets.
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Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2008, 10:11:54 AM »
New Bridgestone Battalax skins...Smoooooth and sticky.

Question;
Is this the correct chain guard? From eBay
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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2008, 08:03:00 PM »

Question;
Is this the correct chain guard?

Yep. It was extended in length on the last of the K0 when it changed from plastic to steel, then again on the K2 to prevent the black racing stripes some of us were wearing up the left back of our jackets.  ::)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2008, 08:15:52 AM »
Bike runs fine around town and accelerates without a sputter to 80mph. If I give it full throttle anywhere north of 70mph it's like I "hit a wall", won't pick up speed and if I hold WOT the engine starts to drop cylinders and slow down. If I let off the throttle to maybe 2/3 throttle the engine clears up and accelerates back to  where I started.
Feels like I'm running out of gas.
Didn't notice this when I had the K&N pods, I now have a stock air box and emco filter.
Main jets are 125's (110's and 115's on the way).
Did a plug chop, plugs seemed a little dark but not gassed up.
points set at .014"
New plugs gapped to .024"

Does this sound like too much main jet??
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Offline DollarBill

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2008, 08:56:13 AM »
I had the same problem with my 350 Twin and went two sizes smaller on the main jet and it feels like a completely different bike.  The PO put bigger jets in thinking he needed it for pods but it was WAY RICH.  Might be a different problem for you but worth a shot going smaller.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2008, 09:48:45 AM »
Does this sound like too much main jet??
yes.

As a test, you can remove the filter element to see if the symptom improves.

Air filtration restriction effects the depth of vacuum in the carb throats.  More restriction = more vacuum = more fuel draw with any given size orifice.

If you have a thick milk shake, is it easier to draw through a small straw or a large one?

Basically speaking, the engine displacement determines the amount of air drawn by the engine.  And, the vacuum level (and jet orifice size) in the carb throat determines how much fuel is delivered relative to that volume of air.  When the ratio changes either too lean or too rich, combustion ceases, and no deposits form on the spark plug electrodes during these events.

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Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2008, 10:15:20 AM »
Does this sound like too much main jet??
yes.

As a test, you can remove the filter element to see if the symptom improves.

I did, no difference. Should have went back and tried the pods but the upper box was such a pain in the ass to get on.

Quote
Air filtration restriction effects the depth of vacuum in the carb throats.  More restriction = more vacuum = more fuel draw with any given size orifice.

If you have a thick milk shake, is it easier to draw through a small straw or a large one?

Basically speaking, the engine displacement determines the amount of air drawn by the engine.  And, the vacuum level (and jet orifice size) in the carb throat determines how much fuel is delivered relative to that volume of air.  When the ratio changes either too lean or too rich, combustion ceases, and no deposits form on the spark plug electrodes during these events.

Understood. What throws me is the color of the plugs, I think the 10% methanol affects the plug color.

Quote
Cheers,

Thanks! ;D
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2008, 01:58:09 PM »
Remember there are three main fuel delivery paths in these carbs.
The slow system, the throttle valve, and the main (which feeds the throttle valve).

It is possible to have too rich a main and a lean throttle valve setting.  Then the plugs will not give a pure indication, if you are using more than one fuel delivery vehicle.

Warm it up, put in clean plugs, and then do the WOT blast, chop the ignition, throttle and pull in clutch simultaneously, THEN pull the plugs for a reading of your main jet mixture.  If you operate on the throttle valve AND the main, your plugs read the average of the two operating modes.

Cheers,
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2008, 08:13:11 PM »
Bike runs fine around town and accelerates without a sputter to 80mph. If I give it full throttle anywhere north of 70mph it's like I "hit a wall", won't pick up speed and if I hold WOT the engine starts to drop cylinders and slow down. If I let off the throttle to maybe 2/3 throttle the engine clears up and accelerates back to  where I started.
Feels like I'm running out of gas.
Didn't notice this when I had the K&N pods, I now have a stock air box and emco filter.
Main jets are 125's (110's and 115's on the way).
Did a plug chop, plugs seemed a little dark but not gassed up.
points set at .014"
New plugs gapped to .024"

Does this sound like too much main jet??

Art, there's another possibility: the emulsifier air bleed tubes may be partially blocked. This is that tiny little brass jet-like opening in the inlet air horn side of the carb: it goes forward about 1/4", then down 1/8", then forward again to the mainjet holder (aka emulsifier tube). It bikes that sit for a few years, a white powder (like a light corrosion) builds up inside this passage and the air won't bubble the fuel in the mainjet emulsifier at throttle openings over 3/4 open. This sounds mighty close to the symptoms you describe.

To clean: remove the mainjet holder/emulsifier tube and the needle jet (this is the brass tube that sticks up into the carb throat and receives the moving needle jet on the slide). This needle jet just presses out, once the emulsifier tube is removed. Now, you can push a 26 AWG mechanic's wire (flexible type) in that little brass hole and around those inside corners, from the air horn to the emulsifier tube's opening. Do it several times and you will see crud start to appear in the emulsifier holder area: use the wire like a scraping tool to break it up, then spray some carb cleaner or brake cleaner thru (horn-to-tube direction only), do it again. It only takes a 15% blockage in this passage to make the top end RPM unattainable.

This is VERY common in these bikes, if they sat for 2 years or more. Sorry, but it means you must take the carbs off, and maybe even loose from the mount, to do it.  :-\
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2008, 09:54:53 PM »
Bike runs fine around town and accelerates without a sputter to 80mph. If I give it full throttle anywhere north of 70mph it's like I "hit a wall", won't pick up speed and if I hold WOT the engine starts to drop cylinders and slow down. If I let off the throttle to maybe 2/3 throttle the engine clears up and accelerates back to  where I started.
Feels like I'm running out of gas.
Didn't notice this when I had the K&N pods, I now have a stock air box and emco filter.
Main jets are 125's (110's and 115's on the way).
Did a plug chop, plugs seemed a little dark but not gassed up.
points set at .014"
New plugs gapped to .024"

Does this sound like too much main jet??

Art, there's another possibility: the emulsifier air bleed tubes may be partially blocked. This is that tiny little brass jet-like opening in the inlet air horn side of the carb: it goes forward about 1/4", then down 1/8", then forward again to the mainjet holder (aka emulsifier tube). It bikes that sit for a few years, a white powder (like a light corrosion) builds up inside this passage and the air won't bubble the fuel in the mainjet emulsifier at throttle openings over 3/4 open. This sounds mighty close to the symptoms you describe.
Yes, the second time I had these carbs apart the emulsifier tube "well" was full of that powdery, scaly crud. I used a .22 gun bore brush in a drill motor to clean it out. Several of the small holes in the mainjet holder were blocked with this stuff.
Quote

To clean: remove the mainjet holder/emulsifier tube and the needle jet (this is the brass tube that sticks up into the carb throat and receives the moving needle jet on the slide). This needle jet just presses out, once the emulsifier tube is removed. Now, you can push a 26 AWG mechanic's wire (flexible type) in that little brass hole and around those inside corners, from the air horn to the emulsifier tube's opening. Do it several times and you will see crud start to appear in the emulsifier holder area: use the wire like a scraping tool to break it up, then spray some carb cleaner or brake cleaner thru (horn-to-tube direction only), do it again. It only takes a 15% blockage in this passage to make the top end RPM unattainable.
Like this; >CLICK<
Quote

This is VERY common in these bikes, if they sat for 2 years or more. Sorry, but it means you must take the carbs off, and maybe even loose from the mount, to do it.  :-\
Getting this bike running properly has been challenging. I've learned lots so far.
I think when the mainjets come in I'll pull the carbs off and have a look at those emulsion tubes.
Is there any chemical that will dissolve this residue and stop the corrosion? Will it always be something to contend with?
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2008, 05:58:45 AM »
Art, there's another possibility: the emulsifier air bleed tubes may be partially blocked. This is that tiny little brass jet-like opening in the inlet air horn side of the carb: it goes forward about 1/4", then down 1/8", then forward again to the mainjet holder (aka emulsifier tube). It bikes that sit for a few years, a white powder (like a light corrosion) builds up inside this passage and the air won't bubble the fuel in the mainjet emulsifier at throttle openings over 3/4 open. This sounds mighty close to the symptoms you describe.
Yes, the second time I had these carbs apart the emulsifier tube "well" was full of that powdery, scaly crud. I used a .22 gun bore brush in a drill motor to clean it out. Several of the small holes in the mainjet holder were blocked with this stuff.
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To clean: remove the mainjet holder/emulsifier tube and the needle jet (this is the brass tube that sticks up into the carb throat and receives the moving needle jet on the slide). This needle jet just presses out, once the emulsifier tube is removed. Now, you can push a 26 AWG mechanic's wire (flexible type) in that little brass hole and around those inside corners, from the air horn to the emulsifier tube's opening. Do it several times and you will see crud start to appear in the emulsifier holder area: use the wire like a scraping tool to break it up, then spray some carb cleaner or brake cleaner thru (horn-to-tube direction only), do it again. It only takes a 15% blockage in this passage to make the top end RPM unattainable.
Like this; >CLICK<
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This is VERY common in these bikes, if they sat for 2 years or more. Sorry, but it means you must take the carbs off, and maybe even loose from the mount, to do it.  :-\
Getting this bike running properly has been challenging. I've learned lots so far.
I think when the mainjets come in I'll pull the carbs off and have a look at those emulsion tubes.
Is there any chemical that will dissolve this residue and stop the corrosion? Will it always be something to contend with?

Yep, this powdery stuff looks just like that. Its origination: when we all had MTBE in our gas (thanks to the EPA, circa 1980s), it damaged the surface of the zinc-zamac castings all through the fuel system, like in that petcock, the carb bowls, and this passage I'm describing. Once it's all cleaned out, it will be OK. The damage actually arrived when the bike was allowed to dry out without being protected with oil or Sta-bil or something similar: the MTBE left behind an acidic residue that reacts with humidity to corrode off some of the zinc component in the metal. That's the zinc oxide you see everywhere, the white powder.
I knew this was happening back then, and would store my bike "wet" over the winter, opening the petcock every week or so to let new fuel into the bowls and keep them from developing this powder. But, I had cancer in 2001 and didn't ride again until 2005, and the damage arrived big time because I didn't add some oil to the tank and fuel before I drained everything out (bad move).

So, somewhere in this massive website, around 2005 or 2006, I did a pix-by-pix narrative on how to clean this stuff out of this tiny passage. I haven't been able to find it since one of the big site crashes, though. I can't remember how to search for it, or I'd give you the link.  :-[
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Artfrombama

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Re: First post, resurrection of CB750K2
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2008, 05:51:41 PM »
For the third time;
Pulled the carbs, disassembled, soaked and rodded the elusive "air bleed" passage as per Hondaman.
Tapped three needle jets/bushings out with a wood dowel (one refused to budge) then proceeded to clean the passages. There was some residue and a little dirt.
Buttoned them back up with #110 main jets, problem solved!
 
WooHoo! ;D
Halfassed machinist
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