Topic: Turn signal buzzer

[kpier883]

My '74 750 has one.  I disconnected it.  One reason was because at rest, the blinkers wouldn't blink.  I wanted to see if they would do better without the extra draw of the buzzer.  It helped to disconnect it.  Plus I didn't like the sound it made.  I think it confused people - Is he blowing his horn?

[Dbarker]

As a thought, I have a 73.... could the buzzer be hooked up to my bike without much trouble?  I don't have the cancle button, but I'm sure that could be easily worked out......

I'd like to have the buzzer.... maybe a different style of buzzer from a car... any 12v one should work yes?  Im betting a less  loud one could be put in its place...  cheaply too s just about ever car in every junkyard would have a buzzer of some sort...

[cafe750]

It's great when there are more than one bike with the beeper, waiting at a light...it's the most annoying concert ever. When my dad and my brother ride with me, people look around, wondering where in the word the evil sounds are coming from...

[Odge]

Cut the wires and tape them up- you can't hear it with a helmet on going at any speed, and sitting at a traffic light with it buzzing away gives feelings of dorkiness to the rider, which could result in a crash.

[Steve F]

Seems pretty humorous that the ones with the least tolerance for the noisy turn buzzer, also have the loudest pipes.

I suppose it's all a matter of who the noise is directed at, and which noise is considered "manly".

It all boils down to "what kind of music you like"....hip-hop (buzzer) or ZZ Top (pipes). 

[jmckinne]

... has anyone come up with a better alternative to the dim-ass dash light/buzzer combo?

I used to have  NEV's (Neighboorhood Electric Vehicle) in Florida and wrench on them for others too. They lacked auto cancelling turn signals just like bikes, which is the problem the buzzer is trying to address. People were always leaving the signals on forever, especially me. I wired up a little circuit from Radio Shack parts that put a timer on the flasher circuit and then shut it off. Your switch got routed into the timer circuit which had a couple of TI 555 timer chips in it. They drove a relay which they kept closed for ~30 seconds. The relay provided the juice to the flasher circuit, instead of your switch.

People bought them from me in droves, and eventually Chrylser (maker of GEM Nevs: www.gemcars.com) came and looked at it too. My circuit board and cover assembly was biggish.  It was made to go behind the dash on a car, so it would be a bit hard to hide on a bike. The circuit was very simple tho so a smaller verion would be easy to make.

My bike has the stock buzzer and I keep it working, I'm not any better at remembering they're on than I was when I needed to make a reminder for the NEV

[Steve F]

I remember a few years ago that YAMAHA had auto cancelling turn signals that worked on the principle of counting tire revolutions and would shut off after a preset count was reached.  I wondered how this would work if you were just changing lanes ??

[TwoTired]

Cut the wires and tape them up- you can't hear it with a helmet on going at any speed, and sitting at a traffic light with it buzzing away gives feelings of dorkiness to the rider, which could result in a crash.

Cutting the wires only affirms your destructive dorkiness, particularly if your selected tool is a hatchet or butter knife.  The buzzer can simply be disconnected where it plugs into harness.  No tape needed and (should you have a moment of clarity) can be reconnected, perhaps by the person you are going to sell the bike to (after the crash, of course.)

 

[heffay]

Seems pretty humorous that the ones with the least tolerance for the noisy turn buzzer, also have the loudest pipes.

I suppose it's all a matter of who the noise is directed at, and which noise is considered "manly".

not sure if that was aimed at me but don't really care... i bought the bike the way it is, although i would not change a thing... including the ridiculously loud pipes or by re-installing the buzzer.

if my pipes bother you DON'T RIDE WITH ME.
if your buzzer buzzes at me I'LL PROBABLY LOOK AT YOU AT EVERY INTERSECTION AND WONDER WHY YOUR BIKE IS MAKING FOREIGN NOISES.

i think that a buzzer would promote laziness... about every 5-10 seconds my thumb involuntarily jumps over to check the signals... yes, i leave a signal on, on occasion, but for the most part, i do not.  why should my old vintage bike have a buzzer when none of my others do nor have they EVER?  i'm not saying my 350 never had one... i'm only saying that none of my bikes, while i've owned them, have ever had a buzzer.

i could understand this if every bike ever made had one, or a majority of cars had them... but they don't.  just stop being every other douchebag on the highway that leaves their signal on and just pay attention... get in the habit of checking to make sure its off.  don't wait until something tells you to do something.  the little old lady pulling in front of you is certainly not going to be holding a sign telling you that she's a stupid #$%* and you should VEER.

so, don't say i'm trying to be manly and i won't call you a dork.  the stereotyping needs to end.  if i was worried about manliness, i don't think i would be riding a cb350f that i have appropriately named "baby".  i don't need a motorcycle to help convey my badassery!   

[Ichiban 4]

Well..

For whatever reason..the discussion about whether or not to have buzzers [actually they're beepers..not buzzers]..seems to be split between the "freedom from/to" group..and the "practical-utilitarian" group.

Note that you don't see them on bikes anymore..so for whatever reason..practical or economic..they obviously weren't considered popular enough to keep installing.

And..I would simply say that whether or not they were installed primarily as reminders to riders to turn-off their turn signals [in the Honda Owners book they describe the function of the beepers more as a warning signal to others (those fastideous Japanese engineers)..sort of like the back-up beepers now common/required on larger trucks, buses, etc.]..they DO function to make others more aware of your presence (like cars, pedestrians nearby).

So..with myself @ least..rather than quibbling about the possible annoyance of hearing the beeper..I welcome the increased awareness, visibility by others..and hence greater margin of safety that I feel they afford.

Ichi

[fmctm1sw]

Seems pretty humorous that the ones with the least tolerance for the noisy turn buzzer, also have the loudest pipes.

I suppose it's all a matter of who the noise is directed at, and which noise is considered "manly".

about every 5-10 seconds my thumb involuntarily jumps over to check the signals...      

That's kind of what I do.  I didn't even know a buzzer existed on these bikes.  The one in my Buick Roadmaster came on once and put me into a full scale panic...

[Jonesy]

As a thought, I have a 73.... could the buzzer be hooked up to my bike without much trouble?  I don't have the cancle button, but I'm sure that could be easily worked out......

For the '73 (and subsequent models), the turn signal button has two "zones" for L and R. If you move the switch far enough to trigger the signals but not lock the switch into the "on" position (in other words, you have to keep your thumb on the switch in order to make the signals function), the signals will blink, but the buzzer will stay quiet. This is the "passing" mode. If the switch is moved all the way over so it stays on without thumb pressure, then the beeping will accompany the blinkers.

From the manual:

[bradweingartner]

I have considered a micro-switch at the Zero-position on the handlebars. It takes an edge signal, either switching off to on, or on to off to open the turn relay which only gets reset if the handle-switch is put back to the neutral position.

But I do like the timer solution too.

In either case, I still have my buzzer and if anything it's trained me to be more aware of the turn signal. Because the wind going through my helmet sometimes kinda sounds like my buzzer so I check it quite often now!

[dustyc]

The turn buzzer is powered by it's own voltage source.  Whether it is connected or not does not change the winking speed.

That's interesting.  I guess it was just some coincidence that my signals quit flashing when I unhooked the beeper.  They still work when partially switched(in the A region of the diagram), just not when the beeper should be working.   I'm going to reconnect it and see if they work again.  Then disconnect it again because it bothers me.  No machismo involved, it just bothers me.

It all boils down to "what kind of music you like"....hip-hop (buzzer) or ZZ Top (pipes). 

I should hook up four or five -Devo fan.   

[jmckinne]

It takes an edge signal, either switching off to on, or on to off to open the turn relay which only gets reset if the handle-switch is put back to the neutral position.

brad-

The front part of my circuit was basically that. There was a "front side" relay that would provide power to the rest of the circuit only as long as you had the signal switch in the L or R positon. You also had to have the two 555 chips power signals tied to the reset signal on the other 555 so if you were signalling left and then took a quick right the new signal caused the left signal to cancel early.

I ran them as independent circuits basically that shared the 12 volt line, but the onboard voltage was fed separately and regulated to +5 to accomodate the IC's and other low voltage components. After the regulator, the 555's and the relays, you just needed a couple capacitor/resistor pairs to set the timing on the 555's.

Maybe I should think about putting together a cycle sized one. The trick is you need to use surface mount components and a custom printed circuit board. I had room to spare so I was liquid etching my own boards and putting lots of room between components. Total home brew. Optimized it would be .25 to .50 cent piece size, probably go right in the headlight bowl.

[bradweingartner]

It takes an edge signal, either switching off to on, or on to off to open the turn relay which only gets reset if the handle-switch is put back to the neutral position.

brad-

The front part of my circuit was basically that. There was a "front side" relay that would provide power to the rest of the circuit only as long as you had the signal switch in the L or R positon. You also had to have the two 555 chips power signals tied to the reset signal on the other 555 so if you were signalling left and then took a quick right the new signal caused the left signal to cancel early.

I ran them as independent circuits basically that shared the 12 volt line, but the onboard voltage was fed separately and regulated to +5 to accomodate the IC's and other low voltage components. After the regulator, the 555's and the relays, you just needed a couple capacitor/resistor pairs to set the timing on the 555's.

Maybe I should think about putting together a cycle sized one. The trick is you need to use surface mount components and a custom printed circuit board. I had room to spare so I was liquid etching my own boards and putting lots of room between components. Total home brew. Optimized it would be .25 to .50 cent piece size, probably go right in the headlight bowl.

Sounds like you're speaking my language. I've worked with the 555 a few times in the past, but moved on from them long ago. You could most likely achieve everything your brilliant circuit did with a third of the component count by going with a basic programmable micro-controller.

I know what you're thinking - overkill for something like this. And maybe you're a little bit right. But they are SO cheap now, and the BASIC stamp clones are ridiculously easy to program for a project like this.

I'm most familiar with the PICAXE chips personally. Essentially a PICmicro chip with a basic interpreter bootloader installed from the factory. No Prom burning, no assembly language to learn, just in-circuit load the BASIC script and go.

http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/

Worth a peek. Would allow you to do very flexible timing of the events, eliminate a ton of components and allow in-circuit changes to adjust all the settings. People have called it the 555 of the modern day or something like that :-) I think the most basic chip comes in around $4. Way more than a bulk 555, but infinitely more useful!

As for the PCB, I don't mind home-etching boards if they are surface mount. It's those pesky through holes that drive me nuts drilling. 

[TwoTired]

Seems pretty humorous that the ones with the least tolerance for the noisy turn buzzer, also have the loudest pipes.

I suppose it's all a matter of who the noise is directed at, and which noise is considered "manly".

not sure if that was aimed at me but don't really care... i bought the bike the way it is, although i would not change a thing... including the ridiculously loud pipes or by re-installing the buzzer.

It wasn't aimed at you.  Just the attitude.  If the shoe fits wear it.  But, then when wasn't it "all about you"?

if my pipes bother you DON'T RIDE WITH ME.

I don't and won't ride with motorcycle pipes that I feel damage my ears.  You may think you are impervious to hearing loss when you are young.  But, you should also take a course in reading lips.

if your buzzer buzzes at me I'LL PROBABLY LOOK AT YOU AT EVERY INTERSECTION AND WONDER WHY YOUR BIKE IS MAKING FOREIGN NOISES.

Cool, I'll probably think you're just admiring my bike.  (Oh wait, we won't be riding together).

i think that a buzzer would promote laziness... about every 5-10 seconds my thumb involuntarily jumps over to check the signals... yes, i leave a signal on, on occasion, but for the most part, i do not.  why should my old vintage bike have a buzzer when none of my others do nor have they EVER?  i'm not saying my 350 never had one... i'm only saying that none of my bikes, while i've owned them, have ever had a buzzer.

Actually, the turn beeper promotes honesty.  It keeps me from lying to other drivers about what actions I'm planning to take.  This simply isn't important to some riders, I suppose.  Seemingly the same ones that don't care enough about others to intrude into their lives with rediculous, junvenile, un-beneficial, un-warranted decibels.  I don't always need the turn beeper, but sometimes I do.

i could understand this if every bike ever made had one, or a majority of cars had them... but they don't. 

No you couldn't understand. You simply don't want to to.  Cars have self canceling turn sigs, so do some bikes.  These don't need beepers.  But, of course, you'll say they are lazy and the self canceling features should be removed from all vehicles so the drivers won't become "lazy".  Newer bikes don't have them because the "image" the buyers want, don't include much about highway safety.  Makers create what buyers buy, unless the government steps in to make things mandatory.
Honda learned that the daredevil set didn't want no stinkin' turn beeper, safety crap.

so, don't say i'm trying to be manly and i won't call you a dork.  the stereotyping needs to end.  if i was worried about manliness, i don't think i would be riding a cb350f that i have appropriately named "baby".  i don't need a motorcycle to help convey my badassery!   

I've never been able to convince you of anything, Hef.  I don't expect a change of reason from you.  If anything you stereotyped yourself, just as much as I have.  I don't need anyone's approval to bolster my self image.
What I'm trying to do, is help keep the roads just a bit safer and more welcome to all motorcyclists.  I believe the beeper encourages "trust" from other drivers, and quiet pipes reduce animosity towards all motorcyclists.

Your goals may vary, but I expect runs along the lines of "Hey, it's all about me and what I want, screw everyone else and what makes them happy  ".

Ride safe!
Just do it in another state, OK?

[heffay]

already have somewhat serious hearing damage... maybe thats why i just don't care about my loud pipes.  have to read lips often as i can't make out consonants.  b and v, m and n, t and p, and so on and so on... all sound the same.

obviously, you and edbikerii just don't understand how not to make jabs at people stereotypically. 

you've gunned at me 2tired and i've gunned at you... its not your ideas most of the time its the way you put them onto the page. 





i'm done, i'll "buzz" off.   
or is that beep?  btw, every one that i've heard sounds like a buzz, including yours ichi, but maybe thats just hearing damage.

[jmckinne]

lol brad-

I've used both the Basic Stamp Family and the OoPic in robotics applications. I can't remember if the OOPic came before the PicAxe or after but both branched off from the PIC family and integrated language components on-chip. In the OoPic case it was "object oriented" p-code obects you were coding with. I've never used the PicAxe tho.

You're dead right about their utility here. I know for instance that the OoPic had two onboard software controlled VRegs, but I'm not sure I'd trust them with something as spikey as an MC electrical system. I think ~+15 was as high as they were rated for input voltages. The output latches I wouldn't trust going straight to the MC either, and I don't remember if they were rated to 12 volts anyway.

1) So (maybe) keep the external VREG.
2) Depending on the version the Stamp and the Pic have 2-16 timer latches I think, so do your timer circuits in software.
3) 2 auto quality relays circuits for the interface to bike signal circuits, triggered by output pins on the CPU.
4) Optionally you could eliminate the electronic flasher on the bike and just trigger the whole flash from the CPU -> Relay connection too. That saves using the old wire run to the stock flasher and you could ensure the flasher interval remained constant at any engine RPM. You might take some strain off the charging system at idle doing that.

So the total component count is < 5.

Your board etching skills sound much better than mine - mine always looked like crap!

So we draw the circuit out, write a ~100 line program, send it out to one of the component builders (one of those from CAD to Fab places) and the world beats a path to our doors

Older bikers in particular would be interested I think. I leave the warning buzzer on only because I'm too stupid to remember to turn off my signals myself.

[bradweingartner]

I'm personally a real big fan of point #4.

Another thought would be to eliminate the relays all together and jump to a cheap FET/Transisitor. Overall reliability would likely go up and form factor way down. Plus I have a whole gaggle of IRL-510 or 530s I think I robbed from a Rockford Amp once upon a time so maybe I'm partial... I'll have to refresh my memory on which junction type is best for the type of on-time we're dealing with. Definitely don't need the switching speed of a FET.

The PIC controlled flash timer would be fantastic for people converting to LEDs (myself included).

And don't give me too much credit on the etching skills. I have a few test boards and a few application boards under my belt. I'm pretty handy with the board design software though. Some of these new companies make it way easy with their own PCB software, cause clicking "Buy" is still WAY easier than home-etching! 

Something to look into for sure.

[jmckinne]

brad-

I've only used MOS/Fets in motor speed controls and they were spendier than an electronic relay back then but if they compete price wise now I'm certainly game.

1) The PicAxe 08M looks like the cheapest uCPU out there, but would definately need regulated voltage in and couldn't drive the flasher circuit directly. I don't think any of the microcontrollers are rated for that much current, but it would be nice. The Stamp says it can drive up to 15v in & out but I wouldn't trust it and the amperage is to low in any case.

I've got development environments for the OOPic and the Stamp. I could get one for the straight up Pic or the PicAxe, freeware being best of course. So how about you do the drafting on the PCB and I'll write the code ?

[bradweingartner]

I'll be back in my shop late next week and I'll whip up a circuit on the breadboard and if it all works out I'll draw up the schematic and PCB layout.

Looking at it, a 4amp rated FETs can be had for half-a-buck easy. I'm going to have to brush up though, mostly all my experience is with n-channel FETs driving inductive loads... I'm leaning towards a p-channel to keep the wiring harness as stock as possible. There seems to be little fragments left in my head about this stuff but it's been a while!

Just brainstorming out right now..

[lone*X]

I have not read this entire thread in detail yet and others may have mentioned it but for what it is worth this is what I have on my VTX and it will work with any seat.  Installation is simple and would be even more so for those who are re-doing their seat.  No noise, no distractions.  You just feel the blinkers in the seat of your pants.

http://www.blinkerbuddy.com/

[jmckinne]

Sounds good.

That looks pretty cool too Lone-X. The seat mod is kind of a buzz kill tho. With these add-on gizmos the ease of installation is what makes them sell or not...

[Deltarider]

For long (holiday) trips, I usually connect that buzzer to the wire of the oil light. Makes it audible, when pressure drops. I never use it as a turn signal buzzer.