Topic: 1973 CB350F "Freakshow Build" completed! Stay tuned for updates...

[hoodellyhoo]

I got K&L kits for my 350F, but I had a problem with the carb bowl gaskets swelling after I took them apart after the rebuild to change jets.

K&L and Keyster kits are virtually the same but the costs are different. I got them here http://www.siriusconinc.com/default.asp but you can get them at many places so shop around.

Here's a pic of the K&L kit so you can see what comes in it. Just be sure that if you get an aftermarket kit, use the original Honda 'needle' as a few members have found that their profiles are different.



 Matt.

When I first joined here there were many debates going on about the questionable quality of Keyster carb kits (of course I found this out after I buy of them). The air screw and the spring that sits underneath them are both made of brass so that when you turn the screw to adjust it, it scrapes on the spring sending small brass shavings into the carbs (aka not good). There is also a difference in the tapering of the slide needle ( I think oem is more gradual). Because of these reasons I ended up using only the gaskets in my Keyster kits. Besides, it's not like the old stuff was worn out anyways.

From what I understand, the K&L carb kits cost more because they are higher quality. (ie,  air screws aren't made from brass). They seem to come highly recommended from members here.

[Artfrombama]

The air screw and the spring that sits underneath them are both made of brass so that when you turn the screw to adjust it, it scrapes on the spring sending small brass shavings into the carbs (aka not good).

<= x2

[Tim in Ohio]

Thanks Matt , Art and Hoodely,
I went ahead and ordered the K&L Kit from here:

http://www.motorcycleproshop.com/detail.asp?product_id=18-2417

Good tip on shopping around Matt, it ended up saving me at least $17 altogether for the 4 kits.  I was gonna try to do the carb cleanup on the cheap and just get some new O rings...  Went to three places today looking for those little o rings.  The Honda place wanted to sell me 4 kits for $40 or so each.  The Yamaha place said "we don't sell individual o-rings, but we could try to order the jets and they should come with o rings.  The Kawasaki place did sell o rings, but after going thru his supply, the kid found some that seemed to be the right circumference, but they were too fat.
I decided that if I want to dance, I'm just gonna have to pay the piper.  I should have them in 7 to 10 days.
I went ahead and reassembled carb #1 and hooked it back onto the rail.
Does anyone else think the Clymer manual is SORELY lacking when it comes to the part on disassembling the carbs???  They tend to leave out mentioning alot of little pins and dowels and springs that come out when you remove this part or that part.  The good news is I followed Hoodely's example that he mentioned in his rebuild and took TONS of pics, at every step and from all angles.  Made it a breeze to reassemble.

Art:  I agree with you.  Carb cleaner just seems to do the trick a little better for me than simple green. 

Well guys.  I am now waiting to hear back from the machine shop on where my parts stand versus wear limits.  And I am waiting a week for Carb kits.  I guess I'll just sit back and watch your projects for a few days.  Probably no more updates until next week.  Don't forget to rejoin me when we start back up...  I gotta get the darn thing put back together you know!   

[mattcb350f]

Ahhhhhh the old brass screw problem  I forgot about that one. Good point hoodellyhoo & Art 



So we play the waiting game now eh' Tim  I used that time to compile a list of parts sources while I did my project. Also built an Microsoft Excell spread sheet w/price quotes on each part I needed to make things simpler.

And yes....... Clymer doesn't tell you everything but neither does the Honda manual for that matter    The Honda manual is better though and I believe you can download it somewhere on here.

 Matt.

[hs2k007]

I am going to start my CB350F restore and this post will be helpfull.  I do not want to pull the engine apart, but may need to, as I have an oil leak around the top and lower end.  Can I replace the gaskets without getting in to deep?  I as well need to service the carbs so all this info is great.  My project was only going to be a update 1 part at a time, but if the motor comes out, I will frame off the bike.  I purchased two motors with the bike so I can test on the other motor.  Is there anyone who I can send the motor to to have it rebuilt/reworked/cleaned?

[Tim in Ohio]

HS2k007,
Thanks for checking in.  Yes, I am certain that you could pay someone to do the work you want done. 
I am starting on the carb rebuild tomorrow.  I will post my pics and updates for you to follow.
I am getting a little annoyed with the machine shop.  They still "haven't gotton to it" after two weeks.  If they don't get to it this week, I will go pick it up and make the investment in some gauges, calipers, etc. and check measurements against wear limits myself.
Tim

[kghost]

Tim....hows the project going?

[Tim in Ohio]

Tim thanks for checking on me.  As of today, the machine shop has had my top end for three weeks.  I called on Monday and he said he would get to it in a couple days.  I gues on Monday I will give him a call and if he hasn't started, I'll drive down and pick it up.

Kind of disappointing.  As for the carb work...  I have been spending the last week doing quite a bit of job interviewing, so it has been waiting for me.  Tomorrow is carb rebuild day.  I have my kits and I have the time.

I'm ready to get the darn bike running again.

Also, I bought somne engine degreaser and engine paint.  Any advice on that process before I start?  Is it idiot proof?  Since I don't plan on splitting the cases and opening up the bottom end, it may be a little bit of a careful process so I don't mess up any internals on the bottom end?

[Spikeybike]

use engine primer , i skipped that step and really regret it.  once the bike is all together fixing chips in the paint on the motor is not fun,

[Tim in Ohio]

Hello all,

I have been without power for a week!  Just got restored today.  First time I know of that we had Hurricane fallout in Ohio.  I spoke with the Engine shop guy yesterday.  He is going to hone the cylinders, do a valve job and install new rings.  Oh yeah, he is also going to put a helicoil in where I messed up that spark plug hole.  He SAYS that I will have it in two weeks.  We will see.  I am looking forward to getting it back and putting it back in the bike.  Spikey, thanks for the tip on engine primer, I wouldn't have thought of it.
I hope that the stuff I'm getting done will restore the performance.  We will see.  Now that I have power again I will get to work on those carbs so they will be ready when my engine work is done.

[RM81]

sorry to hear about the power.  Mine flickered a little bit south of Columbus, but it never went out.  One of my bikes did get blown over though and my utility trailer slid about three feet sideways.  Can't wait to see some pics of the engine after paint.  Good luck.

[Tim in Ohio]

Been seeing some things on the web about air cooled bikes overheating due to engine painting.  Speak up experts.  What do I need to know?  The guy at the machine shop did say that he will be dipping the engine in carb cleaner to remove the carbon, but that it will remove the paint too.  So no matter what, I will need to apply some kind of paint when I get it back from him.

[scunny]

I've painted the motor on a few of my bikes and never had a heating problem. some bikes come painted from the factory.
+1 on the primer, you just need to flash on that coat

[Tim in Ohio]

Heads up everybody.
I got my engine back from the machine shop today! After a valve job, cylinders honed, new rings, and some nice cleanup work.  I need for all of my mentors to tune back in.
I intend to finish up the carb cleaning and reassemble the engine by end of day Saturday.  I am going to need some hand holding, so if you guys can try to check in and get me thru any jams I would appreciate it.  I am really looking forward to wrapping this thread up with a successful build.  It has sucked to have a one month break in the middle, but never-the-less.  The show must go on.  I want to be riding this baby on Sunday.   

[martino1972]

when ever you got a question fire away on this forum,everybody gets an email when a reply has been made,so then any of us can jump in and hold your hand....

first tip,when reinstalling the pistons in the cylinders,make sure the ring gaps are 120 degrees away from each other..!!!!!

[MCRider]

Been seeing some things on the web about air cooled bikes overheating due to engine painting.  Speak up experts.  What do I need to know?  The guy at the machine shop did say that he will be dipping the engine in carb cleaner to remove the carbon, but that it will remove the paint too.  So no matter what, I will need to apply some kind of paint when I get it back from him.

Personally ...I say paint on engines is not a problem. First many come painted from the factory. In fact, the "plain color" is silver paint after all. Powder coaters coat thousands of daily riders every year. On and On. Not a problem.

[kghost]

I may be the only one on this forum with the following: Bare engine cases, Powdercoated Engine cases, and Painted engine cases.

I prefer the painted and probably would never powdercoat another set.

[Hush]

Is it Sunday yet?

[blueks]

I may be the only one on this forum with the following: Bare engine cases, Powdercoated Engine cases, and Painted engine cases.

I prefer the painted and probably would never powdercoat another set.

please enlighten us as to why the preference over the others. Thank you
--Pam

[loonymoon]

Wow, just seen this thread, nice one, and great info. Makes me want to get the engine out of my 350 but beleive me I'm more of a moron than you. I'm too scared and as there's no reason to anyway, it's staying put (for another 35 years probably!!). I'll keep checking in though as this is valuable info!

[kghost]

Powdercoat seems to make it run hotter.

The powdercoat is also a PIA to do properly and very time consuming.
Its also very easy to chip it when putting the engine back together and pulling covers onb and off.

Paint is easier to do, costs less, and is easier to touch up. It also more closely matches the original finish.

Unpainted corrodes and is tough to keep looking good.

[TwoTired]

The original paint on the engine is a very thin coat.  And, for good reason.

Different materials have a different thermal conductivity properties.  The aluminum fins are pretty good at conducting heat to where it can make the leap into the air flowing over the fins.  Heat not transfered builds to a higher level at the source.  Many paints are actually insulative (low heat transfer properties), and the more thickness you have, the less the heat flows to the passing air.

Powder coats I've seen are fairly thick, particularly when compared to the stock coating.  I wouldn't expect this a good choice for a component whose purpose is to transfer heat.
Like many engineering choices, it's a trade off.  Thicker paints do better at protecting the base metal from corrosive effects.  However, hotter engines curtail the engines useful life.

Aluminized paint (paint with tiny aluminum bits in it),would seem to be the best choice for engine cooling fins, which is what I though Honda used for their "silver" engines.

Black is best for heat transfer usually.  However, it is indiscriminant in its direction of flow.  Sunlight will actually add heat to the engine for example, as black is an absorber of light and IR spectrum energy.

Cheers,

[Tim in Ohio]

Hi all,
I finally have some new pics to share.
Valve job done:


Cylinders Honed:


Pistons cleaned up, and new rings installed:


Remember that spark plug thread I mangled?  Fixed now with a helicoil insert and looking good!:

[Spikeybike]

allright thats sweet,i was just wondering if there were any updates

 how much did that run ya,

[kghost]

Looking good Tim.