Topic: Another ticking top end thread.. UPDATE (I Guess there is orifice's blocked)

[JAG]

Well like the subject states, I have some ticking coming from my top end.

I have 300 miles on a fresh top end rebuild, and now I'm starting to get some ticking going on. I ran a search and found that it could be my exhaust flanges being loose. Went and checked it and all four were definitely loose. Torqued them all down and I still have some ticking.

Adjusted the cam chain using the 15 degrees of top dead center... Tried it again. Still ticking.

Checked the oil flow with a tappet cover off, blipped the throttle, and got oil everywhere. So I'm getting plenty of lube to the top end.

As the ride goes, I don't hear it from a cold start, only when the engine starts warming up. The ticking also increases in repetition as I increase in rpms. The ticking almost completely stops when the clutch is engaged (pulled in to switch gears). But there is always a ticking noise whether or not the rpms are increased only has to do with how loud or how more repeatious it gets..

I adjusted the tappets twice after the rebuild to make sure that they are within factory spec. But now that I have a few miles on her, does this mean that they'll have to be adjusted again?

Thanks for tuning in

[eurban]

Could very well be the tappets.  Maybe one of the screws / nuts came loose or perhaps things are just settling in.  I would check it out before you run the engine any more.

[JAG]

That's what I figured.. Just wanted to make sure..

Waiting for the engine to cool right now, and I'll have a go at 'er.

[greenjeans]

If you had the pipes off, I'd definitely check the connection there.  Hopefully, you used new exhaust gaskets ?
When I had mine off, it took 2 tries on 1 of the pipes before it sealed correctly.  Really sounds like noisy tappets
Exhaust gaskets are cheap and your dealer will usually have them in stock....

[JAG]

yeah I got some new exhaust gaskets.. The funny thing was there is only 4 holes for which the gaskets to go into, but when I went to change the old ones out, I pulled out not 4 but 7 of them!!  There's no telling how long those have been in there..

I am just assuming some things have loosened back up since there is some miles on the fresh rebuild.

I have discovered that some of the tappets where off a bit, but the new question that has arised is, Does this mean that I need to check the timing through the points and re sync the carbs again???


That would certainly suck. If you guys think I should I'd rather do it now that I have everything off, if need be.

[eurban]

Tappet adjustment won't affect points timing but could affect carb synch.  How perfect do you want it?  You probably synched it when the adjustments were correct so perhaps it is now more in synch than it was before you corrected the clearances   Does the bike run smoothly?  It never hurts checking these things but I wouldn't think that it is mandatory. . . .Probably best to put it back together, take it for a test drive to see if the ticking is gone.  If not then look to your exhaust connections as a leak there also fits the description of your problem.  Hopefully it will be one or the other as other potential causes will be much less fun to deal with!   

[Sporkfly]

Well, he beat me to it... Adjusting the tappets won't affect points timing. Carbs, maybe, but unless they were really tight - probably not.

[eldar]

How loud is this tick? I mean is it loud like it would echo in your garage or is just a light tick?

[bradweingartner]

Either buy or make a mechanics stethescope. Might help you pin-point where the noise is coming from.

If it goes away with the clutch though I'd shy away from top-end personally.

[JAG]

I have a home made stethescope, and the majority of the sound was coming from the top right.

The ticking is very dull and seems to increase with rpm., and all but vanishing back to that dull ticking when clutch is engaged or when back in idle/neutral.

If one would shy away from the top-end, where would you go from there?

I pulled some wiring that has been bugging me. The left switches wires are a foot too long since going from long/higher handle bars down to the clubmans. I'm going to do some tucking and concealing, link everything back up and then take it around the block a few times.

The tappets were off quite a bit, all but one of them, so I'm assuming/hoping that they were the cause of this dilemma.

[Steelo]

I've had that dreaded ticking from the right! Ended up camshaft sheared due to blocked oil feed orifice to the cam towers!
Let's hope thats not your problem!

I wish Terry would report on the oil feed system he has on the go sometime soon!

[eurban]

You would know for sure if the camshaft had sheared!  He has oil at all of the tappet covers, and found that some of the tappets were a good bit off.  Now that the tappet adjustments are made, test ride her so you can relax!

[chrismo]

I had a ticking on my first bike - a CJ360, it sounded like my valves were loose, but ended up being that the Camchain tensioner wasnt in properly, and the chain was flapping against the tensioner a bit, then wore thru the tensioner and went through the case. It took a year. Finally knowing what caused that mystery ticking, dulled some of the loss of losing the bike.

Cant tell you how many times I or my mechanic re-adjusted things trying to fix it.

Chris

[JAG]

Sorry for the late post guys..

It ended up being the loose valves..

I suppose engines, during their break in period, do tend to adjust a bit.

Thanks for all the help!!

[JAG]

okay..

Well I guess I lied.. Took it around this afternoon. And it's still ticking from the right side.

Took the valve tappet cover off the left side, oil spewing out everywhere, looks good..

Took off the right side, saw nothing but smoke. Revved it a bit, and saw no oil like I did from the left side.

No I suppose there are some orifices closed up.

If anyone remembers my last posts I got the engine after it has been sitting outside uncovered. I changed the oil after about 50 miles and had all kinds of crud and bugs that was in the oil pan and screen. So, I'm sure the it's blocked up somewhere..

How the heck to I clear it out, aside from ripping the engine all apart again?

[hymodyne]

a closed orifice just cost me a re-hone and another tear down. The machinist saved the head, but I have to get another camshaft and two sets of rockers.

hym

[JAG]

a closed orifice just cost me a re-hone and another tear down. The machinist saved the head, but I have to get another camshaft and two sets of rockers.

hym

I'm sorry to hear that hym, that really sucks!

I was thinking if I used some mystery oil, or some sort of penetrating oil, to get through the tiny holes if it would help? Ya know run it through a bit while idling, drain the oil immediately and see if it clears it out..?

Any thoughts, or suggestions? Could that even work? What would I use?

[bryanj]

If you got smoke its already siezing and the followers will be badly worn, probably with the cam and tower as well. Usual cause:------ bits of gasket crap getting into oilways

[mystic_1]

I'd say pull the engine and pop the cam cover, if it's the oil control orifices (likely as they are the narrowest point in the oil path) then you won't need to unbolt the head.

This would also give you a chance to see if any cam damage has occurred.


mystic_1

[pampadori]

another item that can cause ticking is the points cam.  if it isn't lubed it can cause a noise much like a valve tap or a timing chain noise.  remove two screws and lube, couldn't hurt.  But it wouldn't sound like top of engine. 
you never answered how loud it was.  do you have a performance cam? forged pistons?
both of those make for a noisey engine.

[JAG]

another item that can cause ticking is the points cam.  if it isn't lubed it can cause a noise much like a valve tap or a timing chain noise.  remove two screws and lube, couldn't hurt.  But it wouldn't sound like top of engine. 
you never answered how loud it was.  do you have a performance cam? forged pistons?
both of those make for a noisey engine.

It was loud before I adjusted the tappets, now it's just a very low audible hum. Nothing performance, everything is stock..

It's only coming from the right side/top of engine.

I'd say pull the engine and pop the cam cover, if it's the oil control orifices (likely as they are the narrowest point in the oil path) then you won't need to unbolt the head.

This would also give you a chance to see if any cam damage has occurred.


mystic_1

If you got smoke its already siezing and the followers will be badly worn, probably with the cam and tower as well. Usual cause:------ bits of gasket crap getting into oilways

How would I go about cleaning out the orifices?? Could I try some solvent/lubricant to see if it would break it lose and unclog, or is this definitely a manual job/by hand? The orifices are directly under the cam shaft/rocker arm holder correct? How many of them are there?

What kind of damage will I see with the cam?

[bunghole]

JAG,

Sorry to hear you're having these problems.  I just found this thread.  Wish I had some advice, but the others seem to have you covered.  Looks like an engine pull is in your future.

Good Luck!

[bunghole]

Any suggestions by anyone on preventing something like this before closing the engine up?

[martino1972]

i'm afraid you will have to at least take the valve cover off and expose the camshaft to see if it damaged the cam lobes and rockers..
on how to unplug that orfice,i don.t have a clue....oil pan off,blow out from the top down with compressed air??? but again,i'm not sure how these oil channels run from top to bottom....

[bunghole]

Not sure if this will help at all:

Direct link:  might be better quality http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk270/parks_072/77%20CB750K/2008_08_20_15_35_53.jpg