Topic: voltage regulator warming up

[paulages]

i wired up a 500/4 harness on the 718 bike, after stripping the harness, cleaning it up, and removing some wires and relocating some others. taped it back up and got all the systems working.

my question: should the winding on the outside of the regulator be heating up like it is? not too hot to touch, but definitely hot. the alternator is not plugged in yet, nor is the rectifier (and this is all without the engine running anyway).

i have it wired like this: battery--> red wire connected to positive splitting to main fuse and (EDIT)rectifier (as per diagram). red fused wire---> main switch, which then powers the black wires in the harness. in other words, the red wire to the rectifier is going straight to the battery, the green is of course grounded, and the black wire is switched and fused through the 15A main. i tried a 5A fuse in the main, just in case i was having too small a ground to pop the 15A main. the cases i've seen of regulator or rectifier heating or burning associated wires always involved a short circuit between them the alternator.

should i worry about the heating or is this normal? couldn't find it happening on other bikes in the shop.

[Sporkfly]

Sounds like you have it wired wrong to me... Where's your field coil in all of this? I know you said it isn't wired up yet but you should have wires from the voltage regulator to the field coil. This is on a 500? So anyway if it's a stock regulator on a 500 there should be a black wire, a green wire and a white wire. Check the wiring diagram on the main page, it's in color and makes it easy as pie.

[TomC]

Hi Paul
     If you are running a 500/550 set up there are no red wires to the Voltage regulator. Just black, white, & green. With the voltage from a battery the voltage regulator should draw about a third of an amp or 4 watts. I would think that the 650 would be about the same but I have not played with them.
          TomC in Ohio

[paulages]

Sounds like you have it wired wrong to me... Where's your field coil in all of this? I know you said it isn't wired up yet but you should have wires from the voltage regulator to the field coil. This is on a 500? So anyway if it's a stock regulator on a 500 there should be a black wire, a green wire and a white wire. Check the wiring diagram on the main page, it's in color and makes it easy as pie.

sorrry, i misspoke. the red wire from the battery is going to the rectifier connection, but is not connected to anything right now. it's pretty hard to wire the regulator wrong...the coding is marked on a sticker next to the connectors and the three wires that go to it are located together.

anyway, the field coil is not hooked up at all right now. in other words, the regulator is hooked into the black wire (switched hot) circuit in the harness, but this circuit is not currently connected to any other part of the charging system. the field coil is not installed at all, due to rotor fitment issue which i haven't gotten to yet.

noone has answered whether the winding on the regulator should be getting warm though... i don't even know if i have problem.

[Hush]

Its very hard to tell if you have a problem, how long do you have it hooked up like this?
Is the key on?
Is the key off and still it heats up?
Have you connected all the loose wires to where they should go?
Wiring within the harness should not its self heat up at all but if say the regulator is hooked up and not the rectifier and the key is left on then maybe voltage is being surpressed within the harness where as if all the areas the wires run to were attached this might not happen.
Also if you taped the coil wires back, are they touching the frame?
Many things to consider and if I wasn't a few thousand k's away I would love to help you sort it out.
I'd recheck all connections, attach all wires that should be attached to things (coil/reg/lights/mag) and see if your problems cures it self, worst case scenario is you have botched your rewire job and some power wire is grounded.....good luck.

[paulages]

sorry- sometimes i erroneously assume that everyone's going to know what i'm dealing with here, because i mostly post about my cb550F with the 718cc engine i've built for it. the switches are from different year cb550s, and the alternator portion will be from a '76 cb550F. i chose the 500 harness, because i had one, and i really just wanted the proper colored wires to work with. i just wired everything up, and taped and connected everything well, but the harness is essentially like this:

battery + --->split to rectifier and main fuse.

battery - --->connected to frame, green wire circuit, and black sire from the dyna 2000.

main fuse---> to switch (toggle), which powers the black wires.

black (switched) wire powers ignition circuit directly (fused at 15A)

5A fuse between black wire junction and brown/red, which powers the headlight

5A fuse between black wire junction and brown and green/y, which powers the taillight and brake switches.

5A fuse between the black wire junction and the grey wire, which powers the turn signals.

the entire alternator circuit will be connected as per stock diagram, but is currently not in the picture at all, except for the regulator which is connected to the black circuit, green circuit, and the white wire which is going nowhere for now.

everything has a clear return path to the battery through the green wires, as well as being grounded through the frame. the engine is grounded to the frame, at the same point as the rest of the green wires to guarantee a good ground for the spark plugs.

my harness has one fuse more than the 550, and three more than the 500- all blade fuses. nothing is blowing, nor are any wires heating up. it's the (green wrapped) winding on the outside of the regulator that is heating up. the thing is, in the stock location i don't think i ever really touched it, but i moved all my electrical under the seat and now i did. too bad TT is boycotting my threads... i bet he'd have some good advice. 

by the way, this link did wonders for my understanding of wiring (and a physics tutorial on electricity i read recently about tube amp repair):
http://www.gabma.us/elec/proper_grounding.pdf

[paulages]

just returning this to the top...

[scunny]

is this a mechanical or solid state regulator. just thinking here
the regulator switches output from the alternator much like a switch, so............confused thinking here
the winding is connected to the battery, so will be draining the battery, so some of this will dissapate as heat. maybe when it's switching it runs at a cooler state or.......always is warm and you just noticed it(I'm no TT)

[cadaver]

im having the same problem at the moment myself ..so if i can find out how to fix it or you find a way would you please let me know .  yesterday when i took off the green wire by the coils the regulator stoped heating up ..im going to try and take a crack at it today ...this time with a little less beer 

[TomC]

Hi Paul
     Go to page 93 of the Honda 500/550 Shop Manual. Look at Fig. 282. If the black wire with battery voltage is connect at "IG" and the green ground wire is connected at "E" then the resistance of the Voltage Regulator is 25ohms + 11ohms = 36ohms. That is a current draw of 0.35555 amps or 4.55 watts. How hot will 4.55 watts get a Voltage regulator? As nothing is connected to the "F" there is no current there.
          TomC in Ohio

[paulages]

is this a mechanical or solid state regulator. just thinking here
the regulator switches output from the alternator much like a switch, so............confused thinking here
the winding is connected to the battery, so will be draining the battery, so some of this will dissapate as heat. maybe when it's switching it runs at a cooler state or.......always is warm and you just noticed it(I'm no TT)

it is a mechanical regulator. you might be right that it is simply dissipating heat being drawn from battery. doesn't this winding usually serve the reverse function, dissipating excess energy from the alternator as heat?

[scunny]

anything drawing current will give off heat, a winding is just that " coils of copper wire"
some things such as a light filament give off light but also give off heat, a heater element the reverse, the wire dissapates energy as heat but also gives out some light depends on the composition of the conductor.
as a side note, I remember being told when I got my first car not to leave the ignition on because it will damage the regulator.
food for thought, maybe they do get hot when "not being used"

[cadaver]

yeah ...but should it get so hot that it would burn your fingers like mine is doing at the moment ?

[TomC]

Hi Paul & Scunny
     The stock Honda Voltage regulator controls the output of the Alternator by controlling the current in the field coil of the alternator. Check the figure 282 of the 500-550 Shop Manual. The solid state voltage regulator from some AMC product that I am using and the Ford voltage regulator that Pinhead likes do the same thing. So only what current in needed to measure the voltage is used in the Voltage Regulator at battery voltage. The Honda voltage regulator reduces the current to the field coil by adding resistance to the circuit. So if you are using over about 14.5 volts or the point is stuck there would be more current used in the voltage regulator.
          TomC in Ohio

is this a mechanical or solid state regulator. just thinking here
the regulator switches output from the alternator much like a switch, so............confused thinking here
the winding is connected to the battery, so will be draining the battery, so some of this will dissapate as heat. maybe when it's switching it runs at a cooler state or.......always is warm and you just noticed it(I'm no TT)

it is a mechanical regulator. you might be right that it is simply dissipating heat being drawn from battery. doesn't this winding usually serve the reverse function, dissipating excess energy from the alternator as heat?

[scunny]

can't you cook eggs on it ?
sorry, I'm no expert but I wouldn't think your regulator would or should get that hot.
check Toms post, that could be your problem

[TomC]

Hi Cadaver
     I am not sure what is going on with your regulator. As far as I can see if the regulator is OK and the voltage between the black wire and the green wire is less than about 14.5 volts 4.55 watts should be about what is heating up the voltage regulator. If the the moving contact is not contacting either the upper or lower contact about 12 watts should be heating up the voltage regulator. If the moving contact is stuck on the lower contact about 20 watts should be heating up the voltage regulator. The resistor in the voltage regulator was on the bottom of the last Honda voltage regulator. It is what is going to get hot.
     Does your voltage regulator heat up if the field coil is disconnected? The same as when connected? I am assuming that there is not much resistance at the contacts in the voltage regulator and your field coil is not shorted to ground. Remove the green and white wires from the voltage regulator and check the resistance between them. Should be 4.9 ohms +- 10%
          TomC in Ohio

[paulages]

i'll recheck ohmage between my connections tomorrow, but i have to wonder if it's simply a matter of the regulator getting power, being grounded, but doing no work with the electricity provided (as the white wire that powers the field coil is not connected to anything), and is dissipating the energy as heat.

my rotor situation is getting addressed here in the next couple days, so i'll be able to have the whole charging system intact.

[scunny]

  that's my guess

[bistromath]

i wish i'd seen this before! it's normal. i figure about 5W on that resistor winding would raise the temp about 80 degrees or so, which corresponds to being hot to the touch but not too hot to touch. that's how it's supposed to go. measure the charging system to make sure it's cutting off at the right voltage and move on with your life  

[paulages]

i wish i'd seen this before! it's normal. i figure about 5W on that resistor winding would raise the temp about 80 degrees or so, which corresponds to being hot to the touch but not too hot to touch. that's how it's supposed to go. measure the charging system to make sure it's cutting off at the right voltage and move on with your life 

great, thanks! i'll do all the proper measurements once the charging system is intact.