Topic: cb550 Clutch Adjustment Making Me Crazy

[Popwood]

I've plowed through the FAQs and was armed with print-outs of what I thought would do the trick, but my attempts aren't making any progress.

One thing I don't understand is the adjustment screw in the side case. I get that the marks at the clutch lever should align, but should they align with the clutch cable totally slack, or when you "think" you have the cable adjusted with the right amount of play at the grip lever? Or something else?

I've adjusted the cable to get the recommended play at the grip lever and tension at the lower lever to just where the lever will start to lift. Regardless of these adjustments, the gear shift from 1st to neutral when engine is mostly cold is not so bad, but just about impossible after the bike has warmed up.

I've run the side case adjusting screw in and out to where it will go no more. I've turned it and saw it move the lever up or down slightly when there's a bit of tension, but I can't get this and the cable adjustment to make that good transition to neutral when the engine is warmed up. I'm rather new to this, and I think I've made matters worse.

Any advice welcome. And thanks!!

Update: 8/29/08  The problem is solved and I want to share what I learned for those, like me, who are at the novice stage of bike mechanics. You experienced folks will think, "well, of course." Here's the deal. It was all about the engine oil. I'd had the bike little more than a month (and it was my first bike in 30 years) so did a simple oil and filter change since the old oil looked way past due. Manual called for 10W 40 or 20W 50. So that's what I used-- but it was 10w 40 automotive oil. After a lot of reading and searching the FAQs I began to suspect the oil would be the culprit since, I learned, auto oil has lots of additives that can adversely affect wet clutches like our bikes have that share engine oil along with the transmission. I changed the oil to 20w 50 oil formulated for motorcycles and problem resolved on the very next ride. Done. Live and learn.

[martino1972]

so,what you mean is that when the bike is running and in 1th gear,it kinda draggs with the clutch pulled in..??

[bryanj]

Marks line up with the cable disconnected

[Popwood]

I don't notice the clutch dragging so much while riding, but after warmed up and stopped with engine running it's difficult if not impossible to shift into neutral, very hard to get it out of 1st without a real effort, and if it does release it goes right past neutral to second. But while riding, even when warmed up, shifting not a problem.

So I was thinking about this some more, and I adjusted again this morning before my ride to work. I took all the tension off the cable. The I adjusted the clutch screw on the side cover (screwing it in) until the the free play in the clutch lifter lever was gone and it moved the marks into alignment. I then adjusted the screw just a little bit more raising the lifter lever a tad higher.

With the slack out f the cable, I backed the cable adjuster at the grip out two turns. Then I adjusted the cable end at the lever lifter until the slack was all gone and it just started moving the lifter up. I locked down the cable adjuster net. Made sure the clutch adjuster nut was locked down.

When I started her up shifting into neutral was a breeze. The clutch engagement point on the clutch lever at the grip had moved away from the grip and much closer to full release. But after my six mile drive to work, same problem with getting into neutral with engine running. Damn!

So, since I've never over adjusted to the point where the clutch slips, I'm thinking I need to continue adjusting to get more disengagement. Am I on the right track here? Should I start with the clutch adjusting screw on the side cover and raise the lifting lever a bit more, then raise a bit more again with cable adjustment? I'm working on the theory that I'm simply not moving the clutch lifting lever enough with the engine warm to fully disengage the clutch.

I should add the bike is a '75 with just 6,800 miles, but from what I know of the PO, those were all "in town" miles and no highway miles.

Appreciate your help.

[martino1972]

I don't notice the clutch dragging so much while riding, but after warmed up and stopped with engine running it's difficult if not impossible to shift into neutral, very hard to get it out of 1st without a real effort, and if it does release it goes right past neutral to second. But while riding, even when warmed up, shifting not a problem.

So I was thinking about this some more, and I adjusted again this morning before my ride to work. I took all the tension off the cable. The I adjusted the clutch screw on the side cover (screwing it in) until the the free play in the clutch lifter lever was gone and it moved the marks into alignment. I then adjusted the screw just a little bit more raising the lifter lever a tad higher.

With the slack out f the cable, I backed the cable adjuster at the grip out two turns. Then I adjusted the cable end at the lever lifter until the slack was all gone and it just started moving the lifter up. I locked down the cable adjuster net. Made sure the clutch adjuster nut was locked down.

When I started her up shifting into neutral was a breeze. The clutch engagement point on the clutch lever at the grip had moved away from the grip and much closer to full release. But after my six mile drive to work, same problem with getting into neutral with engine running. Damn!

So, since I've never over adjusted to the point where the clutch slips, I'm thinking I need to continue adjusting to get more disengagement. Am I on the right track here? Should I start with the clutch adjusting screw on the side cover and raise the lifting lever a bit more, then raise a bit more again with cable adjustment? I'm working on the theory that I'm simply not moving the clutch lifting lever enough with the engine warm to fully disengage the clutch.

I should add the bike is a '75 with just 6,800 miles, but from what I know of the PO, those were all "in town" miles and no highway miles.

Appreciate your help.

did you try and leave it in 1th,while standing still ofcource,shut off the engine,then try to hit neutral...if its easy to do then,then theres something wrong inside your clutch...
maybe oil get's trapped in the basket(seen it happen on older tractors for the pto clutch,remedy was to drill some oil drain holes bigger in the clutch basket)the farmers where complaining that while the tractor was running,with the pto disengaged,it would still put a little tension on the pto shaft,making it imposible to remove the pto shaft.....
i think it's time to do a internal inspection of your clutch system.....

[Popwood]

Yes, it slips easily into neutral from 1st with the engine off.

But going inside to check clutch? This wasn't a problem at all until I started tinkering with the adjustment screw and cable tension. It all started when I was trying to put the recommended free play into the grip lever. Is it possible I did something to screw up the clutch just from this?

And would it be a bad thing to use the clutch adjusting screw to raise the lift lever some more. I think I've read that this may cause undue wear on the lift lever bearing?

[martino1972]

then i don't know...

[vames]

I have this same problem with a 350 twin and a 550 that I used to have -- I guess it happens to a lot of older Hondas of all stripes -- you can't shift into neutral while stopped with the the engine running. In both cases, the clutch was perfectly adjusted and there wasn't any "creep" with the clutch pulled in.

Since my 400f always smoothly goes into neutral, I can't just assume this is a quirk of old hondas. Certainly the problem can be fixed. Anybody know how? 

[Marco550K]

I have the same problem with my '77 550k. Neutral shiftability is easy when cold and very tricky when the bike is warm and stopped. My clutch is adjusted pretty well, but the basket marks and arm marks never lined up. However, I found that either giving a blip of the throttle (around 5k rpm) or rolling the bike a half revolution backwards or forwards does the trick every time. I also have learned to try to find N before coming to a light. Quite certain clutch is not dragging.

Just my .02.

m

[Popwood]

I have the same problem with my '77 550k. Neutral shiftability is easy when cold and very tricky when the bike is warm and stopped. My clutch is adjusted pretty well, but the basket marks and arm marks never lined up. However, I found that either giving a blip of the throttle (around 5k rpm) or rolling the bike a half revolution backwards or forwards does the trick every time. I also have learned to try to find N before coming to a light. Quite certain clutch is not dragging.

Just my .02.

m

Well, then, it may not be my ability to follow directions and make the adjustment. I'll try your tricks as the work-around for awhile. I'm beginning to wonder if the clutch plates are just too worn or are warped which could show up more when warm? Thoughts on this anyone? I'm taking the bike in to a shop for a tire replacement soon and might ask them to give a shot at adjustment. But they will probably just want to sell me a clutch job.

I've been studying the clutch diagrams trying solve this mystery. I may give it another adjustment try. I'm wondering if some of this is counter-intuitive. For example, I've been thinking the adjustment of the lift lever upward will help disengagement. But maybe this only shortens the lever travel. I'm thinking that by adjusting it downward slightly, the travel may increase and the position of the clutch cam will change sightly to improve disengagement.

[Kurosh215]

I've been having the same problem with my 77 550k. Finally picked up the right oil for it today. Did your neutral light shut off if you let it get hot enough idling?

[BomberMann650]

So the 550’s clutch actuator is a cam and lever press design.  Which makes the adjustment process somewhat confusing for the first timer.
The arm outside the clutch cover is the cam.  And it’s spring loaded.  Unfortunately, the lever and adjustment is not.  So what happens is folks start turning the adjuster, but the movement is not reflected in the actuator arm.  Then people try bringing the cable up to tension and find out the clutch doesn’t feel good.  Or work right, maybe both.

The trick I’ve found.  FIRST!  physically hold the actuator arm Up while turning the adjuster screw.  You’ll be able to see/feel the movement.  When the two dots line up.  Move onto getting the cable sorted.  I like to set the handlebar adjuster close to the perch.  Save a couple threads if you want.  The cable adjuster down by the engine is very useful.  Use this for getting the cable slack taken up.  By now the clutch action should be feeling pretty solid.  Finally, use the handlebar adjuster is for fine tuning. 

Make sense?

[Bodi]

The engine adjustment for the clutch cam sets the throwout bearing clearance with clutch fully engaged. With no clearance the clutch might work fine but the bearing is going to wear out a lot sooner. Too much clearance and the clutch can't fully disengage regardless of cable adjustments, and it drags. The cam translates engine lever rotation into axial movement of the pushrod, and that pushes on the throwout bearing. Total movement of the pushrod with the lever moved end-to-end is about 1/8" so there isn't a lot of excess travel available, the adjustment is very important.