Topic: What is there to know about the CB450 Twin?

[DarkRider]

I keep seeing the occasional CB450 Twin for sale on the local classifieds and i have been debating picking one up sometime to mess around with. So far the ones i have seen have been runners or require lil work to get them running which is just fine by me. Any input given will be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

Chris

[RRRToolSolutions]

I will tell you that the engine is as different from other Honda or Yamaha twins as a 2 stroke is to 4 stroke. My restoration of a Bomber last year came about just because of those differences. I was bored with Kawasaki triples and the CB750 build was easy enough. The cylinder head alone has more parts than an entire H2 750 Kawasaki engine. It's amazing how much engineering went into that design. I've worked on a lot of neat stuff, but I enjoyed the Honda CB450 engine the most. Equally impressive is the way the crankshaft and it's entire bearing assembly simply "bolt-in" - making case halves completely interchangable - no line-bored bearing surfaces to worry about. You'll also be impressed with the steel combustion chambers cast-in the aluminum heads - hardened valve seats - long before any thoughts of leaded fuel going away. The torsion bar valve closures allow for some incredible valve angles and the intake tract is super short and straight - great for power - just what they were going for with this design. They were dropped and not expanded upon because of the expense of the design - not due to failure of the design or componebts. It simply cost twice what the convention designs did. You'll enjoy it if you're a tech-head.

Don't let these differences turn you off - it will be a rewarding challenge, one well worth every minute of study in that factory manual.

My 02 - Gordon

[DarkRider]

Thanks for the great info man! Now it has me wanting one even more.

[tbpmusic]

Bombers (K0) have a bit of collectibility, so will cost more to buy and restore.



Of all 450's, the Police and "D" variant are the rarest and are collectible.




A black K1 is (my opinion) the most handsome bike I ever laid eyes on. Very little collectibility - maybe in a few years. The first of the 5-speeds.



K2's are also nice looking.



The disk brake models (K3 and up) are plentiful, and have no real collector's value.



There was also a CL variant, for a number of years.  I think all were 5-speeds.




The attraction is primarily the engine, which is pretty cool.



There are variations encountered with non-US models.


A good, tractible street bike, one of the best of its time.

bill2

[rbmgf7]

there's a guy down the road that has one for sale. want's $500 but there's no title. can't tell if it has the drum or disc in the front. he's been trying to sell it for the past year.

[RRRToolSolutions]

Bill2 - great presentation of the CB450's history and facts. I will also agree with the K1 being the best looking of all 450's - but when deciding to do one, I chose the one that I thought would carry the most value when completed. I chose the Bomber.

Regards,
Gordon

[DarkRider]

Thank you for all the great info Gordon and Bill2. Given what i would be using the bike for the best version for me would be a K3 and later bike due to the fact it would be seeing daily riding duties like my VF. All the bikes in my sig except for the VF are projects in different stages of completion. With the VF parts are harder to find for it then the CBs due to a lot of them being ran into the ground. Thus why the search for a CB that requires little to get it up on the road and running. Plan is this...Get a CB450 T or a simular bike for daily riding and leave the VF for cruise nights and the other bikes to be completed as time allows and my mechanical skill progresses. Basicly taking my time and building them right the first time and not rushing it especially in the case of my S2. In all reality the S2 doesnt require much more to finish it so it should be on the road soon as well.

[bill440cars]

       Boy, I can tell that I've been away from here and especially this forum. Like Gordon and Bill2, I would heavily endorse the 450. Now, I don't have any of the more collectible models of the 450 though. Most of the "Project" 450s I have, are the 74' models (1 CLK6 and 2 CBK7s, with the 69' & 70' represented barely) 1st 450 I road was a brand new 68' a buddy had bought and that sucker was mighty impressive to me. All kinds of power and torque. Besides the SOHC4s, I've always had a soft spot for the CB/CL450DOHC and the CB/CL 250/305 Hawk/Super Hawk & Scramblers. Like Gordon and Bill2, I also like the design of the 450 engine (with the DOHCs and the Torsionbars for valve springs and such) After all, the 450 was the BIG Honda for a little while!

[AK Cafe]

I know that parts are getting harder to come by. I have a CB500T that the timing chain idler gear bracket failed on, and I have been looking for months and can't find a part for it anywhere. I am at the point of looking for a good motor for a replacement just to get it back up and running. Anyone know of a good motor out there?
AK Cafe

[tbpmusic]

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Didn't actually say I heavily endorse them, though I do love them.
Just giving him some info that he asked for.

It's not the right bike for everyone - like the PO of my K4 project. He thought he wanted a retro machine, what he really wanted was to do 1/4 mile long wheelies and go 159 mph.
A 450 won't do any of that stuff. Don't think I've ever seen a 450 wheelie.
And, it is not a bike that tolerates any half-baked repairs or mods.

Though they are very cool.

And for AK, your 500T cam chain stuff are the same parts as a 450.
I see them on EBay all the time, sometimes as a single part, sometimes part of a head for sale.

bill2

[bill440cars]

...
..
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Didn't actually say I heavily endorse them, though I do love them.
Just giving him some info that he asked for.

It's not the right bike for everyone - like the PO of my K4 project. He thought he wanted a retro machine, what he really wanted was to do 1/4 mile long wheelies and go 159 mph.
A 450 won't do any of that stuff. Don't think I've ever seen a 450 wheelie.
And, it is not a bike that tolerates any half-baked repairs or mods.

Though they are very cool.

And for AK, your 500T cam chain stuff are the same parts as a 450.
I see them on EBay all the time, sometimes as a single part, sometimes part of a head for sale.

bill2

           Yeah, I agree with bill2 about the 450. It really isn't for just anyone. Now, while it might not be a wheelie machine, they do produce some pretty good torque and have wheeling spinning capability. I'm a 450 fanatic, if you can't tell or didn't already know it. I like the 450s for what they can do and understand their limitations.   

                        Take care, Bill

[tbpmusic]

I'm a 450 fanatic, if you can't tell or didn't already know it. I like the 450s for what they can do and understand their limitations.   

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Yeah, it's my favorite model of all time.
I love 'em, warts and all.
They're like Jack Russell Terriers - you gotta' take them for what they are, 'cause you're not gonna get Lassie........

Good to see you back and talking about other things, Bill, hope all the crap is done with.


bill2

[DarkRider]

From the info that has been given in here thus far the CB450 would be a great bike for what i require of it. If i wanted to go down the quarter mile in less then 10 Seconds i would be going for a bike like a CBR1100XX. Besides with the VF and possably a CBR of some model in the future i have my speed fix covered. But for something like going to old bike shows and commuting around the city day in day out the CB450 will be perfect for that.

[bill440cars]

I'm a 450 fanatic, if you can't tell or didn't already know it. I like the 450s for what they can do and understand their limitations.   

...
..
.

Yeah, it's my favorite model of all time.
I love 'em, warts and all.
They're like Jack Russell Terriers - you gotta' take them for what they are, 'cause you're not gonna get Lassie........

Good to see you back and talking about other things, Bill, hope all the crap is done with.


bill2

          Yeah, I'll never forget my 1st encounter with a 450 (other than a Black Bomber beating my CB72 Hawk back in the late 60's), when a buddy told me he wanted me to take his new 68' CB450 for a spin. I took off down the road, getting the feel of it and came back. He told me,"Now, I want you to get on it! So, I gave it a bit more throttle and off down the road I went. When I got back, he said, NO, I want you to Really get on it! Well, I finally got the true meaning of what he wanted me to do. So, I grabbed that throttle and gave it a good twist while popped the clutch and then the bike just sat there. I looked at him (he was grinning) and he pointed to the rear of the bike. As I looked around at the rear of the bike, I saw smoke and realized that the rear wheel    was spinning and smoking the tire. I immediately backed off and pulled the clutch in. He was grinning from ear to ear and said, "I told yu that it had some power!"  Yeah, I sure liked my 250 Hawk, but that 68' 450 would run circles around a lot of bikes back then, and felt good doing it!  

           Yeah, it feels good talking about something besides the crap my brother and his wife have been putting my Dad and me through. Still got some loose ends t tie up and then, I'll still be pretty busy trying to take care of my household along with his. At least I shouldn't be having to jump through hoops to keep things going straight. Can't help but wonder though, if Dad will have to go through a period of time not really knowing anyone and thinking that everyone is trying to put him away or plain neglecting him. Guess I'll try not to think about that and try not to stress about something that hasn't happened and might not.

[lordmoonpie]

Aww man you just got to get into these bikes - the CB450 is one of Honda's hidden gems and it is SOOO much fun tuning and playing with them. The design is superb and you can play with all sorts of mods to get what you want - and oh yes, you can make them wheelie!

I've developed mine over about 8 years now and I have to say it's been the most fun I've had with my pants on! What are you waiting for ? 

[DarkRider]

Waiting on the right one to pop up now that i have read all the posts in here lol.

[bill440cars]

Aww man you just got to get into these bikes - the CB450 is one of Honda's hidden gems and it is SOOO much fun tuning and playing with them. The design is superb and you can play with all sorts of mods to get what you want - and oh yes, you can make them wheelie!

I've developed mine over about 8 years now and I have to say it's been the most fun I've had with my pants on! What are you waiting for ? 

          Cool 450 there lordmoonpie, glad to see you pop in on this discussion.

[bill440cars]

Waiting on the right one to pop up now that i have read all the posts in here lol.

           Ya don't mind if I throw some more fuel on the fire, do ya?

[tbpmusic]

As long as I'm in the safety of 450 lovers, I'll offer this up -

I'm in the process of laboriously slicing out pages of my 450 Manual (Honda), then scanning them one at a time. I don't believe a decent PDF of the Honda 450 manual is anywhere on the web, I've looked for a couple years.
It will probably take quite a while to finish and put together as a PDF.

At any rate, right up front are a couple of KILLER graphics. We've all seen them, but here are the scans - they may look a bit "thin" on the screen, but print beautifully. The links are to hi-res jpg files. Not sure that I could post the files here, they're big.
Hopefully someone will be so grateful they'll give me a T-shirt or something (XXX-Large, please - I expand when wet).

Actually, the one named "front" should actually say "rear", I'm too lazy to go back and change it.


bill


http://home.comcast.net/~tbpmusic3/enginefront.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~tbpmusic3/engineside.jpg

Here's a small version of one -

[RRRToolSolutions]

Guys, study those drawings of the cams, the valves, and intake and exhaust ports - all very unique. Look hard because you are not going to see those anywhere else - no where!

I've just finished reading the 205 page hardback "Honda: The man and his machines by Sol Sanders earlier today. I know why I am a Honda fan - this guy had it going on. He had 1,600 people working in R&D alone. I am most impressed by the fact his R&D invented a CVCC cylinder head that met every one of California's 1975 emissions standards back in 1972 and did not require an air pump, recirculating, or catalytic converters. He called those "bandaids to the real problem - poor combustion and use of fuel already going into the engine". Honda was awarded huge engineering awards by Gerald Ford and several other countries for the incredible design. When Detroit filed complaints and asked for extentions to the EPA deadlines, Honda took two Chevy 350 cubic inch V8's and made his own Swirl Combustion Chambered heads for it and it met the standards and gained 2 mpg!  Honda's only time in college was to attend a course on metal casting. When he refused to take notes and to take graded test, he was going to be thrown out - he quickly replied - I don't want your diploma - I want to learn how to cast iron piston rings. He later perfected his rings and sold them to Toyota. Honda motorcycles were soon born.

This book is a good read if you want to understand how Japan and the US became the biggest enemies and then the largest Japanese market - all because of disciplined standards of excellence by the new manufacturing geniuses like Honda and Sony's founder. Honda was wiped out 6 or 7 times by fire, strikes, financing, and eventually US bombs destroying the entire industrial sectors. The man would not lie down and quit -

Regards,
Gordon

[DarkRider]

And because of his determination we all have bikes that are amongst the best of the best. I can def see what drives people to own bikes like the CB450. They are unique machines much like the Kawi Triples however they have features that were ahead of their time and its a real pity that honda didnt expand the use of that head on different models or at least the design of the head. Imagine how reliable and competitive the MotoGP RC212V would be with an advanced version of that head for example? Ill leave bikes like the Bombers to restorers like Gordon because he can bring them back to their original condition and make them look great. While i will take the newer ones and still be able to enjoy the model and be able to use it for day to day use while they are still under the radar of being collectors bikes.