Topic: Help! (Painting gurus, please...)

[HondaMan]

I was enjoying the laydown of a DonDirtBiker Candy Gold kit today, when, on the last clear coat, the Colorado weather did what it does so often this time of year: turned in less than 5 minutes. Technically speaking, it went from 70 degrees and sunny and still to 61 and dark and windy in about 2 minutes, then the wind died down and the the temperature stayed here. I had just laid the last (and heaviest) clear coat, which was settling nicely, and the cold air stopped the flow on the side too quickly and made the top run over and sag a bit.

 

Other than that, it was a nice paint job, my first since 1974, when I used to do Candy lacquers, about 6 or 7 every year. This catalyst (2-part and 3-part, it seems) paint is interesting stuff, works a little different, supposedly kills you in minutes flat without protective gear...

But, here's the question: how long to wait before I can sand out this sag, and what should I use? Will I have to lay another clear, or will it sand and polish out, like the lacquers of old?

 

[Jim]

how about a pic?
J

[hs2k007]

first lay a small amount of putty or bondo over the top of it, it should not stick to the clear.  start with a 600 or 1000 paper.  as you level the sag, you will see the putty disappear.  this lets you know if you have it level and stops you from hitting areas that you do not wish to polish later.  once the sag is out, use a polish with 1500 grit in it and a high speed buffer.  be careful and keep the pad level, as you can burn through the clear.  work the buffer back and forth do not hold it in one spot.  polish until there the sand marks are out.  buff the spot with a sealer wax or high quality wax.

[WFO]

Off topic but where are you in colorado?

[heffay]

i could be mistaken wfo but i believe he might even be in the same town as you... otherwise, he's down there somewhere.

[ken74-550K0]

Earlier this summer I painted my 750F the tank and side covers came out really nice, however, the clear on the tail piece ended up sagging on one side.  I used DuPont product, but the clear was similar to what you described (2 part).

The next day I contacted my paint supplier and they said I should strip the entire job and start again.  That was not the answer I wanted to hear.  I checked the DuPont web site and it said that I could sand out the sag wtih 2000 grit wet dry paper.  I actually ended up starting with 1600 grit on a rubber pad (wet) and moved up to  2000 grit.  I then used some 3M medium cut swirl mark remover and followed that up with some glazing compound.  I did all of this within 24 hours of spraying the clear.  Unless I pointed this out you would not be able to notice the sag.

The way I figured, if I messed this up I was looking at repaint anyway.

[hs2k007]

yes i forgot to add in my post, use water on the paper.  i work here (www.scomfort.com)  we paint 15-20 custom cars a day.

[masonryman]

Sand it out soon or the clear will get to hard to sand and buff out smoothly. Even if you go through the clear you may not have to add more color unless it is a metallic. The solids blend quite well but you can see the layering with metallics.

[masonryman]

yes i forgot to add in my post, use water on the paper.  i work here (www.scomfort.com)  we paint 15-20 custom cars a day.

That is some place, I work part time for my dad we do restorations and customs at the rate of maybe 5- 10 a year.

[Artfrombama]

yes i forgot to add in my post, use water on the paper.  i work here (www.scomfort.com)  we paint 15-20 custom cars a day.

Ah, you're the guys that do the vans and pickups.

[HondaMan]

Off topic but where are you in colorado?

Lakewood, Wads & Jewell area. Where are you?

[HondaMan]

first lay a small amount of putty or bondo over the top of it, it should not stick to the clear.  start with a 600 or 1000 paper.  as you level the sag, you will see the putty disappear.  this lets you know if you have it level and stops you from hitting areas that you do not wish to polish later.  once the sag is out, use a polish with 1500 grit in it and a high speed buffer.  be careful and keep the pad level, as you can burn through the clear.  work the buffer back and forth do not hold it in one spot.  polish until there the sand marks are out.  buff the spot with a sealer wax or high quality wax.

I'm afraid I'm still in manual mode, with just hand-sanding blocks and the like. This sand-to-the-Bondo method seems interesting, as I always seem to overdo the filler-primer sandoff part and end up doing it more than once.

If Bondo won't stick, maybe I can try this tomorrow. Thanks!

[HondaMan]

Sand it out soon or the clear will get to hard to sand and buff out smoothly. Even if you go through the clear you may not have to add more color unless it is a metallic. The solids blend quite well but you can see the layering with metallics.

Thanks, Stoney! 
I was thinking that if I tried to sand it too soon, like tomorrow, it would smear.

In years past, I've always frowned on clearcoats, preferring to fix up the paint and sometimes add a final trim coat before baking or sealing it. Heck, even my 29-year-old epoxy job still has the like-new finish on it, except where my leather pants' leg zipper once took a tiny chip during a dismount. I did lacquers like that, too, but used the hard-shell-and-polish approach so the gasoline wouldn't mar it.

To be exact, I think this is my first-ever clearcoat job. And, I messed it up a bit, not knowing how to feel this paint. 

[ieism]

How many coats of clearcoat are on there? I'd say if you have 3 decent layers, you should have no problem sanding it out and buffing the tank. In fact, buffing the whole tank with course and then fine compound will probably only make it look better than it does now.

I sanded and buffed an intire tank and cafeseat by hand, it took nearly a day but it looks great now.

Don't rush it and use too course wetpaper, start with 1600/2000 then go to 2500, and take your time. I used 3M Perfect-it for polishing to high gloss. Make sure you don't use the same cloth/buffer for the course and fine stuff.

good luck.

[troppo]

G`day Hondaman
The painter at work has a gizmo that looks like a small stack of poker chips called a run sander.
It has abrasive on the two flat ends, one is about 1200 grit and the other is a lot finer, rub it back to almost gone with the course side and then finish with the finer side, buff it and your done. Because of the small size and the hard flat surface the run is all that is sanded until you get to the same level of the rest of the paint, he said he`s had his for years and only used it ocaisionally but would never be without it.
I guess you could get one at any decent automotive paint supplier.

[heffay]

yes i forgot to add in my post, use water on the paper.  i work here (www.scomfort.com)  we paint 15-20 custom cars a day.

the paint jobs really do look great, but... i'd like to see more than the repetitive horizontal 2 tone and/or horizontal graphic.  every picture seemed like a refresher course on the last picture so i wouldn't forget the paint style.  i'd like to hear the customer/designer conversation that happened w/ all of those cars that prompted every one of those car/truck owners to get such similar painting styles.  although, 15-20 cars a day i can see why even the style of paint would need to be narrowed down a bit.  like i said though, paint looks nice quality and that's what really matters.

[HondaMan]

G`day Hondaman
The painter at work has a gizmo that looks like a small stack of poker chips called a run sander.
It has abrasive on the two flat ends, one is about 1200 grit and the other is a lot finer, rub it back to almost gone with the course side and then finish with the finer side, buff it and your done. Because of the small size and the hard flat surface the run is all that is sanded until you get to the same level of the rest of the paint, he said he`s had his for years and only used it ocaisionally but would never be without it.
I guess you could get one at any decent automotive paint supplier.

Wow, Troppo! I never heard of this before. I'll stop by the auto paint store near work tomorrow and ask. As many Hondaman Specials as I have lined up, I'm sure this won't be my last encounter with Colorado's weather in my patio paintbooth (which is a big cardboard box from my recently-replaced microwave oven. ). It sounds like just the ticket. I want to paint at least one of my cars, too. And, I will need a respirator when I do that, I'm sure.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

 (which is a big cardboard box from my recently-replaced microwave oven. 

       

[hs2k007]

the bondo method works, just put a small thin amount on.  the idea is the sand all that you put on off.  Yes at Southern Comfort we do vans and trucks, we are getting into cars now.  most of our painters have acheived master painter certificates through PPG.  We have 15 paint booths and 15 painters.  some have been with the company for 20-25 years

[HondaMan]

how about a pic?
J

Well, I tried, but this paint is so bright, I couldn't get the sag to appear clearly. I sanded it all with 1000 grit, got the sag(s) out: it ran the whole length of the right side! I just couldn't see that until I started working on it. Boy, when the wind drops and blows, this sheet metal sure cools off fast. 

After that, I got some rubbing compound and some polishing compound (Turtle Wax) and hand-rubbed the whole tank, as much of it has orange peel. I couldn't see that, either, until I sanded it, 'cuz this paint is SO bright (and my eyes are old...).

Finally, I polished it with my car buffer and the Polishing compound. It looks better, not quite so brassy, still has a nice shine, though.

Next comes the side covers. If they come out OK, then I'll be faced with the question: can I spray another clearcoat over the dried-and-polished one on the tank, or is this finish the one I must live with? It's nice, but the side covers will be shinier, due to the nature of this paint...

If it was lacquer, I'd know what to do. But, this is very different paint, this catalyst stuff.
 

[hs2k007]

Our paint jobs are mostly the same, because those are standard order layouts.  We change the colors of the stripes and shading.  Remember, we are a custom, manufacturing facility.  Now if you want true custom, we can do that too.  It will just cost you a little bit more.  We painted a Corvette once for a Las Vegas casino that was candy paint.  We cleared it, blocked it and clear it again.  The price was $10,000 though.  You have seen our work on other show cars, some of which vendors have in there booth at SEMA and other various car shows.  Some let us advertise, so do not.  Hope you were able to fix your tank.

[ColinMc]

Try using some real compound...3M or Farecla. Get a regular compound, and a swirl mark remover. Go to town by hand with both of those and you'll be in even better shape. I can get you part numbers if need be. Farecla is awesome awesome stuff, but expensive, 3M isn't quite as expensive and they make some good stuff. The turtle wax compounds are nothing in comparison. Then finish it off with a fresh coat of Hand Glaze and you'll be amazed. Most paint jobs I do I wet sand with a DA and interface pad with 1500 grit, then 3000 grit, then do the two compounds and it's glass smooth.

What works well for future reference is just taking a regular rectangular razor blade, putting tape around the far edges/corners so just the middle sharp part is exposed and use that to slice off thin layers of the clear coat until you get the majority of it down, then you have a lot less to sand afterwards.

You won't be dead in the morning if you don't use a respirator with urethane paints, they aren't any worse for you than the old laquers that had lead in them as well lol. Obviously I recommend using a respirator meant for paint and I do use one, but the myth about urethanes being too dangerous to use at home, and all that crap is a load of...well crap. It's all bad for you lol.

[hs2k007]

We use Presta compound which is water based.  Once you polish out the sand marks, they are gone.  Some cheaper compounds are oil based.  In turn they hide the scratches and they will return.  think of it as spreading WD40 over paint.  It looks perfect on dull paint, but once the sun bakes out the oils, the dull, scrathes are back.  3M does make some good products, but some are oil based.  I think you can find Presta on the enet.  They have some good stuff, expensive, but good.

[HondaMan]

The instructions I have say "spray the next coat within 20 minutes, depending on temperature and humidity".

If I spray another clear coat next weekend, will this botch the hand-polish job I've completed?

[hs2k007]

are you respraying the whole tank?