Topic: CL350 - Oil Seal behind points advancer.

[JeyLux]

Hello,

I've got a nifty little oil leak behind the points advance plate.   I think it's the seal.  actually it's pretty much the only thing it can be.  It's on a CL350

Anyway I found a seal (22X35X5) I think is right.   The question is, how do you change it?  I just want to be prepaired.  Is just just pull the guts out of the timing area and pull the seal out and slap the new one in? or do i need to take apart the top end to get it in?


Thanks,

Jason

[woody1981]

I had that seal replaced in my 73 CL a few months ago... I got lazy and just had the shop where I take my bike fix it. So sorry I'm not much help... but if you are leaking much... like I was... I would go ahead and replace the points afterward... the sparking, combined with the oil all over the place sure did a number on them. I had all kinds of ignition problems until they were replaced.

Good luck.

- Woody

[JeyLux]

I just replaced the points before this issue.  Hopefully it won't be a problem, as I've been keeping off the miles since i located the issue.... we'll see!

[rchrdms]

Hi,

I believe that you have to take off the side housing for the timing plate. You can do it without tearing down the top end. There is a gasket behind the housing, and an oil seal for the camshaft. I'm not sure that there is another seal there. It's been a while since I did it.

BTW Just loosen both rocker arms by cranking the engine over until both valves are closed. This eases removal of the side housing.

Let me know if this works.

Richard

[JeyLux]

i didn't have to do much.

removed timing plate, advancer and stuff.  pulled out old seal, pressed in new seal.


the good news is it was easy.

the bad news is it still leaks.  it's leaking on the ID of the seal, which leads me to believe that there's wear on the shaft, and that's why it's leaking.  Tonights plan is to put a large OD o-ring behind the seal and reinstall.  It should at least prevent the oil from finding the easiest path down the shaft... i hope.

[JeyLux]

I resolved the issue.

as i had expected the cam shaft had wear at the seal point. I installed an O-Ring behind the seal to create a diversion path for the oil, and set the seal slightly forward to allow it seal on a different spot.


Problem Solved!

[JeyLux]

spoke too soon.

still an issue.

i think the cam has too much wear on the seal point...


anyone else ever had this issue?

I think i'm going to sleeve it... not sure yet....

what did you do?

Do they make a CB350, CL350 hot cam i could use?  i figure if i need to buy a new cam, why not make it bad ass?

[Raul CB750K1]

I have a hard time believing that the cam can wear where it touches the rubber seal, even before the cam wears in the plain bearings.

How did you remove the seal? How did you install the new one? Did you oiled the shaft and seal before? Does it leak by the shaft, or by the housing? Did the shaft really look worn?

[JeyLux]

I have a hard time believing that the cam can wear where it touches the rubber seal, even before the cam wears in the plain bearings.

How did you remove the seal? How did you install the new one? Did you oiled the shaft and seal before? Does it leak by the shaft, or by the housing? Did the shaft really look worn?

i agree it's hard to believe.  I haven't re-inspected.

I removed the oil seal with a pick in the middle of the seal not to damage the sealing face on the cam, nor the outter 'race' that it seats in.

i didn't lube the seal on the O.D, as it fit well, i fingered some oil around the ID to help it along on the cam.  Other than that nothing.

It's coming out of that seal like all hell. 40 miles and the side of the bike is covered and the points are about hit...

i don't feel an movement on the cam (axial or radial) via the access ports and ends... )

but, for a 30 year old bike, with only 8k miles, who knows... maybe there was a lot of sand on the seal face, and it wore a groove? 

I will inspect this week after vacation and find out... i will post photos. 

I just have a hard time finding the leak... i can't run without points and crap in there to see it actually spraying out... the seal normally looks pretty dry, but there's a lot of oil in there.   Where else, if not that seal, could it be coming from?

[Raul CB750K1]

The points and advance mechanism housing is bolted to the head, and there should be a gasket behind. Could it be the gasket is letting oil going past the bolts?

You can always remove the advance mechanism and the housing, so you have a better leverage to install the seal, but due to the force of the camchain you may have to struggle a bit to install the housing again into the camshaft.

If I were you I would thorougfully clean everything, start the bike with the points cover off and check where does the oil come from. 8K miles is nothing.

[JeyLux]

The points and advance mechanism housing is bolted to the head, and there should be a gasket behind. Could it be the gasket is letting oil going past the bolts?

You can always remove the advance mechanism and the housing, so you have a better leverage to install the seal, but due to the force of the camchain you may have to struggle a bit to install the housing again into the camshaft.

If I were you I would thorougfully clean everything, start the bike with the points cover off and check where does the oil come from. 8K miles is nothing.

i've done it.  doesn't leak below 4k is my guess... how bad is it to run it in neutral at high RPM?  I had always been told it's bad to run high RPM without load.

Standard driving for me is about 5500 - 6000 rpm, and the leak shows up about 30 miles after fix.

I got home today. I will dig into it tomorrow and see what I have.

Anyone have a good source for the seal? I ordered it from bike bandit last time only because I had ordered a new jacket there at  the same time.  Tooooo fooooor ever to get the seal.

[Raul CB750K1]

I ordered mine directly from Honda....

[JeyLux]

what if the oil return passage is clogged?


that would cause a buildup of oil behind the seal ...

(hence why it didn't start leaking until about 35 miles into my 40 mile journey??


not sure yet...

still trying to sort this #$%* out...

[low-side]

There are also o-rings that seal the rocker shaft from the housing that can leak into the same area, and they take time to do so initially because they have to fill the hole first before they can leak past the nut and drain into the bottom of the points housing.  If it ends up being this, get the o-rings from Honda because they are the most bizarre size ever and nothing else will work.