Author Topic: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report  (Read 12180 times)

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Offline kayaker43

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650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« on: September 08, 2008, 08:03:19 PM »
Well I finally got tired of waiting for someone else to try it. I was going on a 1000 mile trip so I found the time to swap cams. I searched and although others have done the swap and everyone knows it will fit, I could find no good report on how it ran. Most people do it with other mods, or do it and never report back. It still amazes me that after more than 25 years its not common knowledge??

Enough ranting,.. it works really well. This was the only modification made and its resulted in a real solid noticable improvement. Much more than any bolt on mod like headers, air filters, ignitions etc...

My bike is a 75 CB550 with hooker header and foam pod filters. I spent a lot of time to get the jetting right and it really ran well before the swap. For those who don't know, running pods will cost you a little low end power compared to the stock airbox. but presumably help a little on top? The hooker header slightly intensifies the normal 5-7K rpm surge of the stock bike. Like I said it ran great before the cam swap.

Now it just runs better, I would guess maybe 15% improvement under 4000 rpm and 10% more up to redline. The normal 5-7K sweet spot is maybe 4-7K now. The tach won't work now but it surely comes on a full 1000 rpm sooner. Don't get me wrong, its still an old slow bike but it sure is more fun to ride now with better low end and fatter mid range. It feels healthier all the way to redline but no huge gains on top. Even after 1000 mile ride, I still notice it runs better than stock and I've owned 12 CB500/550's over the years including a couple full Yoshimura powered racers.

This is an excellent choice for a daily driver, its roughly equivilent to a stage 1 street cam and you can find them on ebay cheap.

Here's the best part, its a drop in replacement, just use the 550 sprocket and time it like normal. no need to degree the cam and forget all you hear about swapping coil wires, and different firing orders. Its made from the same blank as a 550 cam with all lobes in the same place. No jetting was required and it even made the exhaust note a little sharper.

The only minor issues are the different tach drive ratio and some people report needing to clearance the head for the taller lobes.
The tach drive issue can be dealt with by removing the plastic driven gear and plugging the hole (use an electric tach) or use the 650 driven gear and a 650 tach. Don't use the 650 cam with the 550 gear or it will destroy the plastic gear.

I checked several heads I had and always had at least .030 clearance between the lobes and the casting. Just lay the cam in place and spin to check clearances. If yours hits it will only need slight scraping with a pocket knife to remove a little aluminum from the top edge of the oil reservior walls,.. No big deal and I wouldn't make a big mess with a dremel.

So there ya go,.. plug and play, its worth the trouble.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 08:52:45 PM by kayaker43 »

Offline scunny

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 08:10:47 PM »
about time we had a ride report on the 650 cam swap.
now how about a cam for the 650, seems to really be the red headed step child when it comes to be a bit more varooooom
past-cb100,ts250,cb500,cb500,gs1000,gs650g.phillips traveller
present-CB 650 retro
            VTR1000F3
           XL250S riverbed rocket
           TS250[sold]
           TS185[sold]
           XL125S[sold]
           MT50 (white)
           MT50 (red)[sold]
           KN250/XS400 project
           XR/XL250 bitsa under construction
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Offline squirley

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 08:10:59 PM »
I guess that you are referring to me as one of those people that you were getting tired of waiting for...All kidding aside, good work and I am glad it made a noticeable difference.  Maybe when I get mine going I can be of some use by let you know how it does with a ported head.
Thanks for posting.

Offline kayaker43

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 08:21:30 PM »
No problem, I'm glad you forced me to do it. Your ported head would have made you unsure how much increase was due to the cam anyway. I really wanted an apples to apples comparison with no other mods done at the same time.

Apparently any aftermarket CB550 cam will also drop into a 650 with the usual tach gear issues.

I'm also guessing the 650 valve springs are heavier to deal with the added lift and larger valves of the 650. They may be a good upgrade to 550 springs?

Offline paulages

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 08:29:32 PM »
great to hear! i knew it would work, just didn't know what the result would be. as you mentioned, a hot 550 cam will work fine in the 650 head. i'm running a megacycle 126-21 in the 718cc engine. i almost threw one in out of impatience also, but found a funner path...  ;)
paul
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1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
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Offline scunny

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 08:33:29 PM »
I might have to try that paulages but am still choking on fibreglass after copying your seat build. you are a dangerous man  ;D
past-cb100,ts250,cb500,cb500,gs1000,gs650g.phillips traveller
present-CB 650 retro
            VTR1000F3
           XL250S riverbed rocket
           TS250[sold]
           TS185[sold]
           XL125S[sold]
           MT50 (white)
           MT50 (red)[sold]
           KN250/XS400 project
           XR/XL250 bitsa under construction
           SL100[sold]
           XL250R
           pedal(pub bike) leaks oil
my gallery http://gallery.sohc4.net/members/personal/scunny

Offline kayaker43

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 08:49:59 PM »
I can't wait till you get the 718 all sorted out and get some dyno results? I'm surprised you went all out on the motor, then skimped on the carbs  ???

Yoshimura ran the CR 31's on their bikes and they were only 590cc. At least put some 29 smoothbores or CR29's on to let that beast breathe!!

Offline paulages

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2008, 12:09:31 AM »
I can't wait till you get the 718 all sorted out and get some dyno results? I'm surprised you went all out on the motor, then skimped on the carbs  ???

Yoshimura ran the CR 31's on their bikes and they were only 590cc. At least put some 29 smoothbores or CR29's on to let that beast breathe!!

search "718 dyno"... there are some early results already.  ;) believe me, i want some CR carbs, just have to save for them. i'm kicking myself for not buying some CR29s from a forum member last year for $400. think he and the carbs are long gone from the forum now.
paul
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1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2008, 01:10:23 AM »
Kayaker

Thanks for reporting back. I too have a 650 cam awaiting a home in my 550 rebuild. Now I feel confident that the 650 cam was a good consideration for my project bike.

FJ
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Offline hymodyne

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2008, 05:46:27 AM »
Mazeltov Kayaker!

I am one of those afraid to make the swap (with the engine issues I've had, I didn't want to confuse things further).

I have the 650 cm and the tach cable. With a Riecke'd stage 2 head and HA 605 Overbore kit in my 500K1, maybe this will help.

hym
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Offline EdB

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2008, 09:49:13 AM »
are the sohc650 cams the same for all years?. or any specific year?
But thence came the Great Schism, when the two like tribes diverged, and the Bobbers did take the Road to Cruiserdom and the Cafe Racers did ride to Sportbikedom and they did pollute the lands along their paths with their abominable spawn of Choppers, Stuntaz and like manner of unholy douchebaggery

Offline kayaker43

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2008, 10:21:42 AM »
All 650 cams are the same except for some crazy non US version that was restricted to only 50 HP.

Offline EdB

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2008, 11:30:48 AM »
well, $30 or so for more scoot in my scoot sounds good to me
But thence came the Great Schism, when the two like tribes diverged, and the Bobbers did take the Road to Cruiserdom and the Cafe Racers did ride to Sportbikedom and they did pollute the lands along their paths with their abominable spawn of Choppers, Stuntaz and like manner of unholy douchebaggery

Offline kayaker43

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 01:02:27 PM »
Its way better than any external mods you can do. The improvement also seems more than if you upped the displacement some. I've ridden bikes overbored to 570cc with no other mods and they didn't feel as improved even at a much higher cost.

The cam swap should be the first thing anyone tries. Its funny,.. there's a similar cam swap with Suzuki SV650's that works well but its very widely known. How this remained a relative secret so long is amazing???

I think I just increased the market value of ebay 650 cams?

If either the donor cam or your bike has over 10,000 miles you should check the rocker arms too. They sort of wear as a set.,.. not super critical and most people won't care, but I hate to mix worn parts with new. In my case both had low miles but I used the 650 rockers too because I had them.

Offline manjisann

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 01:21:07 PM »
Any idea if this would work on a cb500 k2? Sorry, don't know much about the differences between the 500 and 550's, other than the pistons are bigger. I know there is a lot of interchangeability between the two, just not sure if this is one of em.

Thanks,

Brandon
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Offline kayaker43

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2008, 01:25:42 PM »
Should work great in any CB500/550,.. pistons and some changes to the clutch/transmission are the main differences, they use the same head, cam carbs etc.

Offline EdB

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2008, 01:41:58 PM »
just hit feebay. 650 cam, discrip said it was a 12k motor. $26 +$11 shipped.
But thence came the Great Schism, when the two like tribes diverged, and the Bobbers did take the Road to Cruiserdom and the Cafe Racers did ride to Sportbikedom and they did pollute the lands along their paths with their abominable spawn of Choppers, Stuntaz and like manner of unholy douchebaggery

Offline kayaker43

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2008, 05:20:56 PM »
Wow $37.00 ... you're really dropping some cash on that old bike. And to think, you could have spent a few hundred on a Dyna ignition and got no more power but some really cool stickers.

All kidding aside,.. ya gotta love low buck hop ups on cheap bikes. On my last group ride we swapped bikes around and no one could believe a 33 year old bike worth $800 could run so damn SWEET! Guys with their british twins must have thought it was some kind of space ship back in 1975?

I keep slamming Dyna for no good reason except its a pricey item that does relatively little for you. I think the two best bang for the buck mods are the 650 cam and a Hondaman ignition,.. oh and a header sounds cool on the old fours too.

Offline EdB

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2008, 08:23:02 PM »
i actually have a dyna ignition. i got it before i heard or before hondaman made his ignition. it wasn't to bad.  ::) under $200 i think. i wanna say around 150.  i have pods, open header right now, and dropped a few pounds off the bike. i put a walmart exhaust tip on it cause i wanted a better exhaust but didnt have much $$. i ended up liking the open header a lot so i stuck with it. started fooling around with the jets but ill wait to get the cam in untill i start messin with it more
But thence came the Great Schism, when the two like tribes diverged, and the Bobbers did take the Road to Cruiserdom and the Cafe Racers did ride to Sportbikedom and they did pollute the lands along their paths with their abominable spawn of Choppers, Stuntaz and like manner of unholy douchebaggery

Offline manjisann

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2008, 01:50:52 PM »
Sorry, not trying to jack this thread, but I am intrigued. If I was to stick a 650 cam into my 500 K2, what would this do? Is there anything special I would need to do, other than make sure it has enough room to spin? Would I need a different Cam Chain, or line it up differently?

Thanks for any info.

Brandon
Sure it's for sale! How much you ask?? Well, how much are you willing to pay??? Now triple it, that's the price!

1973 CB500 K2 - Sold the bike and bought a Mig, Miss the bike, Love the Mig :D
1980 CB650 Custom
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Offline kayaker43

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2008, 02:22:50 PM »
Brandon

Start on page one its all explained here. The 500-550 are the same, just use the 500 sprocket on the 650 cam, insatll as per the manual and make sure it spins without hitting.

Offline youngerthanmybike

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2008, 09:26:51 PM »
I just ordered my 650 cam for my 550, and I'm curious-
Without having it in my hands, and I've never seen the tach gear for the 650 cam, do you think the tach drive gear for the 650 would plug into the 550 cable? Or would the 650 cable and gear plug into the 550 tach gauge itself?
That would be much easier than swapping the entire tach, etc.

Offline paulages

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2008, 11:14:45 PM »
I just ordered my 650 cam for my 550, and I'm curious-
Without having it in my hands, and I've never seen the tach gear for the 650 cam, do you think the tach drive gear for the 650 would plug into the 550 cable? Or would the 650 cable and gear plug into the 550 tach gauge itself?
That would be much easier than swapping the entire tach, etc.

no. the gearing is simply different. you need the the 650 drive, gear, cable, and tach.
paul
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1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline BlindJoe

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2008, 01:00:57 AM »
Awesome, thanks for the report!, I'm definitely gonna be checking ebay now.

Offline ieism

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Re: 650 cam in a 550 - ride report
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2008, 11:03:11 AM »
Damn.

I just put my engine back together last week. And I know I can't live without this cam....
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