Author Topic: Solved: Why do they sound "sick" at low rpm?  (Read 2097 times)

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Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Solved: Why do they sound "sick" at low rpm?
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2023, 10:22:10 am »
Okay! Got it. Reversion is crazy. I always thought carburetion was a one way path. Come to think of it, some gas must be going backwards, because my air filter stinks like petrol (unless that's something else).

I hate to state the obvious (but I'm going to)... if I better understood basic principles of carburetion, I'll bet my bike would run better.

Pewe: This video? I wish my bike ran that smooth!

An improperly  adjusted intake valve will cause a wet air cleaner and cause poor idle qualities.
It can be easy to detect if you’ve got an intake being held off it’s seat or it lightly burnt. It will make a spuuck spuuck spuuck noise backwards out the carburetor of the offending intake valve cylinder when slightly opening the throttle slowly. Especially under a load. You can see it and hear it better with the air cleaner off or with pods..
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Offline Kaze

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Re: Solved: Why do they sound "sick" at low rpm?
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2023, 01:58:40 pm »
I just realized... if all this were easy, races would be a bit boring because all the bikes would be perfect.
Everyone sees the person racing the bike, but perhaps the person or people doing the engine work (if not the same guy) need more credit.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Solved: Why do they sound "sick" at low rpm?
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2023, 02:16:59 pm »
Some research into '70s-era Hot Rod magazine articals focused on cam-timing and intake/exhaust-valve-overlap with narrow to wide cam-lobe centers will answer many of your questions.
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline Kaze

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Re: Solved: Why do they sound "sick" at low rpm?
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2023, 02:43:04 pm »
Oh thanks, that's a good suggestion.
I wish I could ask for homework, but I don't think I could afford the lab fees. :)

If anybody else is interested, the entire Hot Rod magazine archive is available for free here:
https://www.motortrend.com/plus/magazines/hot-rod/3169
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 03:18:46 pm by Kaze »

Offline PeWe

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Re: Solved: Why do they sound "sick" at low rpm?
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2023, 11:38:39 pm »
Megacycle cam spec with comments about use will give you a clue about lift vs open/close/duration.
Their list have profiles for all.

http://www.satanicmechanic.org/megacyclecam.shtml

Megacycle cam spec for 125-20/25 is not correct.
IN lift is not 0.338", it's higher, 0.388".
The cam card that followed my 125-20 say that as well as my measurement when I timed the cam.

There are many cams, all of them must have been designed for a specific purpose like dragracing, roadracing at constant high revs running hot, street use with a general power increase from low to high......

Other modifications. CR, valve size, lift that need lower sitting guides etc.

Frame kit a must.
I tested different timing with Megacycle 125-75.

Dyno shoved around 104whp at ca 9000rpm.

Retarded timing from IN open ca 26* (at 0 lash acording to cam spec.) to ca 24 degrees.

Next dyno run was short when top power got almost 10whp less!!  Dyny guy did not charge me. Go home and redo!!

All my dyno visits to find correct carb jetting.

Later visits when cam was slightly advanced, IN open ca 27.5* at 0 lash, 107.5whp on std fuel.

Very aggressive cams, quick opening cause more stress on the valve train.

My K6 running 836cc in the 80's had a very good cam for street and touring. Mild profile but still giving good power. Action Fours SS-1. Shape of the lobes for less stress.

A friend has a NOS Kenny Harmon Super F cam in its box. Lobes look huge. The supplied spec clearly say Not for street use!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 12:35:01 am by PeWe »
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Offline NitroHunter

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Re: Solved: Why do they sound "sick" at low rpm?
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2023, 09:25:19 am »
Once we figure out how to burn 100gpm worth of fuel we'll get those flames up there...  ::)

So there's another unique dragbike sound unlike any other, the sound of a Supercharged, Nitro burning Metric Top Fueler. Our Flat-Plane cranks give it a much different sound than that of a Cross-Plane design American automotive 90 degree V-8, same with the V-Twin Fuelers.

Go on Facebook and Listen closely to some of the CycleDrag videos of Larry McBrides TF runs, there's a lot going on.

Of course they run relatively smooth when we start them on gasoline. The fuel pump is off at the warm up start. Due to using a Screw-type blower the bikes can warm up completely on alcohol; the cars on the other hand go right to running nitro as their roots-type blowers use nylon stripping to seal the rotors, and there is fuel fed above them as a lubricant. The proportionate amount of alcohol would flood the engine.

All of the blown fuelers, both 2 and 4 wheel, idle at over 2000 rpm. There is still manifold vacuum at this point. Even with 300 degrees duration, lumpy cam reversion isn't an issue as low pressure fuel is being injected directly adjacent to the intake valves.

TF Bike motors run about 92 cid vs the NHRA 500 cid, with both burning a proportionate amount of fuel. Generally both roll in to stage at ~2700rpm, with the bike burning 1 gpm vs 5 gpm. Just before launch you can really hear the changes, the car rpms drop slightly as the second fuel pump is turned on, and the bike rpms go noticeably higher to 3500 with the activation of a staging high idle circuit. Motor speed=pump speed=fuel flow. As soon as that additional fuel is present, the pipe (cylinder ) temps drop rapidly in both applications, which could cause dropped (misfiring) holes, so it is a last moment thing. At the hit we see 10gpm vs 60, accounting for the flame height difference.

The thunder of the TF V-Twins now, that's another story. They can run 200cid motors, some with 5 1/4 inch stroke cranks,  :o :o They leave at a fast idle and still rev those stroked monsters over 5 grand. Most are normally asperated (injected only) though there are a few blown combinations out there being tried. Many passes are on the wheelie bars past half track over 200mph. Often the front tire smokes once it finally hits the track. These are best experienced live and in person.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2023, 07:40:37 am by NitroHunter »
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Solved: Why do they sound "sick" at low rpm?
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2023, 09:34:55 am »
Very interesting............. ;) ;)
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
'63 CL72 Project(s)
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2020 ROYAL ENFIELD Himalayan