Topic: Did the Honda Engineer Really Get Hung-up and Shot?

[RRRToolSolutions]

You know, the one that designed the Honda CB750 cylinderhead. Was he really shot at noon on the public square, or was I just having a good dream?

Every time I change the #2 and #3 plugs in my CB750, I am reminded that not all things Honda are wonderful. I normally praise their designs and I'velong recognized their engineering supremecy....that is until I once again have to pull the tank and work like a contortionist to get my hands in there to torque the plugs and replace the sparkplug wire.

No, it does not help that I have added a big oil cooler just between the frame rails in front of the head and these Dyna wires are about as flimsy as wet noodles. I only have one bike that's worse - the ZRX - yes, getting to those requires removal of more than the tank - and it's stock!

Rant over. Gordon

[754]

Sounds like the cooler is screwing up your plug removal..


For decades we used these tricks,

Slip a short piece of rubber hose over the plug to start it in the hole, to prevent cross threading.

Get a stock type plug wrench, then find a 1/4 drive socket that fits in (may  require shortening plug wrench).. then weld the 2 together..


 this will make a HUGE difference...

[wiredbecker]

For decades we used these tricks,

Slip a short piece of rubber hose over the plug to start it in the hole, to prevent cross threading.

Damn, I just heard this trick yesterday! One day too late of course. I installed new plugs on Sunday. My improvised workaround was to carefully shim the socket with a piece of cardboard from the spark plug box and install.

[medic09]

I just use a screwdriver through the holes in the plug wrench, and patiently slowly turn it in the possible tiny increments until the plug is seated.  Too lazy to remove the tank.

But I do agree, Gordon; it could clearly have been made a bit easier.

[Artfrombama]

You should try to put plugs in a 03 Nissan Frontier.

I'll carry the scars to my grave.

[Hope]

You should try to put plugs in a 03 Nissan Frontier.

I'll carry the scars to my grave.

Hint hint...

they make a special tool that comes with your tire tool kit that actually will help put the plugs in your frontier.  I changed the plugs in my 99 frontier - all but #6 - then found the tool they referenced in the owner's manual.  This will make your job much easier.

I also use the tool Honda provided to help put the plugs in my 550.

[paulages]

the stock honda toolkit plugwrench is all i'll use. it is certainly in an inconvenient location, but no 18mm socket or aftermarket plug wrench works anywhere near as well IMO. i feel your pain though, gordon.

[Artfrombama]

You should try to put plugs in a 03 Nissan Frontier.

I'll carry the scars to my grave.

Hint hint...

they make a special tool that comes with your tire tool kit that actually will help put the plugs in your frontier.  I changed the plugs in my 99 frontier - all but #6 - then found the tool they referenced in the owner's manual.  This will make your job much easier.

I also use the tool Honda provided to help put the plugs in my 550.

Owners manual?? [slaps forehead] Never dawned on me to look.

#6 was a little bi***. Used two swivels, a mirror and a magnet (to find lost wrenches).

[eldar]

I suppose the baby 4s might be a tighter fit but I never have an issue with putting my plugs back in. I use a craftsman 18mm socket with a 3 inch extension. So all I can say is "what's this crossthreading thing?"

[rbmgf7]

asians have small hands, like me. i tend to come in handy when my buddies can't reach within the nooks and crannies in engine compartment

my only beef with the #3 plug is the angle of the plug hole causes the socket to rub against the cylinder. when i go to tighten the plug, the socket will get wedged and then i have to shimmy a set of pliers to pull the socket back out

[wildcatmahone]

+1 on the 18mm socket and extension its exactly what I use. Doesnt get much easier than that I just finger tighten and its virtually impossible to cross thread or over torque the plugs.

[martino1972]

try doing a 1993 ford aerostar 4.0 liter v 6.....
after one of those a sohc is a warm summer breeze.....

[mark]

Did the Honda Engineer Really Get Hung-up and Shot?

You know, the one that designed the Honda CB750 cylinderhead. Was he really shot at noon on the public square, or was I just having a good dream?

...........

No. He received a promotion and soon afterward transferred to the automotive division. His shining achievement there was the perfection of Honda's process for honing razor edges on all underhood sheetmetal.

[dustyc]

I should take a pic of my van's engine to make you feel better.  Good thing it can be accessed from inside, but doesn't help much when doing things on the front of the engine. 

This is turning into the "Engineering Nightmares" thread.

[martino1972]

 

This is turning into the "Engineering Nightmares" thread.

oke,try and replace the engine in a 1996 camaro v8

[MCRider]

asians have small hands, like me. i tend to come in handy when my buddies can't reach within the nooks and crannies in engine compartment

my only beef with the #3 plug is the angle of the plug hole causes the socket to rub against the cylinder. when i go to tighten the plug, the socket will get wedged and then i have to shimmy a set of pliers to pull the socket back out

That's what bench grinders are for.   I use the deepwell socket, properly ground, with a plug wrench foam insert to hold the plug, and a swivel (tape up the swivel with electricians tape so it doesn't act all loosey goosey)  and extension. No prob.

[OldSchool_IsCool]

'77 Chevy Monza.  just a lit'l sh**'n 4-cylinder.  Had to pull the engine or cut a hole in the firewall to change #3 & #4.  This of course is well before the high millage plugs that are available today.

[goon 1492]

try doing a 1993 ford aerostar 4.0 liter v 6.....
after one of those a sohc is a warm summer breeze.....

Thats what i was waiting for, I bought a 93' even from my mom for the wifey, popped the hood took a look around and went......HOLY JESUS I CAN'T WORK ON THIS THING!!!! WHERE IN THE HELL ARE THE PLUGS!!! and if thats not enought take a look at the fine device they call a voltage regulator on it , or even better when you think your battery is bad and won't take a charge look in the fuse box on the engine bay and theres a little diode the size of a square fuse, that little dude goes bad and your charging system won't charge the battery it just sucks the life out of your battery while the charging system doesn't even come on..... That little diode is 50.00$ ask me how I know this??? , needless to say that got traded in for Big D aka big sexy(03' ram BLACK AND CHROME 1500 4x4 quad cab 5.9liter) , my little 5'2" 100lb wife loves the big truck better than a minivan .

[goon 1492]

'77 Chevy Monza.  just a lit'l sh**'n 4-cylinder.  Had to pull the engine or cut a hole in the firewall to change #3 & #4.  This of course is well before the high millage plugs that are available today.

That thing is screamin for a 350 to be dropped in, my sister had one of the monza spiders when I was little, it had a 350 in it and man it was fast!

[MRieck]

 That engineer must have lived through the mid eighties as he apparently designed the carb set up for V4 Honda's. I use 1/4" drive stuff with one swivel between the socket and the extension. Obviously you need a 1/4 to 3/8 adaptor. You can grind some of the boss (where the studs go through) in the #2 and #3 wells....it makes a big difference getting the socket in and out. Unfortunately you have to have the head off to do that.

[dustyc]

I have to say when Mark and Martino post together, the screen gets really busy.  Spinning head, sneaking skeleton and crotch on fire dance all at once makes me feel like I'm living in a cuckoo clock.

[MCRider]

asians have small hands, like me. i tend to come in handy when my buddies can't reach within the nooks and crannies in engine compartment

my only beef with the #3 plug is the angle of the plug hole causes the socket to rub against the cylinder. when i go to tighten the plug, the socket will get wedged and then i have to shimmy a set of pliers to pull the socket back out

That's what bench grinders are for.   I use the deepwell socket, properly ground, with a plug wrench foam insert to hold the plug, and a swivel (tape up the swivel with electricians tape so it doesn't act all loosey goosey)  and extension. No prob.

Like this: The deepwell socket is 1/2 inch drive, ground down to clear the head casting, then 1/2 to 3/8 adapter, then a wobbly taped up to make it stiffer. Tape gives when in use.

[Hush]

Wasn't that same engineer resposible for adding all the extra not required tunnels and tubes in Honda SOHC carbs?
He later went on to calculate the exact distance from the back of the SOHC cylinder head to the air box then subtracting 2 inches to successfully remove the most skin from owners fingers as they work on them.

[RRRToolSolutions]

Ok guys, while that little feller with those small hands was deciding he'd done a good job with the design and plug locations - why the heck didn't he design a socket to torque them?

I have the stock tool kit wrench and use it to get them started. It's when I want to torque them to 14 lbs/feet that I have a heck of a time getting my thin-wall, deep-well, 18mm sparkplug socket on the plugs - and then getting that socket off when the extention pulls out and you're left with a deep-well burried deep in the head where there is nothing to grab onto for removal - that's really sweet!

Lastly is the joy of getting my big, fat hands in there enough to aim that male/female wire end onto the plug when replacing the wires to the #2 and # 3 plugs.

I don't have kids around anymore so I'm stuck with getting them in they myself.

I'm just relieved that you guys are sharing the pain with me. Now where is that little engineer?

Gordon  

[MCRider]

Ok guys, while that little feller with those small hands was deciding he'd done a good job with the design and plug locations - why the heck didn't he design a socket to torque them?

I have the stock tool kit wrench and use it to get them started. It's when I want to torque them to 14 lbs/feet that I have a heck of a time getting my thin-wall, deep-well, 18mm sparkplug socket on the plugs - and then getting that socket off when the extention pulls out and you're left with a deep-well burried deep in the head where there is nothing to grab onto for removal - that's really sweet!

Lastly is the joy of getting my big, fat hands in there enough to aim that male/female wire end onto the plug when replacing the wires to the #2 and # 3 plugs.

I don't have kids around anymore so I'm stuck with getting them in they myself.

I'm just relieved that you guys are sharing the pain with me. Now where is that little engineer?

Gordon  

First point: I think if you use a 1/2 drive deepwell with a 1/2 to 3/8 adapter, and grind the corners down so it doesn't hang up on the head casting, you won't have any trouble pulling it out as it sticks out further, and that's even with a spark plug cushion shoved into the deep well.
Second: this may cause an uproar, but I don't worry about the torque. You run the new plug in til you feel it bottom, then you give it a 1/4 turn to crush the ceiling washer, and you're done.

If you have to torque it, you could use my tool set up, with the extension and the floppy joint, and with trial and error you could determine how much torque at an angle equals the torque you are looking for straight on. I'll bet it's close to the 1/4 turn method.

In fact I think I'll test it when I get a chance.