Author Topic: General questions for 550 bikes  (Read 2163 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tretnine

  • Prove it,
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 577
  • Figuring it out, one expletive at a time.
    • http://www.behindbarsmotorcycle.com/
General questions for 550 bikes
« on: September 05, 2008, 08:13:12 AM »
You can see in my profile pic my yellow machine. I got it a few months ago and I'm already working on a dual brake disk conversion. I have a lot of questions, though, about this and other things. I'm eager to get it painted and beautiful... but first I need some advice and to take care of a whole lot of work so I don't go and destroy it by doing necessary work. I'm starting this thread for myself and for anyone who might be in my shoes. I'm looking for the opinions and views of members of this forum about many of the things discussed. I'm relatively new to bike work, but love to do it and need help since I don't have a support group here. Thanks!

Here are the questions...

Has anyone podded a 550, and what is your opinion of the mod? What else in the carb did you need to mod to get it balanced again?


I have cracks in my rubber boots from the airbox to the carbs. I need to get this taken care of. However finding these is rubber bits is hard and a couple of mine are totally destroyed. Hondaman seems to think podding is not too great of a solution, or at least not worth the noise it produces. It also seems like it's a hell of a lot of work to get the carbs all balanced. Thoughts, opinions?

What are other ways to port the air from the airbox to the carbs? Other than podding

Radiator hose? Something? I can't find much on the net to replace these broken rubbers, and I don't want it to look terrible. Advice? what have you guys done?

How have your dual disk conversions turned out and what type of brake lines did you use?

I ran one braided line down to the joint and then did just like the manual said and split to two directly after to go to my two calipers. My brakes, however are not very responsive on the initial squeeze. It takes a couple of good pumps to build pressure, which totally negates the conversion. I used a master from a gl 1100 or 1500 from '92. I pulled one of the calipers back off and it's got great pressure/reaction with just the one caliper. Would this work better if 2 lines were run directly from the master to the calipers or might I have another problem? I've bled and rebled, that didn't seem to be the problem.

Has anyone had their brake rotors drilled as done in the tutorial?

 I'd love to have my rotors drilled like this, but am leery of any changes in the brake system, especially if there is potential for death. (Yikes!) all the same, overall braking increases is worth looking in to. tips tricks opinions and thoughts are welcome.

What does the jetting look like on your bike with a stock airbox?

it looks like hondaman (my go to guy for all these tips and tricks) suggests these bikes burn rich from the factory. I don't doubt this. I live in virginia (maybe that'd make a difference for jetting) what do you guys find works well/better as far as carb jetting with factory airbox? What jets are you using?

What are your thoughts on the four into four exhaust system?

Pretty straightforward. I've seen opinions on four into one and four into two, but not what I have, four into four.

Has anyone actually increased mileage by replacing/modifying fuel emulsifiers?


I'm also curious on other mods you guys have made. I don't have a lot of cash to spend (i'm a teacher by trade) on mods and alterations, but I love this bike, even if it's a bit rough around the edges. My wife is pretty tolerant about buying parts for this thing. SO. Opinions on different cams and sprockets etc. are totally welcome here.
http://www.behindbarsmotorcycle.com/

2009 Kawasaki Concours, 1978 cb550k, 2006 BMW F650GS

Member of the AMA

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: General questions for 550 bikes
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2008, 09:54:15 AM »
Not all 550's are the same, there were changes made over the years.  State you year and model.  4 into 4 tells me you have a K bike.  All the years prior to the 77-78 model have the air box rubbers available from David Silver Spares in the UK.

Pods only have a possible performance benefit at engine RPMs above 8000, or so.  If you plan to routinely rev that high and beyond red line then that may interest you. You can find used 550 engines fairly cheap.

The 4 into 4 in fine in my book,  A 4 into 1, if properly designed for length and tubing diameter can provide and extra scavenge effect at high RPMs.  This will provide a power boost, maybe 5%.  So, again, if you plan to operate the bike above  8K RPM and beyond red line, a good 4 into 1 will would be attractive.  The down side is the reflected pulses and shock wave from the exhaust of adjacent cylinders. interfere with cylinder scavenging at lower engine speeds.  So, you actually get less low end and midrange power from a a 4 into 1 than a 4 into 4.  A street bike actually performs better with a 4 into 4 for all around driving.  It is heavier, though.

I find that using a Uni NU-4055 drop in replacement foam filter, provides less vacuum drop in the carb throats than the stock paper filter.  This creates less pull on the carb fuel jets, thus leaning the mixture over the entire operating range.
I have not tried drilling my emulsion tubes for more holes.  I'm content with the 45-50 MPG, I get now.  I'm concerned that leaning the mixtures further, will cause operating temperature rise above what the cooling fins were designed to dissipate.
There is no fan, so motorcycle movement is required for cooling, and even this is effected by the temperature of the air.  Stop and go traffic or operation in high heat areas (Arizona?), along with a leaned mixture, it seems would shorten the machine life, if not hole a piston.  Experimentation has its costs, reward in not guaranteed.  But, you can find used 550 engines fairly cheap.

Stock airbox (Uni foam filter) and stock exhaust seems to work best with stock jetting and settings of the carbs.  However, I'm at sea level.  I'd consider changes if I operated primarily at higher altitudes, where less oxygen is gulped per intake cycle.

I find the stock gearing pretty good for all around operation.  17 Front and 37 rear.  I've had bikes with a 16 front and the acceleration improvement was noticeable.  Of course the fuel mileage suffered and the engine revved more on the freeway.  The engine is happy to rev up.  But, the more it turns per mile, the less miles are available for the same amount of turns.  Again, you can find used 550 engines fairly cheap.

It's a curious thing.  You say you love the bike.  But, you want to change it. ???   It will never be a modern sport bike or perform like one.  I kinda like them for what they are...  I've been called weird before, I suppose.
If you do the cafe thing it will only look different, be more uncomfortable to ride and become a thing to look at rather than ride.  The counter to this is that making modifications can be a rewarding learning experience. 
And, 550's are fairly cheap.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline ieism

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 832
Re: General questions for 550 bikes
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2008, 10:46:41 AM »
tell me more about the brakeproblem. I have dual disk on one of my 550's, and it's a pretty good improvement.
Does the lever come al the way to the bar, and does it feel soft?

Bleeding these brakes is a little tricky, are you sure you got it right?
---cb550---

Offline Tretnine

  • Prove it,
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 577
  • Figuring it out, one expletive at a time.
    • http://www.behindbarsmotorcycle.com/
Re: General questions for 550 bikes
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2008, 11:46:44 AM »
My bike is a 78 cb550k in response to twotired. I do love the bike, but I like to modify and learn as I'm going. I definitely want to keep the stock engine, but a mod or two here and there are alright, it's still the same bike. My machine is not pristine to begin with. It's got a klinker can coat on the gas tank and the pipes aren't exactly free of rust, the airbox rubbers are broken, old tubes, rusty rims, etc etc. It's the kind of bike that says hey, fix me up and I'd like to add some personal flair. Squeezing a bit extra out of the motor sounds like fun, but I'd like to do it in ways that either increase performance, (through more efficient/better components) or that simply increase mileage (like the emulsifier)Safety is important, so the dual disk brake mod job is a must, my wife and I ride together a lot, so high revving is not something that usually happens, instead we cruise VA back roads. If I can further increase the performance of the bike and the brakes by cutting wheel weight and increasing heat displacement, I'm all for it. Also, it's a daily commuter, so efficiency and safety are something I'm looking for. So, Mods are welcome on this rig. I don't want a high performance street rig. (definitely not my style) but a reliable bike with a little flash and fine tuning are totally cool. Plus, I just love getting in there and working on it.

That being said, if this bike was in lovely condition, I'd let it alone (mostly, I still hate sluggish stopping). I might try to get my hands on a 750 eventually and keep that as close to stock as possible... but like I said, I teach... so it's not like I fall asleep bundles of benjamins... so that may be a while down the road.


As for the brakes: I hope I got it right, I spent a long freeking time out there. Off the caliper I had a tube running out of the bleeder valve that was always full of brake fluid. I used dot4, as per the request of my master cyl. I started with the caliper further away. (I also started with the caliper closer) Not that that makes a whole huge amount of difference, because of that one line into two, either way. I bled, then rebled and bled until there was no bubbles, and nothing but lovely brake fluid pouring out.

Of course, after that the bleeder valve of one of the calipers was so stripped that I used a socket wrench to secure it on ... and it broke off. Also, there is nothing easy about an easy out. To cut the story short, there is a new caliper being delivered, hopefully today, and I will be trying again.

All of this, and I haven't discussed the symptoms. when I would grab the brakes after not having used them for a while. (meaning a minute or so, maybe less, maybe more, that is to say not one time after another in frequent succession, but from one stoplight to another it might be ok) so after not using them for a while they would be soft or 'spongy' but after  2,3,4 or so good pumps they would firm up and work quite well. (a marked improvement on the stock setup) but with that initial squeeze being a bit soft they're not good for sudden stopping. And... with the a-holes in this town once in a while I need that ability. The lever does not come all the way back to the bar.

I'm never sure I got it right as far as the bleeding goes, but I sure hope so. Well, that's not entirely true, I hope I got it wrong (so it's not something else) and when I try to put it together again it'll work better. All that being said, after I took the second caliper off it's very tight, all the time. So, that way sudden stopping is improved, but overall applicable stopping power is much lower.
http://www.behindbarsmotorcycle.com/

2009 Kawasaki Concours, 1978 cb550k, 2006 BMW F650GS

Member of the AMA

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: General questions for 550 bikes
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2008, 03:13:46 PM »
The 77 and 78 550 had PD style carbs.  These were the first 550s and carbs to come under regulatory scrutiny by the EPA.  They are as lean as can be without sacrificing engine pistons, and still meet EPA emissions requirement.
They also got the best mileage of all the 550s in stock form with the closest competition being the F models in the 550 line up.
Going to pods will make them leaner due to the loss of vacuum in the carb throats, and the engine will run significantly hotter.  To compensate, the Idle Mixture Screws (IMS) will need to be opened up some, to restore idle mixture.  The slide needles will need to be raised, and maybe the Main jet will need to replaced with larger.  You'll need a 4 position manometer the vacuum sync the carbs afterward.
Going to a 4 into 1 will also make the carbs provide a leaner mixture than needed.  The main will likely get larger and the slide needle might need adjusting, as well as the IMS.
Depending on how accurate you carb rejetting is, your mileage may only get worse by 5 MPG.  However, the above mods (Pods and 4 into 1) often have owners complaining of 35MPG.

Since you are poor, stock replacement 4 into 4 exhaust is unlikely to be found at  price withing your budget (You could get lucky, I suppose.)  But, good used ones go for more than $800 usually, (if the seller knows what he has), because there are NO new ones being made.
Aftermarket 4 into 4s  are usually far more expensive.
You might be able to find a 4 into 2 set up. But, the cheapest exhaust in the marketplace is the MAC 4 into 1 at abut $300.  It is NOT tuned for any performance boost from the engine.  But, it is lighter.  It will likely reduce your cruise power and efficiency for reasons I described in my earlier post.

Brakes on my 550s are single rotor, overhauled and use SS braided lines.  The lever is rock hard and I can squeal the front tire with strong hand pressure.  Not they are not one finger brakes.  But, I do not think sliding the front wheel or stoppies are an attractive proposition.  Yes wet performance is poor.  And, drilling the rotor would probably help that.  But, I just ride the brakes periodically to wipe off the water and allow extra distance for stopping and it suffices.  Beside if the brakes are too powerful tires will slide on wet roads, resulting in the rubber side up.  :'(
Lever travel is usually a function of stationary pad placement near the rotor.  The stock caliper calls for .006 clearance.

You will probably have to provide a better description of your brake mods, for us to give reasonable direction for improvement.

Some free advice about riding (and worth every penny):
The 550 motor does not have a lot of torque down low.  The engine doesn't get angry until there is 5K RPM on the clock.  The transmission is your ally and best friend.  When you want to scoot, drop a gear or three before twisting the throttle.  These bikes like to see red line frequently and it does them no harm.  Though, it might tighten your passenger's jaw some and make their eyes dry from being open so wide.

Cheers,







Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline ieism

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 832
Re: General questions for 550 bikes
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2008, 06:55:54 AM »
That sounds like you may still have some air in the system. Have you tried the trick where you pull the lever all the way to handlebar, and secure it using a tiewrap, and leave it overnight?
From my experience, dual brakes are even harder to bleed on these bikes.
---cb550---

Offline Tretnine

  • Prove it,
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 577
  • Figuring it out, one expletive at a time.
    • http://www.behindbarsmotorcycle.com/
Re: General questions for 550 bikes
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 06:09:30 AM »
hey thanks. I'll try this, it's quite possible there is a leak somewhere like that.
http://www.behindbarsmotorcycle.com/

2009 Kawasaki Concours, 1978 cb550k, 2006 BMW F650GS

Member of the AMA