Topic: 2 Stroke Project - Piston Port to Reeds

[RRRToolSolutions]

I'm moving this here Kaw stuff to the right place -

I wrote on a different thread -
Art, I don't want to sound like a kid making 1-ups, but you just don't know what "on-the-pipe" means. This bike goes from about 40 horsepower to over 150 in about 500 rpm and is practically un-ridable. I've got 38 miles on it in 3 years and will soon have another $2,000 invested in getting reed blocks installed in the cylinders to help the first 6,000 rpm pull the creases out of my jeans. What was I thinking when I got the stage III porting and left the piston port induction on this one? These engines dyno at 161 at 9,800 rpm and are built by the shop with the world's record in 2-stroke triples. His latest creation has a 750 making over 220 horses - all on gas and premix Not for street though. These like mine are their limit for street/pump gas.

This next modification is going to be interesting. We'll be taking it to carbon fiber reeds using the 800-1000 Arctic Cat triple snowmobil engine design and CNC machined blocks.

The reeds are made for the sleds - they have lots of go fast stuff for them. I bought the stock sled reed cages too, but these Force 3's have 12 petals per cage - 36 to feed the monster. They were first developed for Ricky Carmichael in 2003. The trick is cuttin 3 giant 3"x4" holes in the cylinders and installing the huge blocks that those reeds fit into. That will be done this winter.

Art, it's got a 3" over swinger and stiff ZRX shocks with a 130 tire. It has caught me a couple of times stabbing the brakes to avoid a quick back-flip. Most of the time, you just see the tach make it's way right a little faster than normal. It's when it happens in turns that I don't like. I've almost lost it several times, so I've left it sitting in the garage.

The reeds are proven to prevent the reversion that happens at engine speeds below 6,000. The port timing is so wide that it's getting pushed back into the intake until that magic rpm is reached - bam! you're slammed with zero warning (sounds kind of fun, but it isn't). Those hydroformed pipes are 1-offs and were made in combinaton with the engine builder and his dyno. He is the same fellow doing my reed conversion for me, so I'm very confident it will make for a wicked combination - bottom torque and stupid power up top. These big reeds are not supposed to hurt any of the big power and cure the loss of the bottom/middle. I'll keep you guys posted.

Regards,
Gordon

[Sam Green Racing]

Who's doing the work Gordon ?

Sam.

[squirley]

Sounds lovley...
Not to highjack your thread, but I picked up a 70 H1 a couple months back for the next project.  Any helpful advice on where to go with it would be great.  It is not running but has some decent parts on it like chambers (wirges or dencos...I can't tell).  All in all it's a real mess, and I am new to two strokes...quite the combo

[DarkRider]

Kawasaki Triples worldwide would be a great place to start squirley.

[RRRToolSolutions]

Squirley - by all means keep it stock or where it can be returned. Do not cut/hack anything from it. Seriously, you could easily have a $12-15,000 bike there. They will continue to go up in value, so any/all expenses for stock parts can be justified. I love my Hondas - I promise I do, but the old triples are among the best collectors items to play with because at the end of the day - you can get your time and money back.

The 1969/1970 were the quickest production vehicles you could buy  - I have the ads to prove it

Seriously, 12.69 @110 mph with 1 mile - straight out of the crate in 1969. The funny thing is the article talks about the lottery - the test lottery where names were picked from the hat as to who "had to" ride it. I have tons of books, magazine articles, and 11 Kawasakis - they are my favorite.

Come join the triples group. Just don't expect it to be as civil as this board. Along with the knowledge, there are some who'd eat their young.

www.kawasakitriplesworldwide.com

Regards,
Gordon

Here is mine about two years ago before I restored it earlier this year.

[squirley]

Thanks for the info, but this one may be too far gone already to take it back to stock, the PO was a real hacker.  I haven't even taken a look at it and won't until my current project is done.
I am a member over at the triples sight, but the damn thing won't ever let me sign in or post, although my name shows up on the registered list.  I will probably head in the racer path as it already has a lester front end and clipons.  Anyhow, can't wait for more pics and progress on your bike, keep it coming.

[RRRToolSolutions]

Sam, I'm writing the checks and doing the wrenching only. The real work was done on the CNC lathe where a limited run of these blocks were specially made for 5 race motors. These are made to the builder's specs from CNC blocks and were $850 for a set of 3. I've bought these and all of the other components over the last few weeks and will take the top end apart this winter when the builder has time in his shop. The builder, LRE (Darren Abrhams) of Laurens Race Engines in New York and is the same builder that did the engine 38 miles ago in 2006. There he will actually use a Bridgeport mill to remove the exact square from the intake face of each cylinder. These will be permanently grafted onto my ported cylinders and house those huge sled carbon-fiber reeds shown. He will also add boot ports and finger ports to the pistons - these allow even more air/fuel to the crankcase during the intake timing.
I've shown a photo of my restored 1975 H2C's engine for illustration. I will not be showing any photos of the insides of the Green bike's porting as a promise to Darren made 2.5 years ago when he did the build. He's worked hard and spent a lot of time and money getting the world's record and he ask each customer not to let his internal work be seen. I'll definitely give plenty photos of the progress, assembly, and finished work.

Here is what we have so far -

1st photo - is of a stock 750 engine showing the famous intake brow - that is designed to keep the piston rings from poking out and snagging on the wide port.You'll note the CNC reed blocks have this same shape - those will but up to the port in the graft, then be ported to match. All of the intake is done "under" the piston on a 2 stroke.

2nd photo - is the CNC batch of only 15 that mine came from - here you see the significant size and depth.

3rd photo - shows the Force 3 carbon fiber reeds - these each have 12 petals and double the surface area of the stock, metal fiberglass Boyensen reeds you see in the same photo. I will be using the Force 3's of course. Those run about $350 a set of 3.

4th photo - just shows the entire CNC block, cf reeds and airfoil, the stock reeds (not being used, but were cheap back-ups on eBay), and the card flange mounts with their oil-injection tubes at the top.

He has done several of these big-reed kits with great results. He tried to get me to do this install when he originally did the engine, but I thought I wanted 'old school" piston porting. I way under-estimated what a 2 stroke can be made to do and my fortitude to handle even part of that.

Regards, Gordon

[bill440cars]

        Whoa Gordon! That is so impressive that I can't find the words to say how much. I've always known that a 2 stroke could make some pretty interesting power, but I had NO IDEA just what kind of power. As you said, the Kawa Triples (500 and 750) were pretty bad when produced, but with some serious work, Whoa!   I was pretty impressed when (years ago) my Dad took an old (early 50's) 250cc Jawa (one of the Original Slow poke bikes) and built one that would put down CL72 Hondas and run on the tail end of Triumph 500s with no problem. Then I see this! I just HAVE to know more.

                                   Take care Gordon, Bill

[DarkRider]

Theres a member on the Triples board that does porting work to all the triples including the S bikes. There is potential in all of them scary enough..

[bill440cars]

          Man, that bike is truly AWESOME, Gordon.


           

[Sam Green Racing]

Sam, I'm writing the checks and doing the wrenching only. The real work was done on the CNC lathe where a limited run of these blocks were specially made for 5 race motors. These are made to the builder's specs from CNC blocks and were $850 for a set of 3. I've bought these and all of the other components over the last few weeks and will take the top end apart this winter when the builder has time in his shop. The builder, LRE (Darren Abrhams) of Laurens Race Engines in New York and is the same builder that did the engine 38 miles ago in 2006. There he will actually use a Bridgeport mill to remove the exact square from the intake face of each cylinder. These will be permanently grafted onto my ported cylinders and house those huge sled carbon-fiber reeds shown. He will also add boot ports and finger ports to the pistons - these allow even more air/fuel to the crankcase during the intake timing.
I've shown a photo of my restored 1975 H2C's engine for illustration. I will not be showing any photos of the insides of the Green bike's porting as a promise to Darren made 2.5 years ago when he did the build. He's worked hard and spent a lot of time and money getting the world's record and he ask each customer not to let his internal work be seen. I'll definitely give plenty photos of the progress, assembly, and finished work.

Here is what we have so far -

1st photo - is of a stock 750 engine showing the famous intake brow - that is designed to keep the piston rings from poking out and snagging on the wide port.You'll note the CNC reed blocks have this same shape - those will but up to the port in the graft, then be ported to match. All of the intake is done "under" the piston on a 2 stroke.

2nd photo - is the CNC batch of only 15 that mine came from - here you see the significant size and depth.

3rd photo - shows the Force 3 carbon fiber reeds - these each have 12 petals and double the surface area of the stock, metal fiberglass Boyensen reeds you see in the same photo. I will be using the Force 3's of course. Those run about $350 a set of 3.

4th photo - just shows the entire CNC block, cf reeds and airfoil, the stock reeds (not being used, but were cheap back-ups on eBay), and the card flange mounts with their oil-injection tubes at the top.

He has done several of these big-reed kits with great results. He tried to get me to do this install when he originally did the engine, but I thought I wanted 'old school" piston porting. I way under-estimated what a 2 stroke can be made to do and my fortitude to handle even part of that.

Regards, Gordon

Nice Gordon, It'll be intresting to see how it smooths the delivery.

Sam.

[Sporkfly]

I really like the pipes. How much did you have to pay for those beasts?

[RRRToolSolutions]

About $2,500 invested in the pipes and a 14 month wait on builder to work me in. These are the last set he built, he retired shortly after these were finished. His work included the head flange, head pipes and bellies only. These were not taken out of a carton and bolted-on. I had to come up with the mounting system, then weld those onto the pipes and figure out how to mount the silencers. At the end, I had them polished and chromed. These silencers are the TZ750 models from TZ Mike's. Here is a little photo history -

Regards,
Gordon