Topic: Helmets, Again!

[medic09]

 

I know...I know...

I came across this in the Journal of Emergency Medical Services.

"Recently, University of Pittsburgh epidemiologist Kristen Mertz, MD, and neurological surgeon Harold Weiss, MD, looked at what happened after Pennsylvania repealed its helmet laws in 2003 and reported their findings in the June issue of American Journal of Public Health.

In the two years after the repeal, helmet use in Pennsylvania declined from 82% to 58%, motorcycle head-injury deaths increased by 66%, motorcycle-related head injury hospitalizations rose by 78%, and acute care for such head injuries soared by 132%."

[heffay]

strong numbers.   

[Operator]

I still say let the adults choose!

I've crashed and a helmet likely saved a few brain cells so I CHOOSE to wear a helmet, however, I think we should all have that choice.

[azuredesign]

Numbers don't lie to often.
I also believe each to their own.
At this point, if I crash I'm going to be a mess helmet or not. I wear a full face so that I don't have to feel bugs and acorns, the sound when they hit the helmet is bad enough. Additionally, my singing sounds better!

[heffay]

i find it humorous that all the hot young lasses tend to not want a helmet because of the helmet hair factor.

anyone ever had long hair?  you know how moronic the idea is then... getting a comb through after a helmet-less jaunt is nearly impossible!
also nearly impossible if you're missing half your head.  

[nickjtc]

i find it humorous that all the hot young lasses tend to not want a helmet because of the helmet hair factor.

Speaking personally I started wearing a helmet as soon as I started riding....and at that time helmets were not mandatory in the UK. I did have the de rigeur early '70s hairdo, but my rationality was the flip side of worrying about helmet hair. I hated arriving at work straggly because it was raining or with the inevitable wildlife that was picked up en route. The decision to wear a helmet saved my life, but I've told you that story before.

"No brains - no helmet". It's a Darwin thing.

[SD750F]

medic09,

Thanks for the numbers. Makes perfect sense to me. I live in a helmet free state for all riders 18 years old or older. And I don't like it but the lobby group ABATE is strong. But I know I have a choice and always wear a helmet. But my choice has cause some members to think I am crazy and have told me so. I wear a half helmet in the city driving the city street speeds so I can hear and see better. Then I wear the modular everywhere else to provide full protection from wind and bugs and anything else that might jump up.

Scott

[heffay]

i had a rock about the size of a quarter come up and hit me square on the left fist while i was riding once.  even thru thick gloves, i had to stop and pull over as i couldn't concentrate on anything but the pain.
if that had hit me in the face i guarantee i woulda been out cold. 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Medic,

2 things: We need to choose our own destiny and helmets Will save lives if we wear them. I probably would've been snuffed out in 2002 when I got taken out head on by that van IF I hadn't had on my full face. Between the head on hit and landing on my head after I bounced off the hood and broke the windshield I was lucky. I would have at least broken my jaw. Too bad my other broken bones weren't protected. 

You didn't state what the increase in rider miles were during that 2 year period however. That would lower the number somewhat but it would still be an increase.

[medic09]

Truth is, Jerry, I don't think they controlled for changes in rider miles.  Could've been up or down; don't know.  Either way, the numbers are consistent in their internal relation to each other, that is decrease of helmet use for increase in the other stats.

[gregk]

i ride with a helmet by choice.  But take road rules a step further and see what happens if all day running lights and seat belts are manditory.   It is quite a shock to go from an area that has manditory day time running lights to an area that doesn't.  Your first thought is " where the hell did that car come from".  Keep in mind that legislators are thinking about other things than our safety, like insurance costs and health care. 

[Caaveman82]

I say let idiots ride without helmets so they can maintain their cool image. Have everyone with a motorcycle license sign a waiver saying if you get in an accident without a helmet on and you have an injury that could have been protected with a helmet no tax dollars will be used to keep you alive and if you die your hospital bills will be passed on to your next of kin no questions asked. We need more organ donars in the world any way..

[dusterdude]

in that time,how much did motorcycle registrations increase or decrease?the bad thing about statistics,they can always be skewed to anyones side of things.

[ColinMc]

I visit my girlfriend in CT fairly often, crossing the border to that state always freaks me out when people don't have helmets on. I'll never forget being behind a guy on his sportbike with a girl on the bike. We come up to a stoplight, he puts his foot down, slips they both go down. Both heads hit the pavement. I could HEAR their heads hit with my windows up from behind them. Lots of blood, one of them twitching the other not making any other movement. They weren't even MOVING and neither one lived. That sound will forever be in my memory, not to mention the image. I've always worn a full face, and always will. Not just because of that, but that whole thing still makes me shudder.

I've been down a few times and if I wasn't wearing a full face I wouldn't have a face right now...so all in all, not wearing a helmet is not an option for me.

Dusterdude: Good point, but I don't think the number of riders increased THAT much over that period of time. I'm sure there was a surge, but I can't imagine that much.

[medic09]

Duster, I don't think fluctuations in the number of riders would change the basic analysis of the relationships between the data sets.  Whatever the number of riders, they contribute to the entire set of data.

Jerry's question, if anything, could influence the analysis if the change were really significant.  That is because he asked about rider miles.  If certain riders (helmetted or helmetless) rode significantly more or fewer miles in a given time, that might skew the data interpretation somewhat.  The same percentage would be wearing helmets or not; but the exposure to risk as expressed in miles ridden would nonetheless vary.  As it is, I doubt that either of these questions effects the analysis by much.

[bunghole]

I just made the switch from half to full face.  I normally ride a Harley and I suppose it is a bit out of the ordinary for a Harley rider to wear a full-face, but I'm sort of weird anyway.

I looked at modulars, but noticed that none were Snell rated and then I looked at the latches that keep the chin bar down and they looked like they were just plastic.  I was worried that they wouldn't hold up in a crash.

I love the feeling of riding without a helmet, but I feel it is just too risky and its illegal in CA anyway.

[eldar]

Well depending on how the study was done, the number of riders COULD affect the findings. Say that they did the study half-assed. Maybe they did it in such a way as to shock people to get the laws back in the books. Say it was done like this; X number of accidents and the number head injury deaths in X year. Now repeal law and x number of head injury deaths in X year BUT lets not factor the OVERALL number of motorcyclists on the road increase.

So say that 10000 riders were on the road in 2003. In 2005, say the number went up to 15000. No matter what, there are going to be more accidents just cause of the added people but if they only add in the accidents and do not set a percentage ratio, the numbers are skewed.
This would make it look bad and thus want to get the law in place again and save the insurance companies money. It is all bout saving money first and lives second with insurance companies.

Regardless, I wear a helmet as I know chances are better with one than without.

Bungy, some modulars stink but some are really good. As for the snell rating, it is over-rated. It is not worth the extra price you pay. Unless of course you are insuring large orange balls of metal!

[gregk]

Way back when i was going to University, the math proftold the class " that there are lies and bigger lies and then there are statistics"
He later commented that you can do anything with numbers, which he would proceed to show us.

[rugger81]

Way back when i was going to University, the math proftold the class " that there are lies and bigger lies and then there are statistics"
He later commented that you can do anything with numbers, which he would proceed to show us.

After taking a stats class or two in college, I know this is true, but this can easily be dispelled by looking at the raw source data and findings.  After looking up a few articles:
http://www.physorg.com/news132510465.html
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/06/12/head.injuries.increase.after.motorcycle.helmet.law.repeal

It seems that they looked at hospitalizations per 10,000 registrations and separated them by head and non head injuries to determine whether a helmet would have helped.

I could link to the actual study, but you have to pay to view it unfortunately.

[Shenanigans]

I live in a non helmet state and say let them not wear a helmet (disregarding the whole insurance/choice debate)

However I do cringe when I see a girl on the back without a helmet  But come on, is it THAT hard to figure out that a helmet will save your head? I think Darwin would agree.

Better yet are the people with the 500 dollar motorcycle jackets with out helmets... And then theres the few times I have had people tell me that helmets are MORE dangerous than not wearing one 

[heffay]

i can understand the want to ride free, live hard, grind w/ the pavement every now and again... but what i don't understand... if the helmet is dangling from the bike, why didn't you just put it on your friggin head instead of looking like an idiot that takes his helmet everywhere yet does not wear it.   

[BobbyR]

From a bicycle accident I found out a long time ago, the pavement is harder than your head. That is all I need to know.

[333]

My issue is I don't want to pay for an uninsured rider's hospitalization.   I like Caavemans idea, but it probably wouldn't work.

On the other hand, I ride without a helmet every chance I get.  And for me, that means a parade.  I haven't done it since before 9-11, but I like to ride Rolling Thunder here in D.C. helmetless.

[Rocking-M]

From a bicycle accident I found out a long time ago, the pavement is harder than your head. That is all I need to know.

yep what Bobby said and I had on a helmet then, still busted my forehead and needed stitches.

BTW, when I get my camera back I'll post pictures of the recent helmet I was wearing with the deer incident.

[Operator]

I agree with JohnMiller's comment... I wear a helmet simply because the laws of physics will not allow me to "magically float" away from a motorcycle that has been gripped by gravity and bad muju.

That said, if we progress to the point of continued forced safety measures we will find ourselves out cruising in a nice comfy suit of ballistic bubble wrap.

In reality many accident's involving helmetless riders result in a ride in a big black station wagon rather than an ambulance

How many of the PRO HELMET  folks out there would be happy to be told they were REQUIRED to wear a full face rather than their comfy Sunday afternoon half helmet???