Topic: …any engineers out there? Thinking about career change…

[Lumbee]

Well, I think I’m at a fork in the road…or maybe a mid-life crisis.  I’m 36 years old and have been working in IT/Software Dev the last 10 years.  My wife just finished up her Phd this past spring and accepted a professorship at UNC-Asheville this fall.  Shes there now, and I’ve been looking for a job there for the past 6 months with no luck.  To complicate matters I’ve been pretty unfulfilled in my current career the last few years.  I don’t hate it…but most days I’m counting the seconds until I can get out of the office and do what I want (most of the time that’s getting in the shop).  But IT pays well, and the environment is great…its just…well, boring.  That begs the question what purpose does a job serve?  Is it something that gives you the means to do what you want.  Or is it something that should be fulfilling and you should want to get up in the morning and do.

Back to my predicament.  My undergrad is in PE/Biology (w/teaching certificate)…never did that, turned my hobby (computers) into my job my senior year in college, and never looked back.  Got a masters in Information Science (watered down CS degree) which beefed up my resume, and its served me well.  My salary has been 50-65K since then, depending on the job and bonuses/stock options.  So I’ve been looking for work in Asheville the last 6 months and haven’t found anything, so I started asking myself, well, if you were to go back to school, what would it be for.  It would have to be a program, degree that I’d be interested in enough to sustain my interstet for the time it would take to get through the program.  Mba?  No, as I said, I’m bored with the business environment.  Law school?…the idea of wearing a suit to work everyday doesn’t excite me in the least.  Engineer?  When I look at the curriculum and classes, I’m thinking OK, I could see learning this stuff.  Its something I’ve only found an interest in the last 4 years.  Before age 30 I had never done anything more mechanical than change the oil in my car.  Then I got the idea I wanted to build a chopper.  Started looking into what it would take to do that (welding..some machine work) and figured heck, I can take night classes at the local tech school for what it will cost me to pay someone to do it.  So that’s what I did.  I took one semester of welding (stick/mig/tig) and have been taking machining classes (adv lathe and mill) the last 3 years.   I love this stuff, so whats the next logical step.  UNC-Asheville has an ME degree.  No kids and the wife says she will support me if that’s what I want.  Money is not really an issue…we can make it off the wifes salary…though we would not be putting away anything for retirement.

I have a lot of doubts.  The most immediate being my abilty to get through the classes.  Math is not one of my strong points.  OK, the truth is I stink at it.  This flies in the face of being an engineer, so how do I reconcile the two?  We’r talking 3 levels of calculus.  I think given enough time I can learn anything.  What would take the average math student an hour to learn,  it would take me 3, but if that’s the case, then I'm willing to do it.   Easier said than done.  The other concern is how satisfied I’ll be once the journey is over and I’m doing the job.  I could see myself right back where I am now 10 years from now.  I’ve been an engineer for 5 years and I’m bored with it.  But I’m thinking I’ll cross that path when I get to it.  Sometimes it’s the journey not the destination

OK, that’s it, just need to vent.  Any and all comments welcome. If you’re an engineer out there working, let me know how you like your job.  If you would recommend it...or any other advice.

[Rocking-M]

Hey Mark, I don't watch tv much but if you've see the show "Toughest Jobs"  most everyone on there, even those
who fail, have gone on to different jobs after the experience. Find something you really like and go for it.

[mmtsquid]

I'm currently pursuing my bachelors in ME, and please allow me to de-mystify the math stuff.........
If it's been a while, start over.
Take college algebra, then trig. (or some Pre-cal - either way will get you there.......)
Cal. I - the first two weeks are a little tough, but it works like this.  Your instructor will torture you a bit, then show you a shortcut for derivitaves that makes life VERY EASY.  The class can be challenging, but not undoable.  (I am not a mathlete either - I was a b/c student in high school).
Cal. II - no way to sugarcoat it, this class is tough.  Grading will depend on the teacher, but if you get a c, don't freak - this is as hard as it gets.
Cal. III - EASY.  Really, it is.  I can't explain it, but you will feel like you've taken two steps backward in difficulty.
Modern graphing calculators help a great deal, and teachers gradually let you use them more and more. Once you've proven your ability to do the more problematic integrals by hand, they generally let you use the calculator.
Don't sweat it - if you're wired to understand all of the IT stuff you currently do, you'll be fine.

[Lumbee]

Rock...I hear...road less traveled and all...

MMT, good to hear that..I am absolutely gonna start from scratch on the math.  The local tech school offers pre-algerbra if  want to go back that far.  I had college algerbra, so I'll probably start with that...then have pre-cal, and geometry...I'd do those before I did Cal I.

[gerhed]

--I had a lot of trouble with differential equations.
--But you'd expect that-- wouldn't you ?

[bluecap24]

I have an AS in ME and truthfully it is a very high burn out rate.  I am 30 and enjoy most of what I do, but I often ask myself if the stress and pressure is worth it.  I am currently the lead engineer at an equipment manufacturer and today's markets are tough.  We are constantly being beat up over deadlines.  I really enjoy the 3d modeling and seeing the final build, but most of the time the road there is full of traps and pot holes.

Not trying to scare you off or anything, but I am kinda in the same boat thinking about a career change.

Jim

[mmtsquid]

The most important thing I can relay is to take trig, and MEMORIZE all the different trig identities.
You really need to make an A in that class, and then retain it.
If not, cal. II is miserable.

[rbmgf7]

don't think that persuing a degree in a mechanical engineering will help your ability to build a chopper, at least in the manufacturing sense. you could persue an M.E. degree with an emphasis on machining and manufacturing. you'll get crash courses on machining and welding but nothing to make you qualified. the emphasis will focus more on industrial manufacturing: rolling, casting, machining, forging, welding, etc.

as a regular M.E., you'll focus more on: machine dynamics/design, heat transfer, thermodynamis, fluid mechanics, instrumentation, circuits, mechanics of materials, list goes on. Basically, a lot of math, especially differential equations. If you can master DiffEQ, you'll master the mathematical modeling of engineering. You'll also get introduced into 3D modeling (CAD) but don't find yourself building complex structures by the end of the course. best bet to get better at CAD is find an intern position where they'll just have you do that stuff for months.

the great thing about being an M.E. is you are very diverse in your curriculum. you'll take classes in electrical, computer, metallurgical, and civil.

when i first became an M.E., I really didn't know what I was getting into. halfway through I even concidered changing majors. reluctantly i decided to stay. it's a great major to keep yourself open to many positions. i go to missouri S&T (some know it as Univ. of MO-Rolla or MO school of mines) and every semester the school hosts a career fair. this semester's fair was this past tuesday where over 300 companies came to recruit for co-ops to full-time for all majors. i think there's over a 95% success rate in hirings. most likely as an M.E., especially with experience, you'll get into a field where you'll find it more exciting than what you're doing now.

[Lumbee]

don't think that persuing a degree in a mechanical engineering will help your ability to build a chopper

...no, I don't have any allusions about that...thats just part of the path that has led me to where I am now...

[tsflstb]

Don't be intimidated by it.  The engineering degree is a lot of mental gymnastics that at just proves you have the ability to learn.  It is time consuming and sucked when my liberal arts friends were out raising hell and I had to study Laplace transforms.  Ninety percent of it will never apply to a future job, but the fact that you can learn it and pass a class is important to employers.  At a more mature place in life you can probably handle the workload fine. 

Mechanical engineering is the most general and in my opinion the best bet.  Thermodynamics makes the world go round.  It helps to stay grounded in reality while you drift off into the theories also.  I spent my spare time in school machining parts for homopolar generators, rail guns, advanced composite flywheels and all kinds of crap.  I'm now working on updating 60 year old natural gas with modern technologies.  They're the size of my house, but the same laws apply to them as my CB400F.

If you're doubting your math skills, take some community college courses to get ready for the engineering curricula.***


***Disclaimer***This career advice comes from a guy drinking stale Busch Light and watching Thunderdome in Spanish.  You should be encouraged that someone like me got a degree from an accredited university though.

[andyman]

Asheville NC... hmmm... why would anyone want to live there ;-)

I'm a controls engineer in the Asheville area.  Jobs in my field are hard to find here, but I've managed to stay employed continuously for the past few years.  Know anything about PLCs?  We're in need of programmers in a bad way.

[Lumbee]

Asheville NC... hmmm... why would anyone want to live there ;-)

I'm a controls engineer in the Asheville area.  Jobs in my field are hard to find here, but I've managed to stay employed continuously for the past few years.  Know anything about PLCs?  We're in need of programmers in a bad way.

...nope, no PLC sklillz here.  And just for the record I'm from Robeson County (SE NC)...I'm more acclimated to the swamp, not the mountains...

[SD750F]

Asheville NC... hmmm... why would anyone want to live there ;-)

I'm a controls engineer in the Asheville area.  Jobs in my field are hard to find here, but I've managed to stay employed continuously for the past few years.  Know anything about PLCs?  We're in need of programmers in a bad way.

I have always thought PLC's were fairly easy to program. It is the set-up and flow chart were most engineers make their mistakes. Not enough documentation and research invested before the hacking began.

Last industrial control I designed including the entire machinery was for an automated stub tube (heat exchange manifold) cutter. Used rolled tube stock and cut, prepped and flanged if required to any length programmed to 0.005". Produced a tube one every 300 milliseconds or so depending on the length. This was for a company owned by Cummings called Bear Heat Transfer. That was a little side job I had for a short time when I first moved back to South Dakota from San Diego, CA were I was an engineer working on nuclear PGNAA analyzers.

Scott

[gregk]

Lumbee

Don't worry about the math.  Just spend some time at it and you'll do al right.  I wasn't the greatest student in Highschool and somehow managed to get an Engineering Degree.
You have already been exposed to "higher learning" so you no doubt know how to work the system to you advantage.
Someone has already noted that the engineering degree is just to prove you can learn.  The real learning starts on the job. 
One prof said that the university is just a sausage factory, he jams the knowledge in and the students spew it out come exam time. 
On the practical side, i use basic trig and geometry every day.  I have never had to integrate anything since uni.
My experience as an engineer so far, and I'm on the retirement side of my career, is that you will make a comfortable living.

Good luck.

Greg

[bggann]

Well now - I'm an engineer x3 (BS, MS, Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering), and with due respect to my ME freinds here - including my roomates in college oh those years ago - I think EE is the most versatile.  But frankly it is close).  But it was relatively 'easy' for me - because I've always been kind of a tinkerer/fixer/doer.

It shounds like - though recently discovered -you have some of the same.

When I was in College (graduate school), there was a surge of engineering students who were getting into it because it was "a good career", not because they were really a natural.  As I tutored/taught, I could always tell the natural engineers from the career seeking ones after just a few moments.  They had the ability to look at something - and think - gee, that's how it works.  And they were NOT always the ones with the best math or science skills.  Some struggled with it and fought it, but you never really doubted they were engineers.  Others - maybe the math was easy - but you knew that person was going to end up a manager or something (not that a manager is bad - but a manager that is also an good engineer is rare, and vise versa.) 

For me it was Electromagnetic Field Theory - 'bout flunked that class as a Jr.  And the prof for that class was my masters advisor - so he made me teach it.  Turns out I got pretty good at it after a few years.

So - my advice - if you are a tinkerer - who figures things out (and if you have an old SOHC4, your probably are), give it a good go!

Engineering is about problem solving - no matter what the problem.  Math is just one of the tools you may use - get help and you will do fine. 

If you stare at a broken item - and have no clue where to go - then it may not be the career for you.

Just my opinion - and it is worth what you paid for it.

Bob

[SD750F]

When I was in College (graduate school), there was a surge of engineering students who were getting into it because it was "a good career", not because they were really a natural.  As I tutored/taught, I could always tell the natural engineers from the career seeking ones after just a few moments.  They had the ability to look at something - and think - gee, that's how it works.  And they were NOT always the ones with the best math or science skills.  Some struggled with it and fought it, but you never really doubted they were engineers.  Others - maybe the math was easy - but you knew that person was going to end up a manager or something (not that a manager is bad - but a manager that is also an good engineer is rare, and vise versa.) 

And my experience are those who did not have the problem solving skills typically became sales engineers, field application engineers, or even worst, jump right into engineering management!!!

Scott

[Honda_Nut]

I'm no longer an engineer by trade, but I do carry a BIE (as some call Imaginary Engineering). My perspective on the career path is this: You start out in high demand and make good starting money. If you really kick ass, you bump up about 30% in just a couple of years. At this point, you are put under a huge pressure of unreasonable cost savings or design deadlines because all the non-technical co-workers/bosses don't really understand the "witchcraft" you do, they begin to think your miracles are instantaneous. About this same time, they recognize you are being paid more than most of the flunkies you work with and put you on a schedule of 3-4% raises (assuming your company makes money). You start getting bored/frustrated with ever growing expectations and ever shrinking deadlines.

At this point, you will start to consider becoming and engineering manager or sales engineer where you will either have to put up with dumbass subordinates or travel all the time.

Now don't get me wrong. Some people like the plain engineering. Some like the management and some like the sales. I actually envy those that find lasting satisfaction in engineering jobs. This just wasn't the case for me. I've been self-employed now for about seven years.

In summary, if you go into engineering and you're good, expect to hit your ceiling in about 3-4 years. If you want to keep developing beyond this, you will have to change your daily tasks toward management or sales. Or you can go on to further education and continue engineering at the next level.

[tsflstb]

They created a major called "engineering route to business" at UT because of the high rate that changed majors anyway once engineering physics hit.  Lots of guys are good at math, but like bggann said some have a hard time applying that to the physical world.

I'm a controls engineer in the Asheville area.  Jobs in my field are hard to find here, but I've managed to stay employed continuously for the past few years.  Know anything about PLCs?  We're in need of programmers in a bad way.

I'm happily employed, but man you've got great roads up there.  You need Allen Bradley guys?  I spent a few years commissioning gas compressor installations with PLC5's, Control Logix, Wonderware HMI's.

[Lumbee]

...thanx for all the replies fellas.  Right now my plan is to take college algebra/trig this spring, then PreCal in the summer.  If all goes well with that, I'll start the program next Fall.  I take machining class at night at the local tech school.  My machining instructor is a crusty old fart.  His advice was...the only thing you truly have in this life is your time...what you do with it is up to you.  But heres the thing...you don't know how much of it you have.  I thought those were wise words.  Life is to short to be on a career path I'm bored with...

[tramp]

degree's degree's degree's
you don't need a degree to build things(choppers)
i am a retired prototype mechanic
i weld,solder,sheetmetal work,electronics,mockup and sweep up my own mess at the end of the day
most of the engineers i knew had a lot of book smarts and no mechanical sense at all
commonn question" why can't you weld steel to aluminum"?
if you want to build things and you have common sense take some vocational training
like welding and machine shop and a electronics class
try to find out how things work
believe me there are jobs out there for a good all around mechanic
if a piece of paper means alot to you go get the degree
if you want to build things learn how they work, no degree can do that

[Sam Green Racing]

...thanx for all the replies fellas.  Right now my plan is to take college algebra/trig this spring, then PreCal in the summer.  If all goes well with that, I'll start the program next Fall.  I take machining class at night at the local tech school.  My machining instructor is a crusty old fart.  His advice was...the only thing you truly have in this life is your time...what you do with it is up to you.  But heres the thing...you don't know how much of it you have.  I thought those were wise words.  Life is to short to be on a career path I'm bored with...

Mark, if it all works out for you, and I certainly hope it dose, when you move to Asheville, look up Paul (Uncle Ernie) now there's a guy of wise words.

Sam.

[Lumbee]

...hey guys, just thought I'd update this thread.  Made the move to NC over Thanxgiving and am getting settled in.  Neighbor next door doesn't like motorcycles, so I think we'll be moving again pretty soon.  My wifes aunt has a house for rent with a killer basement that will be my shop!   

On the career front I just finished registering for classes for the spring.  Taking pre-cal algebra and few other humanities.  Squeezed a CNC lathe/mill class in for fun.  I plan to take pre cal trig in the summer, then actually start the engineering program next fall.

[cb(r)]

...hey guys, just thought I'd update this thread.  Made the move to NC over Thanxgiving and am getting settled in.  Neighbor next door doesn't like motorcycles, so I think we'll be moving again pretty soon.  My wifes aunt has a house for rent with a killer basement that will be my shop!   

On the career front I just finished registering for classes for the spring.  Taking pre-cal algebra and few other humanities.  Squeezed a CNC lathe/mill class in for fun.  I plan to take pre cal trig in the summer, then actually start the engineering program next fall.

Lumbee,

I am 39 married and stepdaughter.  I am back in school too.  I have been for almost two years now.  With transfer credits  I have about 7 classes until I graduate with bachelors in Industrial Technology.  (mixed between man. eng., industrial eng. and operational management)  I has been tough because I work full time and school full time even summers. My wife is in school full time work part time.  I hate my schedule now,, but I will look back after it is over in a few years and say how the hell did I do that.  Also, at this point I do not think I want to do what my degree is geared for after I graduate but I am not stopping now.  when the diploma is in my hand I will reasses.g

I can not relate with the math stuff because I started out in '88 as a math major old school no graph calculators all pencil and paper.  that part is pretty easy for me just long and tedious.  If you don't stress over it to much then  it wont be as hard.  besided sometimes the older you get the better you understand. You might have to work harder...
listen to what MMt squids said about calc.

later
 good luck!  Hope you find a neighbor who like bikes!