Topic: Product Alert: Hiflo oil filter defect! (Edited 9/29/08)

[HondaMan]

I went to change my oil today, and try one of these (new to me) "Hiflo HF401" oil filters. They are made in Thailand, marketed by HIFLOFILTRO-EUROPE, London and USA.

There's a defect. The center filter grommet ID is LARGER than the oil bypass bolt onto which they must seal. I measured their grommet at 20.15mm, where the bolt is 20.00mm, and the EMGO and Honda filters I have measure 19.50mm and 19.48mm (i.e., they seal by 0.5mm). The Hiflo unit will let unfiltered oil bypass the filter, quite a bit of it when the oil is hot (especially if 10w40 weight is used).

I sent the following letter to their website contact address: I'll let everyone here know if they bother to respond:

"Dear Hiflo: I recently purchased 2 filters, #HF401, for my 1972 CB750K2 Honda. I discovered a flaw in your product that you should know: the center grommet in these filters is too big, and will not seal against the pressure relief bolt in these engines. The bolt is 20.00mm diameter, and your filter's grommet is 20.15mm inside diameter. This will allow a significant amount of unfiltered oil to bypass the filter enroute to the engine. For reference, I checked against the EMGO and Genuine Honda filters I also have here, and found their center grommets to be 19.50mm and 19.48mm, respectively. This would yield a proper 0.5mm seal on the center bolt, where yours will not. For your reference, I am an Engineer, with 30+ years of engine and machinery experience. I do not know if this is an unusual error for you, as this is my first encounter with Hiflo products. I hope you will fix it: until then, I will carry my calipers when visiting my local supplier, to check this hole size, before purchasing another. Thank you for your attention."

...it will be interesting to see if they say anything at all. Until then, if you have these filters, steal the old grommets from a good filter and replace the ones on the Hiflo, like I did. My last filter was an EMGO, and the grommets fit and seal fine.

-------EDIT 9/29/08------
I got a very concerned response from Hiflo today! They are stopping production of the filters until they can modify the mold to make the right seals. Here's their response:

Dear Mark,

I agree with your measurements, as do our drawings of HF401.

A new rubber mould was purchased in November 2007, and I am disappointed that the error was not detected.

I have instructed our factory to cease production on HF401 with immediate effect, until such time as the grommet mould has been modified to provide a 19.50mm centre.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention, and I would be grateful if you supply me with your postal address, to enable me to send you some examples of the corrected HF401 when available.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,

Jim Irwin
Bike Alert Plc
Axion House, 1 Silver Road
Lewisham, London SE13 7BQ
T: +44 (0) 208 297 7970
F: +44 (0) 208 297 7992
e-mail: jim.irwin@bikealert.com
http://www.bikealert.com


...sounds like a truly responsible vendor to me!

[754]

That is not so good..

 I am not seeing a huge benefit to a spin on. Here is what I run, fliter can with fins turned off ..ala sandcast. Stock bolt with socket welded on, do it right, lasts forever..

 Now, I like to examine what is in the housing + run my oil over cardboard to see what is coming with it....so I cant see a spin-on saving me that much time.. just my opinion being expressed..

 Also, I am not seeing an abundant supply of filters actually designed for bike use.

[toycollector10]

Thanks Hondaman, I've been using the Hiflo filters. I bought my last filter from a Honda dealer and he gave me a correct Honda part. There was nothing between the Hiflo and the Original Honda part as regards price. I've got two or three Hiflo's in the shed, I'll just biff them out I think, just to be safe.

[HondaMan]

I have often used the EMGO filters, as they have extra pleats (even more than the last 2 Honda filters I bought), which means lower restriction, generally, and longer life. I generaly stick to short change intervals (until this summer, when I'm trying out the Mobil1 15x50 diesel oil, great so far!) of about 1000 miles, filter every 2nd change. Even so, there's always a detectable improvement in engine quietness after the filter change.

754: FRAM has taken up these bike filters, and I used one once: it was fine. Those ought to be available everywhere. I'm always watching for new brands, just to make sure I have a source! The SOHC4 filter is also used by Kawasaki and Suzuki, so that should help us all.

Why did you turn off the fins on the filter housing? 

[754]

To make it look like an old one & to be a bit different.

Also, my motor has a shaved valve cover, ran slim steel clamps on pipes (when I had spigots)..it just fit with the cleaner smoother look.. Plus you get less crud un the filter lip when re & re'ing.

I sort of get almost the look of the spinon, but with the ability to look at my oil without cutting open the canister.

To run an oil cooler, does the adaptor go outside the spin adaptor, or between it and the case?

[CB750F2]

Mark, it so happens that I have recently purchased a pair of the HF401 oil filters from the local Honda dealer and found exactly what you have found. i will be taking them back to Honda tomorrow and will report the defect to them and ask them to advise their supplier. I will endeavour to have them replaced with genuine Honda filters - with a cash adjustment of course. I also found as you probably have that the large "O" ring has a thickness of 4mm instead of the required 4.5mm. It is so important to check everything - particularly after market stuff. The bypass valve also concerns me. How does one know that it is not bypassing oil. Pat

[HondaMan]

To make it look like an old one & to be a bit different.

Also, my motor has a shaved valve cover, ran slim steel clamps on pipes (when I had spigots)..it just fit with the cleaner smoother look.. Plus you get less crud un the filter lip when re & re'ing.

I sort of get almost the look of the spinon, but with the ability to look at my oil without cutting open the canister.

To run an oil cooler, does the adaptor go outside the spin adaptor, or between it and the case?

Yeah, it would be easier to keep it clean!

The coolers go between the filter housing and the crankcase, divert the oil to the cooler, then back to the filter. "Back then", we used to just get Ford power steering coolers (they are U-shaped tube-and-fin radiators, very small), then cut the return hose from the oil scavenge pump, and reroute it to the cooler pipe with a couple of clamps on both sides to reduce leaks. Then, the fins would get located on the right side (in most cases) where the air exited the fairings, by the kickstarter shaft (no kick lever, so there was room). It was a very effective cooler, lowered the tank temperature to where it seldom got hot to the touch. I had no temperature device to measure the tank, but they went from being 'way too hot to touch to being just warm, with this $5 (then) junkyard fix. Modern power steering systems don't have these coolers, too bad for us... 

[HondaMan]

Mark, it so happens that I have recently purchased a pair of the HF401 oil filters from the local Honda dealer and found exactly what you have found. i will be taking them back to Honda tomorrow and will report the defect to them and ask them to advise their supplier. I will endeavour to have them replaced with genuine Honda filters - with a cash adjustment of course. I also found as you probably have that the large "O" ring has a thickness of 4mm instead of the required 4.5mm. It is so important to check everything - particularly after market stuff. The bypass valve also concerns me. How does one know that it is not bypassing oil. Pat

The oil bolt is the bypass valve, and you can see the sliding movement in the dirt marks on the inner plug, if it is moving to bypass oil. Normally, it may move about 2-3mm when the engine is cold (and young), and full stroke is about 7mm for a plugged oil filter. Mine has low oil flow, and the dirt is very clearly undisturbed in those holes. Soos sent me a new pump (8k miles), and I'm really a slouch for not having installed it this year. 

[CB750F2]

Thanks Mark. I returned the Hi Flo Filters today to Honda and swapped them for genuine ones. The fit on the genuine ones is as it should be - nice and snug. The Hi Flo rubber bushes were even loose in the filter end shields. I paid $9.90AU for the Hiflo elements, and the cash adjustment for the Honda elements was $12.00AU. That should give you an idea of what we have to pay for automotive parts here in Australia. I bet Terry is having a chuckle to himself. Pat
P.S. I also advise HI Flo o fthe problem - as you did.

[cb750k7]

Murphy's law,

Just bought 4 (FOUR!!!)  HiFlo 401.....

Measured one HiFlo and one Emgo. (Pic attached)

Now I am a Little bit confused.  Both measures are very similar and are close to 20mm.  Do I have an old batch?  Is it safe?


TNX

Jona

[CB750F2]

Jona, I would run the filter bolt through the filter, There should be no clearance between the filter bolt and the rubber bushes. The Honda ones that I bought today fit nice and firm around the bolt and even when the bolt is removed the rubber bushes are nice and snug in the filter end shields. You do not want any clearance between the filter bolt and teh the bushes otherwise oil will pass through bypassing the filter. Pat

[cb750k7]

Thanks.

Will check clearance next oil change.

Meantime,  sent an Email to HiFlo for their advise.

Cheers,

Jona

[HondaMan]

Murphy's law,

Just bought 4 (FOUR!!!)  HiFlo 401.....

Measured one HiFlo and one Emgo. (Pic attached)

Now I am a Little bit confused.  Both measures are very similar and are close to 20mm.  Do I have an old batch?  Is it safe?


TNX

Jona

Jona;
The letter I just got back suggests they recently changed their rubber mold, and this new mold has the error.
Install those grommets into the filter before measuring, as it is the seated ID dimension you wish to measure. Or, try sliding the assembly onto the filter, like CB750F2 says, to make sure if it is snug on that big bolt. It must be, to seal.

[cb750k7]

Thanks Mark.

--------- EDIT  ----------

Got a reply to my mail:


Hello Jona,

Thank you for your e-mail.

If it suits you, I`ll keep a note of your contact details, and let you
know when I`m in a position to supply you with replacements.

Best Regards,

Jim Irwin
Bike Alert Plc
Axion House, 1 Silver Road
Lewisham, London SE13 7BQ
T: +44 (0) 208 297 7970
F: +44 (0) 208 297 7992
e-mail: jim.irwin@bikealert.com
http://www.bikealert.com

[mystic_1]

Nice to see a vendor respond so positively to an issue like this.  They scored a few points with their response in my book.

mystic_1

[WFO]

Nice to see a vendor respond so positively to an issue like this.  They scored a few points with their response in my book.

mystic_1

I was really interested to see if they would respond that is kinda positive but iam kinda glad i bought 4 emgos off ebay a couple weeks ago.

[mark]

...... "Back then", we used to just get Ford power steering coolers (they are U-shaped tube-and-fin radiators, very small), ...... this $5 (then) junkyard fix. Modern power steering systems don't have these coolers, too bad for us... 

I just did a bunch of front-end work on a '96 Explorer. Not only is the p/s cooler still there, but it's a lot nicer part than those '70s bits. (actually looks like the ones that the aftermarket Harley part folks charge real bucks for-minus the chrome)



As for the thread topic.....

One rubber seal is pressed against the engine case. The spring and washer are mashing the other side - my washer has developed sort of a cup shape over the years... anyhow, once the rubbers are mashed against the case, washer, bolt... I just plain don't see a big gap there

[HondaMan]

...... "Back then", we used to just get Ford power steering coolers (they are U-shaped tube-and-fin radiators, very small), ...... this $5 (then) junkyard fix. Modern power steering systems don't have these coolers, too bad for us... 

I just did a bunch of front-end work on a '96 Explorer. Not only is the p/s cooler still there, but it's a lot nicer part than those '70s bits. (actually looks like the ones that the aftermarket Harley part folks charge real bucks for-minus the chrome)



As for the thread topic.....

One rubber seal is pressed against the engine case. The spring and washer are mashing the other side - my washer has developed sort of a cup shape over the years... anyhow, once the rubbers are mashed against the case, washer, bolt... I just plain don't see a big gap there

It's the loose fit against the ID of the filter hole that's the problem. The spring pressure on the filter grommets is not enough to prevent their lifting off those surfaces under 60 PSI oil pressure, and they will leak as a result. Even a small opening, like .010", will leak a lot under this kind of pressure.

[cb750k7]

Hi all,

Today I have received 8 new O-Rings in a letter from Jim Irwin (Bike Alert UK)

Now,  that is service!!!

Cheers to Jim.

Jona.

[HondaMan]

Yep, he's sending me some, too!
They get my vote. 

[Hush]

I've only just seen these oil filters appear in NZ, am using one in my partners Suzuki GSX400L and it seemed exactly same as the eight year old one that came out.
Hopefully they only fluffed the big 4 filter.

[Whaleman]

I know this an old topic, but I just opened a K&N Engineering KN401 filter and the same oversized grommets were in it. I sent them some samples of the oversized grommets and will see if they respond. Dan

[HondaMan]

I know this an old topic, but I just opened a K&N Engineering KN401 filter and the same oversized grommets were in it. I sent them some samples of the oversized grommets and will see if they respond. Dan

Thanks for the heads-up, Dan!