Author Topic: another, much more technical guitar question  (Read 2508 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

fuzzybutt

  • Guest
another, much more technical guitar question
« on: October 20, 2008, 05:21:42 PM »
does anyone know what kind of finish guitar makers use? i have a dean vendetta xm and i'd like to do a nice dark cherry red finish on it. this is a 99 buck guitar, new, so i've decided to do some experimenting on it. i have a compressor and a couple of good paint guns too so a nice finish wont be a problem as long as i know what to use

Offline martino1972

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,227
  • and still a expert welder,period...
Marti, I want you to know, I like you an awful lot, but guys have said far less and left wearing their drinks on their shirts.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=36933.0  (my bobber)

Offline alltherightpills

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,330
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 06:59:45 PM »
Are you doing solid color paint or a translucent stain?  You will want an HVLP sprayer to do the painting.  It is basically the same as painting a car, in fact, I would probably go get the paint and clear coat from an auto paint supply store.

Assuming you are painting it:
As with any and all painting, prep work is 75% of the whole job.  You will want to take the neck off, all of the electronics out, bridge off, etc. 
Sand the existing finish with 100 grit, then 200 grit, then 400 grit to get the surface ready for paint.
Tack cloth it.
You want a couple coats of color (after it is primed, of course)
After the color, you will want to do multiple coats of clear, sanding in between coats.  On your last couple of coats you will want to wetsand with like 1200 grit paper. 

If you are staining it, then you just made the project a lot more involved:
If the guitar is currently a solid color, you will want to sand down to bare wood (and before you go through the trouble of doing this, remember that there is a reason why that particular guitar has a solid color paint job.  In other words, don't expect to find a flame maple top lurking under the paint ;) )
If the guitar has a translucent stain on it, you will need to sand the finish off, and then sand the wood down deep enough that you get past where the stain soaked in.
Sand it nice and smooth (200 or 250 grit)
Tack cloth it
Follow the instructions on the can of stain (which you could get at Sherwin-Williams or any other paint store) 
Finish the same way you would if you were painting it. 

One thing you should note is that the more coats of paint and clear you put on, the more it affects the tone of the instrument.  That is why really fancy guitars are stained and then shellacked or lacquered with the fewest number of coats possible.  Not like you are that concerned about the tone of a 100 dollar Dean.  Good luck and show us before and after pics.
78 550K
77 550K (in pieces)
71 500K0 (in pieces)

Offline martino1972

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,227
  • and still a expert welder,period...
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 07:06:23 PM »
what he said....... :D
Marti, I want you to know, I like you an awful lot, but guys have said far less and left wearing their drinks on their shirts.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=36933.0  (my bobber)

fuzzybutt

  • Guest
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 07:13:46 PM »
well, i have a good bit of lacquer left over from painting my bike. plenty of clear too.

Offline 333

  • Time for change
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,558
  • Mail List Member #162 - Call me Stan
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 08:23:55 PM »
I would agree with Pills except for the last paragraph.  If it were an acoustic or hollow body, the number of coats would affect the tone, but not so much on a solid body.  I'm not saying it won't make a difference, just not as much.

The other thing I would point out is that a particular stain will look different on different woods.  A softer wood will absorb more stain and be darker than a harder wood.  So, finding out what wood the guitar is made of will be a good start.
Go metric, every inch of the way!

CB350F0  "Scrouching Tiger"
CT70K0    "Sneezing Poodle"

www.alexandriaseaport.org

fuzzybutt

  • Guest
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 11:13:17 PM »
i'm looking at using an original fender color,  surf green, theres a place called Guitar Re Ranch and supply. i'll do the sealer, primer, color and clear. it looks like it's going to be a long process due to the long dry times, but i believe it will be worth it. since i've not painted wood before i'm going to practice on a scrap piece of alder i have here before tearing into a guitar. this is the color below. the site for the paint is http://reranch.august.net/index.html i just purchased a set of gibson pickups from a buddys sg after he went to some high buck dimarzios. the pickups i got are the chrome humbuckers. the pickups i pull out of this guitar i'll save for my next project guitar.




[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 11:14:58 PM by fuzzybutt »

Offline martino1972

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,227
  • and still a expert welder,period...
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 11:17:56 PM »
would be interesting if you make a building thread with your guitar fuzz.......
the gibson pickups fit in the body or do you have to make a space for them??/
oh,and a video of you playing it!!!!!!!!!!
Marti, I want you to know, I like you an awful lot, but guys have said far less and left wearing their drinks on their shirts.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=36933.0  (my bobber)

Offline 333

  • Time for change
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,558
  • Mail List Member #162 - Call me Stan
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 07:03:02 AM »
+1 on the build thread.  We've had build threads on boats, why not guitars?

Sorry for what might look like a hijack, but it's related.

Some of you might remember that I was in Nashville in July and had rambled about "The Gibson Showcase", a guitar store at the Opryland Mall that was also a shop where they build and repair acoustic guitars, banjos, and mandolins.  Well, I'm going back!  I had missed the shop when I was there before, as the shop closes at 3:30 PM.  And not that I'm a country music fan, but I'm also getting to go to the CMA show.

So, Fuzzy, did you ever find a mandolin?
Go metric, every inch of the way!

CB350F0  "Scrouching Tiger"
CT70K0    "Sneezing Poodle"

www.alexandriaseaport.org

Offline tramp

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,142
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 12:05:48 PM »
definetly want befor and after pics
1974 750k

fuzzybutt

  • Guest
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2008, 03:04:56 PM »
no mandolin yet. i've found some nice ones but i'm on a budget and i'm trying not to spend more than 100 dollars for one. i will do a build thread on this when i get it started. yes the gibson pickups will fit right in.

Offline dustyc

  • I don't know why anyone would call me an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,141
  • 1977 CB750K
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 03:34:15 PM »
Fuzzy,
I have a love of vintage stuff.  If it's not decidedly modern,(dean vendetta hmm -could reshape the headstock and make it less modern looking) I'd go for a nitrocellulose finish.  It cracks and crazes nice as it ages and has a less plasticky feel than modern finishes.  It's also really forgiving as far as touch ups go. 

55 years old





44 years old





5 or 6 years that I did.  An old Silvertone that someone started stripping, then I got it and finished the strip and sprayed.

1977 CB750

fuzzybutt

  • Guest
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 05:24:17 PM »
well folks i just got ANOTHER guitar today, i couldnt turn it down for the money. it's a metalflake blue danelectro hodad with a bigsby type tremolo on it.............for 100 bucks. damn i need to get the batteries for my camera charged to take multiple pics of my new toys

fuzzybutt

  • Guest
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 05:28:46 PM »
this is a stock pic from the danlectro site the guy in the video is playing the same exact one i just got





Offline martino1972

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,227
  • and still a expert welder,period...
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 10:15:32 PM »
now you will have to get the same hair cut..... ;D ;D
Marti, I want you to know, I like you an awful lot, but guys have said far less and left wearing their drinks on their shirts.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=36933.0  (my bobber)

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2008, 10:40:06 PM »
now you will have to get the same hair cut..... ;D ;D

But, you'll have to dye your hair plaid to match the kilt.



 ;D
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline azuredesign

  • Knupping pin
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,705
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2008, 05:11:04 AM »



this is a stock pic from the danlectro site the guy in the video is playing the same exact one i just got

Excellent pluck!
I picked up a Dan 6 string baritone several years ago for short dough, it's great for playing tick tac lines, although there's no adjustable truss rod. I just slack the strings some when I'm not using it.

Offline azuredesign

  • Knupping pin
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,705
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2008, 05:18:24 AM »
Fuzzy,
I have a love of vintage stuff.  If it's not decidedly modern,(dean vendetta hmm -could reshape the headstock and make it less modern looking) I'd go for a nitrocellulose finish.  It cracks and crazes nice as it ages and has a less plasticky feel than modern finishes.  It's also really forgiving as far as touch ups go.

Boy, the Silvertone looks great. Is that a sunburst EB-2 bass? I have one of those around as well. Changed out so many pick ups, bridges, and tail pieces 30 years ago, that one day I just routed in a hunk of maple and recut it for the pick ups that are in it to this day. While I hate to say it, the strings are not much newer!

Offline dustyc

  • I don't know why anyone would call me an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,141
  • 1977 CB750K
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2008, 11:22:47 AM »
Boy, the Silvertone looks great. Is that a sunburst EB-2 bass? I have one of those around as well. Changed out so many pick ups, bridges, and tail pieces 30 years ago, that one day I just routed in a hunk of maple and recut it for the pick ups that are in it to this day. While I hate to say it, the strings are not much newer!


Yep, it's a EB-2. The acoustic is a LG-3.  Thanks for the compliment on the Silvertone.  The red stain bled onto the binding before I got it.  That's what I'm most bummed about, but I still like it.  I just have to commit to what pickups I want.  I think some P-90's since it's hollow.  I think humbuckers would be too hot and I'd end up with a feedback machine.  And how I want to wire it up.  It's got 6 holes for controls, so I'm thinking something creative there.
1977 CB750

Offline azuredesign

  • Knupping pin
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,705
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2008, 12:04:46 PM »
I'm also a big fan of p-90s and don't really mind the p-100's. Was it cut for three p/us originally? You could wire 2 volume and tone pots with a couple of switches for combinations of pickups in and out of phase. Perhaps with the magnet in the middle p/u reversed to get humbucking combinations as needed. P-90s tend to be noisy, but the 100s are much quieter, although not as lively sounding to me.

Or if it's just two p/us, with the extra two holes perhaps you can find some inspiration in 60's Gretsches or Jazzmasters!

Offline dustyc

  • I don't know why anyone would call me an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,141
  • 1977 CB750K
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2008, 12:20:20 PM »
Yeah 3 pickups.  I'm not planning on 3 volume 3 tone.  It also has a hole by the cutaway for 3 switches.  It would have looked alot like this




The flame is pretty amazing, so it seemed a shame to hide it under another sunburst and I've always liked the black/blonde combo, so I tinted the lacquer with just a touch of amber.  I've also always like the Paul Bigsby Guitars, so I put a Fender neck on it to push it in that direction.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 12:21:52 PM by dustyc »
1977 CB750

Offline azuredesign

  • Knupping pin
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,705
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2008, 01:55:46 PM »
Ah,
I fondly remember coveting that model in the Sears catalog when I was a kid. I found this site: http://harmony.demont.net/guitars/H77/219.htm
Adding the yellow to the toner is my preference as well. I purchased an es -335 off ebay a few years ago and it is similarly finished.
I'd be interested in buying those D'Armond p/u's if you have them. They're underwound and cool for a warm neck p/u tone.
I've also really liked the Bigsby guitars for a long time. Pretty cool that P.B. helped design the Crocker too!
Is the Fender neck the same scale length as the Silvertone? Although I don't remember, I seem to think the Silver tone had a shorter scale length. I guess that's not an issue, as the bridge can be positioned anywhere. Post a photo when you finish it, will you?

Offline dustyc

  • I don't know why anyone would call me an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,141
  • 1977 CB750K
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2008, 03:02:26 PM »
Ah,
I fondly remember coveting that model in the Sears catalog when I was a kid. I found this site: http://harmony.demont.net/guitars/H77/219.htm
Adding the yellow to the toner is my preference as well. I purchased an es -335 off ebay a few years ago and it is similarly finished.
I'd be interested in buying those D'Armond p/u's if you have them. They're underwound and cool for a warm neck p/u tone.
I've also really liked the Bigsby guitars for a long time. Pretty cool that P.B. helped design the Crocker too!
Is the Fender neck the same scale length as the Silvertone? Although I don't remember, I seem to think the Silver tone had a shorter scale length. I guess that's not an issue, as the bridge can be positioned anywhere. Post a photo when you finish it, will you?

Unfortunately, it didn't come with the pickups.  It's been a while since I compared the necks.  I think it's a different scale, but like you said, I can move the bridge and I checked it all out once upon a time and everything worked out and didn't look odd.  The Fender neck is alot wider at the body, so rather than rout the body, I took off what was needed from the back of the neck.  It hasn't been at the top of my list to get done, but I'll definitely post a pic when I'm done.




1977 CB750

fuzzybutt

  • Guest
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2008, 06:36:54 PM »
okay, i picked up the hodad this afternoon.............this is without a doubt the best sounding guitar i've ever played, every but as good as the mosrite ventures model i had back in the 80's. i am truly in love with guitar.

Offline 333

  • Time for change
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,558
  • Mail List Member #162 - Call me Stan
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2008, 04:48:34 PM »
I'm bumping this because I found this website that has a bunch of guitar stuff including dyes and...  Just lots.  At least for a tool catalog.  Here it is:

http://www.grizzly.com/
And the catalog:

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2008/Main/004

The guitar stuff starts on page 388.

They even have a mandolin kit!
Go metric, every inch of the way!

CB350F0  "Scrouching Tiger"
CT70K0    "Sneezing Poodle"

www.alexandriaseaport.org

fuzzybutt

  • Guest
Re: another, much more technical guitar question
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2008, 06:08:30 PM »
THAT is a badass catalog! thanks for the url