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Author Topic: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)  (Read 61063 times)

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Offline Big Jay

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Re: PISTONS
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2008, 10:14:41 PM »
Going to do 10:1. Don't thing anyone would want higher than that.

Jay
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Offline 754

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Re: PISTONS
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2008, 10:33:17 PM »
Is not 10.5 what most kits were in the old days?

I was thinking if I could get 12:1, that I would modify to about 11:1, seeing as I never had any  problems even with regular gas..

Jay, any idea of pricing on these units?

Also, did APE ever make the main bearing studs for the CB 750 engines.. would like to run a set of them..
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Offline MRieck

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Re: PISTONS
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2008, 04:49:49 AM »
Quote from: 754 on October 29, 2008, 10:33:17 PM
Is not 10.5 what most kits were in the old days?

I was thinking if I could get 12:1, that I would modify to about 11:1, seeing as I never had any  problems even with regular gas..

Jay, any idea of pricing on these units?

Also, did APE ever make the main bearing studs for the CB 750 engines.. would like to run a set of them..
Dynoman sells main bearing studs. I believe Jay makes them for him.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: PISTONS
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2008, 05:05:56 AM »
Quote from: Big Jay on October 29, 2008, 10:14:41 PM
Going to do 10:1. Don't thing anyone would want higher than that.

Jay
I think that is a good number. By the time you get done decking and milling you'll add 1/2 point.
 
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2008, 07:50:35 AM »
Thanks Steve ;) ;) ;)

Sam.  ;)
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Offline MRieck

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2008, 08:44:02 AM »
 OK. Who is in on a 1000cc kit? I'll be the first to say I'll take one (as long as it comes with a modern head gasket).
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Offline Leino

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2008, 09:07:48 AM »
Can this be done with machining->welding->machining->resleeving->boring the stock block or what's the story?  ;D
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Offline MCRider

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2008, 09:15:29 AM »
Quote from: Leino on October 30, 2008, 09:07:48 AM
Can this be done with machining->welding->machining->resleeving->boring the stock block or what's the story?  ;D
It is to laugh, pardon me.  ;)  All giggling aside, its a process, but one which a motivated person can accomplish. One must press out the stock sleeves, bor the alum block, press in new sleeves, bore them to the pistons. Also, I'm guesing the cyl studs will be removed (you'll want to upgrade anyway) and bore the top crankcase to accept the new sleeves.

I have run and will run again an 888cc kit. Same process except the bottom of the sleeves are tapered bypassing the boring of the crankcase. I think 888cc is the largest that this will work on.

But at 1000cc you'll need / want rods, lightened crank, maybe tranny work, so its a complete teardown to the last nth, but oh what results. About on par with a mid range modern 600cc sportbike. But we love our CBs.
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Offline Leino

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2008, 09:20:39 AM »
Quote from: MCRider1 on October 30, 2008, 09:15:29 AM
It is to laugh, pardon me.  ;)  All giggling aside, its a process, but one which a motivated person can accomplish. One must press out the stock sleeves, bor the alum block, press in new sleeves, bore them to the pistons. Also, I'm guesing the cyl studs will be removed (you'll want to upgrade anyway) and bore the top crankcase to accept the new sleeves.

I have run and will run again an 888cc kit. Same process except the bottom of the sleeves are tapered bypassing the boring of the crankcase. I think 888cc is the largest that this will work on.

But at 1000cc you'll need / want rods, lightened crank, maybe tranny work, so its a complete teardown to the last nth, but oh what results. About on par with a mid range modern 600cc sportbike. But we love our CBs.
Well... those are the facts I already knew, and I have the lightened/balanced crank, undercut transmission etc. etc. on my 836cc at the moment.
I was just curious about the cylinder block, and if this could be done with the stock block
re-sleeved etc.

Cheers,

Juha
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Offline MCRider

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2008, 09:25:19 AM »
Quote from: Leino on October 30, 2008, 09:20:39 AM
Quote from: MCRider1 on October 30, 2008, 09:15:29 AM
It is to laugh, pardon me.  ;)  All giggling aside, its a process, but one which a motivated person can accomplish. One must press out the stock sleeves, bor the alum block, press in new sleeves, bore them to the pistons. Also, I'm guesing the cyl studs will be removed (you'll want to upgrade anyway) and bore the top crankcase to accept the new sleeves.

I have run and will run again an 888cc kit. Same process except the bottom of the sleeves are tapered bypassing the boring of the crankcase. I think 888cc is the largest that this will work on.

But at 1000cc you'll need / want rods, lightened crank, maybe tranny work, so its a complete teardown to the last nth, but oh what results. About on par with a mid range modern 600cc sportbike. But we love our CBs.
Well... those are the facts I already knew, and I have the lightened/balanced crank, undercut transmission etc. etc. on my 836cc at the moment.
I was just curious about the cylinder block, and if this could be done with the stock block
re-sleeved etc.

Cheers,

Juha
Great, that's a cool motor!  And yes, you just resleeve the stock block and bore the crankcase. FYI: There is no aluminum left between 1-2 and 3-4 after the boring! But no welding or oddball machining need be done.
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Offline Artfrombama

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2008, 10:05:17 AM »
Rebalancing required with the new 1000cc pistons?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2008, 11:14:54 AM »
Quote from: Artfrombama on October 30, 2008, 10:05:17 AM
Rebalancing required with the new 1000cc pistons?
You may want to hear from a real engine builder, but my take is, the 4 cylinder crank config is "neutral" so any displacement does not "require" a rebalance. However, the crank is balanced at the factory to rather loose average specs. A stock motor would benefit from a better balance, and a bigger motor that much more in terms of smoothness. And smoothness goes to reliability etc. The psitons are balanced to each other as are the rods.

So while you're at it, take off some pounds on the crank itself and off the alternator. That weight is masking the loose tolerances on the factory balance, a cheap substitute for smoothness..  That will allow that extra displacement to really cook. And lightening would require rebalancing.

Comments?

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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2008, 12:55:25 PM »
Quote from: MRieck on October 30, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
OK. Who is in on a 1000cc kit? I'll be the first to say I'll take one (as long as it comes with a modern head gasket).

I can't let Mike out-do me so I'm in for the 1000 kit but we also need the base gasket too.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2008, 02:08:58 PM »
Quote from: Jerry Griffin aka Rxman on October 30, 2008, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: MRieck on October 30, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
OK. Who is in on a 1000cc kit? I'll be the first to say I'll take one (as long as it comes with a modern head gasket).

I can't let Mike out-do me so I'm in for the 1000 kit but we also need the base gasket too.
Jerry....I don't think I could ever out-do you. ;) ;D Yes on the base gasket....preferably in .010 thickness.
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fuzzybutt

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2008, 03:56:32 PM »
i was at Metalheads this past weekend and i know he'll be up for a 1000cc kit
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2008, 04:29:03 PM »
No one has mentioned the price yet, pistons apart, what price for the ready to go block?

Sam. ;) ;)
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2008, 07:24:41 PM »
Quote from: MRieck on October 30, 2008, 02:08:58 PM
Quote from: Jerry Griffin aka Rxman on October 30, 2008, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: MRieck on October 30, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
OK. Who is in on a 1000cc kit? I'll be the first to say I'll take one (as long as it comes with a modern head gasket).

I can't let Mike out-do me so I'm in for the 1000 kit but we also need the base gasket too.
Jerry....I don't think I could ever out-do you. ;) ;D Yes on the base gasket....preferably in .010 thickness.

I'd bet that your head will yield 2 or 3 hp more than the one you will have to build for me  ;)  :D
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Offline MRieck

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2008, 07:26:30 PM »
Quote from: Jerry Griffin aka Rxman on October 30, 2008, 07:24:41 PM
Quote from: MRieck on October 30, 2008, 02:08:58 PM
Quote from: Jerry Griffin aka Rxman on October 30, 2008, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: MRieck on October 30, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
OK. Who is in on a 1000cc kit? I'll be the first to say I'll take one (as long as it comes with a modern head gasket).

I can't let Mike out-do me so I'm in for the 1000 kit but we also need the base gasket too.
Jerry....I don't think I could ever out-do you. ;) ;D Yes on the base gasket....preferably in .010 thickness.

I'd bet that your head will yield 2 or 3 hp more than the one you will have to build for me  ;)  :D
The gauntlet has been thrown.....you are on bro!
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Offline MRieck

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2008, 07:31:27 PM »
OK.....2 sets of 1000cc. Who else is in?
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Offline 754

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2008, 08:07:10 PM »
Need price.. and shipping costs...
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Offline MRieck

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2008, 08:16:49 PM »
Quote from: 754 on October 30, 2008, 08:07:10 PM
Need price.. and shipping costs...
I understand that. I wonder......could something else be worked out. ;) ;)
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Offline Big Jay

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2008, 09:21:30 PM »
I will get the tentative pricing worked out and posted.

As for rebalancing the crank, not necessary. Inline four cylinder cranks are "self canceling", so as long as the components all weigh the same, it doesn't effect the balance..

Jay

P.S. Thanks to whoever got the sticky done.
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2008, 09:49:23 PM »
Twas I that pushed it but, we can talk big discounts at a later date,  :D :D :D hope your contingency pay outs apply to bracket racers as well

Sam ;)
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Offline mec

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2008, 01:52:18 AM »
hi,

I did my experience with 1000ccm pistons (rc eng) in the late 70ies.
I remember there had been issues with oilleakage using the stock cyl-block.
boring the block, there will be huge "windows" between 1/2 and 3/4 and the sleeves become visible. those days I sealed these holes with "devcon". that solved the proble. however, there had been other "invisible" oilleakages round the sleeves cause of the very thin cylinder wall (during riding my boots took a hot oil bath :))

curious how will you solve these problems?

mec
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Offline KB02

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Re: PISTONS (970cc? 1000cc?)
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2008, 05:19:30 AM »
Quote from: MRieck on October 30, 2008, 07:31:27 PM
OK.....2 sets of 1000cc. Who else is in?

Mike, you are like a kid in a candy store.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'd love one, but I've gt to get my 850 together and ridable before I can even think about another engine.

...

...

okay, that's not true... I've been thinking, I just can't do anything about it yet.  :-[ ;)
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