Author Topic: The Ever-Popular CB650 bad charging 'issue', formerly hot start 'issue'  (Read 77462 times)

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Offline speedy gonzalais

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2008, 11:18:33 AM »
yes i mean the ground wire left hand side coil.
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Offline Hush

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2008, 01:01:06 PM »
Ah that's the strange wee bright green wire with the copper/brass loop soldered onto it.
I made sure to anchor that on a good earth when I redid my wiringloom.
Could well be your problem Kits, hope it is this simple......Hush.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2009, 06:11:25 PM »
I'm revisiting this because on my ride today, my bike left me sitting again, and though I'm glad it did this during riding practice in the parking lot instead of on the road after having snuffed the engine... it's still not a good thing. >:(
Basically she would manage one good crankover, but just not quite enough to start, then another slow rrr...rrrr....rrr.  repeat, repeat.  I let her sit and cool down and think about how selfish she was being, tried again after fifteen minutes and got the same deal.  At the end, the first decent crank somehow caught and she started running again, just enough to pull us up the incline into the garage, then she got her butt parked and the battery tender thrown on.

Regarding that little green ground wire on the left hand coil... the PO had attached it to the frame where the coil bolts on, so it goes:  Frame, Coil, newly cleaned and polished green wire attachment, bolt.

...is that going to be a proper ground for it? otherwise, where else should I bolt it to?  My honda service manual doesn't even mention it.

The starter cranks hard and fast when it's cold... sounds almost like a car's starter, it cranks so fast.  I'm wondering if there's something else in the system that might be the culprit.  Hush, how did you go about rebuilding your starter solenoid, and do you think that would help?
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2009, 12:22:09 AM »
We need to now what the battery voltage is when it won't start, or turns over slowly.  Bring a meter with you while riding until you get this sorted.

When the starter went bad on my 700S, I thought I was stranded.  No Kick starter.  On a lark I thought I'd try bump starting it.  I put it in one of the top gears pulled in the clutch, turned on the key switch, "walked" the bike forward while sitting on it to get some momentum, then let the clutch lever out using the rear wheel to turn the engine over.  Started immediately.  I learned that it only took about shuffle 4 steps to get enough momentum.  When it starts, just pull in the clutch, select the proper gear and off you go.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2009, 08:56:30 AM »
considering the brightness of all lights onboard, I'm going to guess the voltage was okay, but I'm going to be playing arund with my clutch again today (lots of run time below 3k rpms) which will likely let me repeat this scenario.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline Hush

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2009, 11:16:25 AM »
Funny TT should mention this about bump starting his bike because that is the very reason I took my solenoid apart and cleaned the feet on the posts (PM to you Kit on method as asked).
After my wee clean-up the bike has given me no troubles in starting so guess it was just 30 years of electrical shorts blackening the feet of the copper posts
Afterall thats all a solenoid is, a big fat piece of metal throwen at the two posts by the low voltage wires and connecting the battery to the starter motor. ;D
I'm hoping its that simple for you Kit, if not as TT said you may be getting intimate with your tester again. ;)

P.S. something many new riders don't get told about is how to bump start their bikes, we were always told to put bike in 2nd gear, pull in clutch, scoot forward and when we had enough pace on drop the clutch.
My bike fires up real easy doing it this way, a blessing as we are cursed with no kickstarter.
If you can fire your bike up with a bump start Kit then I just about guarantee its the solenoid holding you back from a clean start.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 11:20:41 AM by Hush »
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2009, 05:41:59 PM »
Quote from: Pinhead
re's a step-by-step that I went through to fix my alternator problems.

1. Measure field coil (rotor) resistance. If below 4 ohms or above 10 ohms, replace the rotor and start over.

2. Verify that the brushes contact the rotor.

3. Start the bike and connect battery voltage directly to the field coil leads.

4. Test voltage.
--If battery voltage rises as the engine revs up, your field coil, stator, and rectifier are all likely to be good. Regulator or wiring likely at fault. Continue to #5.
--If battery voltage stays steady or drops, either the rectifier or stator is bad. Skip to #6

5. Reconnect all leads and verify that the regulator has both a ground reference and a positive voltage reference.
--If not ground reference or positive voltage reference is missing, check wires and then start over.
--If ground and battery voltage is present, replace the regulator and then start over.

6. Switch your volt meter to AC volts. Check for voltage between all 3 yellow stator wires with the harness disconnected (ignition on, engine running).
--If you get 13 or more volts (I've seen up to 50v) across all 3 wires, your stator is good. Replace rectifier and start over.
--If you don't get at least 13 or more volts across all three wires, your stator (or wiring between the stator and the rectifier) is bad. Check wiring; replace stator and start over if the wiring isn't at fault.

7. Disconnect the stator harness. With the ignition off, verify resistance between all 3 yellow wires from the stator (check your manual for correct resistance readings.
--If your resistance readings are out of range, replace the stator and start over.
--If your resistance readings are correct, you've effectively checked everything that I can think of, and there has to be a wiring fault. Wink
8. By now you should have an idea what is wrong.

I'm revisiting this because though my bike tested out ok before, it's still having starter issues so I used the abovementioned Pinhead quote to try to fiddle around.  I had a damn good fiddle with my starter solenoid, but I decided I'd still do a good thorough hot-start test before the b!tch conks on me again in an intersection in public.

here're my results:
Rotor/field coil resistance: 4.3 ohms
brushes do contact the rotor.
Battery power when started, fresh off the starter: 12.9v
Bike started, warmed up and idling, (idles for crap when cold) 13.6v
Bike at a sustained 4k rpms 14.7v

Then I took her for a little ride around, down through the parking lot around 4-5k rpms in first, paused here and there for a few minutes playing with my clutch and getting that all smoothed out, then more back and forth, until she felt appreciably hot.
Went back to the garage and she conveniently conked right where I was going to park.
I had X test the battery voltage.  11.5v.
Held the start button for a couple seconds and after a couple attempts, she fired up.
idle reading: 11.6v
cranked to 4k-5k rpms, 12.5-12.6

Should I now start worrying about my stator or rotor being bad?  I completely forgot about testing the yellow wires that go to the stator (kinda forgot how, too) because we're heading out tonight (doesn't happen often) but I'm open to suggestions.  I really want this 'issue' solved.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
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Offline Hush

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2009, 07:10:48 PM »
You don't say what your present "hot starting" issues are Kit?
Have you considered that maybe its not electrical and could be carb/gas caused?
I found the choke on my Custom was not connected correctly and that was causing all sorts of trouble especially hard starts when hot.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2009, 09:31:56 PM »
There is little doubt that your "hot Start issues are battery voltage (battery depletion) related.

The rev up shows that your alternator does charge the battery.  I think you need to find the rpm needed to change from battery depleting to battery charging.  The change from  11.7v to 12.6v shows that it can charge the battery.  If you held that high RPM long enough, the battery voltage would rise to full, eventually.  Seems clear your alternator isn't making enough juice at low RPM to both supply the bike electrical and the change the battery.  I'd determine the charge/supply, drain threshold to determine if that is reasonable and go from there.

Do you have any electrical add-ons, or "upgrades" like a brighter headlight?  Have you verified all there phase of the alt are producing?  Do all diodes in the rectifier test good?

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2009, 10:20:33 PM »
I don't know how you'd define a 'brighter' headlight, I switched from the stock '80 headlight to a halogen but the '81s on came with halogen stock and the only difference was the headlight lens/reflector setup.  No other upgrades installed, and I keep the headlight on 'low' all the time anyway. 

if I remember right, the R/R seemed to test out okay before but i'll test it again now that I feel like I know what I'm doing more. 

Should I be concerned that the rotor had 4.3 ohms resistance, or that it charged 14.7v worth when cool, but only 12.6v max when hot?
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline TwoTired

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2009, 12:29:49 AM »
I don't know how you'd define a 'brighter' headlight,
By the wattage rating of the bulb compare to what was delivered stock from Honda.  I don't know what the 650 came with stock, but, it if was a 40/55W and you replaced it with a 60/90W, then your new bulb draws more power than what was intended even on the "low beam" setting.
According to :
http://cosky1.tripod.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://cosky1.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/page16-01.jpg&target=tlx_new
...your alternator should deliver 6.5A at idle and 18A at 5000 RPM.
The 550 draws about 10 Amps with the lights on, and your 650 should be in this same ballpark (unless your new headlight bulb uses more power than stock).  This means your battery discharges at idle and must be revved to make the the alternator put out more power than is being absorbed by the bike, in order to charge the battery.  If your electrical usage is higher than stock, then the alternator will have to spin faster to get output above what the bike is absorbing.

if I remember right, the R/R seemed to test out okay before but i'll test it again now that I feel like I know what I'm doing more. 
The R/R has two functions and two sections built in to it.  The regulator section and the Rectifier section can be checked individually.

Should I be concerned that the rotor had 4.3 ohms resistance, or that it charged 14.7v worth when cool, but only 12.6v max when hot?

I don't believe heat has anything to do with it.  It is a matter of run time, instead, related to battery draining while in operation.
However, that resistance seems slightly low, and may be a problem source.  But, I don't know what the standard resistance is for the rotor of the 650.  The 550's weaker alternator has a 4.9 ohm field coil, and the stronger 750 has a 6.8 ohm field coil.

The lower the resistance, the more power the alternator absorbs to make generation possible.  Also, if the resistance is lower than it should be, it means some of the windings are shorting, and it is not making a strong magnetic field that the stator relies on to make full output power.

The Honda shop manual I found Here:
http://cosky0.tripod.com/
...does not state what the rotor resistance is supposed to be.

Has anyone found a rotor resistance specification?

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Hush

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2009, 03:12:53 AM »
3000rpm is when you start charging Kit, according to my info.
Jezz I sure hope I don't encounter your charging troubles, my old 650 seems to be unaffected even when I load her up with flashing lights and sirens, even has extra indicators so drags heaps off the battery I guess.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2009, 11:01:40 AM »
ha. if you did you'd be so screwed, hush. ;)

TT, Pinhead stated awhile back that rotor resistance should be from 4-10 ohms.  mine's on the bottom end of that.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=25212.msg259272#msg259272
that thread says 6-7 ohms. 
I'm also wondering if the rotor should look 'wet' the way it does.  In between the metal plates, there's an amber-colored substance that feels/looks like dry varnish, but it's got bubbles in it, looks like its run quite a bit.  Not sure what it is if it's not insulation for the windings.



I'm talking between the triangular metal bits in the pic above... actually the whole thing looks like it was dipped in said varnish, but the copper rings are clear where the brushes contact. I'd cleaned that before, and it improved the charging but not by much.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 11:04:54 AM by Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline TwoTired

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2009, 12:33:06 PM »
The wires that make up the windings in the rotor are all coated with a varnish or some insulative material, before being wrapped on to the rotor bobbin.  This coating/insulation keeps the wire conductor cores from touching each other (shorting out).  The coating material is usually translucent, but may have a color tint ranging from clear, yellow, or even brownish, depending on what was selected.  The material is put on during wire manufacture and there are many types possible.  After wrapping onto the bobbin, and in order to keep the wires in place so they won't rub against each other,  wearing off the individual wire insulation, the wrapped assembly is coated or dipped into an epoxy or varnish material that glues all the bits into a solid mass, resistant to vibration and centrifugal force effects.  Note: that's resistant, not impervious.  Heat and vibration can still take their toll, especially upon minor manufacturing defects that don't show up early in it's service life.

Picture this:  Two wires laying side by side in vibration rub along their entire length.  Two wires in vibration that cross each other have a single vibration contact area, more likely to wear through quicker than when the contact area is made along the entire length of the wires.  In the ideal world, your rotor has all the wires parallel.  But, during manufacture, some of the inner windings could be crossed.

Crossed wires that make contact through their insulation, short the electrical path through the device, reducing the amount of wire that electricity must travel through. Thereby, making the overall resistance less than when originally manufactured, so it draws more current that expected from the bike.  Compounding on that, since less of teh wire actually has current flowing into it, the magnetic field that it makes is weaker, causing the stator to develop less power for delivery into the bike and/or Battery.

This describes what CAN happen.  I don't know that it HAS happened to your rotor.  But, since I don't have a specification from Honda about what the rotor is supposed have in the way of resistance, I can only determine if the alternator has full output by measuring the output at various RPMs.  It would also be helpful to know the exact load being placed upon the system, if different from stock through "upgrades".

You could also place an ammeter in series with the alternator output (between battery and and rectifier output, and measure its delivery capacity at the RPMs I noted earlier.  The Honda Shop manual states it should deliver 6.5A at idle and be capable of 18A at 5000 RPM (when conditions warrant).

The bubbles you found on your rotor could be from dipping the rotor into viscous "varnish", or from the windings overheating and melting the coating.  If any of the coating is black or charred, that's a bad sign for rotor integrity.

Awaiting further data...





Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2009, 01:52:44 PM »
Thanks, TT.  I'm home sick right now, but maybe Mickey would want to go play mechanic today.  either way, I'll get your data when I can.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2009, 08:56:25 PM »
OK so somewhere, MickeyX posted a fault-finding diagram (I think it's on the build thread) so we followed that and here are our results, adapted from the diagram:

Bike started at 12.9.  By the time it was warmed up and running smoothly, batt. read 12.1.

Switched multimeter to DCV.  Connected the multimeter leads to batt. terminals.
Revved the engine to 2500 rpms.  Reading was 14.6v.   
Revved the engine up to 5000rpm.  Result was 14.9- 15.1v.
The diagram said either the R/R or wiring between the battery and RR through the...
*drumroll for Spike and Martino's sakes*
ignition switch.
We went at it from 'a different way'. 
We connected the red mm lead to the battery (+) and the black mmlead to the switched +12V input wire.  At idle, we got .57v.
That pointed to a bad connection from the battery (+) through the ignition switch to the switched +12V supply-input on the RR.
That says to check the whole electrical circuit.  It says "This is one of the most difficult faults to find. Suspect the ignition-switch itself, the fuse-box and its connections. The RR thinks the battery-voltage is too low while the actual voltage is either correct or too high. Disconnect all terminals and clean them with contact cleaner.  If you have fixed the problem, (HA!) return to START"

Any suggestions beyond what's actually down from the guide?
Spike and Marti, thanks for setting me straight. I just... still can't really get it through my head that the *ignition switch* of all things can cause the weird misfiring etc.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Hush

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2009, 09:59:55 PM »
Dodgy 30 year old ignition switch, could be the culprit....its a known progressive fault on our 650's.
That Custom I had would switch its self off while I was riding, a very unnerving event at speed.
Problem being, what do we replace them with?
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2009, 10:12:15 PM »
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 10:16:14 PM by Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2009, 10:20:50 PM »
sometimes I'm really happy the cb650 used all kindsa parts that were used in the 'newer' bikes. :)  (OEM part number search brought up that repair kit, which apparently also works on the GL1000)

Further, I'm not sure where these diodes are to test?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 10:23:39 PM by Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Soos

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2009, 06:36:31 AM »
There's a diode on the 650?

Is it the little black thingy that plugs into the wiring harness about 1/2 way between the coins, and the tank mount bolt?
Never did find what that is, how it works, let alone what system it affects.

...was afraid to run the bike without it to see what happened... thought it might be the fill/release hole for the majic electrical smoke.
 ;D ;D



Or are you talking about the internals of the CDI units?
Anyone that knows their zeners from their diodes wanna chime in?



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Offline leekellerking

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2009, 07:06:53 AM »

*drumroll for Spike and Martino's sakes*
ignition switch.



The ignition switch on my 1982 CB650SC went bad and would not stay "on."  I replaced it with a new ignition switch base from this guy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CB400F-CB550-CB650-CB750-CB900-CBX-GL1000-SWITCH-BASE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ35594QQihZ023QQitemZ360132752131



It allows you to keep your old key, so you don't have to have one key for the ignition and one for the gas cap.

One thing, be careful with the little plastic prongs that hold it into the body of the ignition switch.  If you bugger one, it won't want to stay in all the way.  Nothing a zip tie won't fix!   ::)
My Nighthawk is put together with wire and zip ties, burns oil, and handles like a pig.  I love it!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2009, 07:29:02 AM »
and see, it stays 'on', but doesn't seem to charge quite right... actually discharges quite quickly and I'm not sure *when* or *where* it happens but if I'm riding for more than half an hour, even at sustained RPMs, the battery is still dead at the end of the trip.  This happens even though I can test if having 14.9v+ going to the battery, so I'm pretty confused and happy to shell out $12 for an ignition switch and $10 for some good contact cleaner if it'll solve the problem.  :-\  Oh and kinda spitty, misfire kind of sounds until she's good and warm.

...but she's starting a lot better when hot.  The cleaned starter solenoid might be helping that.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 07:37:02 AM by Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
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Offline Hush

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2009, 07:42:14 AM »
You buy, we watch, we learn. ;D
Them's cheap parts Kit, bet they aint that cheap here in Godzone.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline leekellerking

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2009, 07:56:23 AM »
Have you checked out http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/, Tony Weeks' page?

Tony might have some ideas as to what you can do.  He helped me out when I was having problems with my '82 CB650SC.

The problem my bike's rotor had was not apparent at idle, or when revving up on the center stand.  It would only screw up on the road.

A rebuilt rotor from http://customrewind.com/ cost me about $120 (plus shipping of my old rotor to them for core return). 

Just a thought.

Lee

and see, it stays 'on', but doesn't seem to charge quite right... actually discharges quite quickly and I'm not sure *when* or *where* it happens but if I'm riding for more than half an hour, even at sustained RPMs, the battery is still dead at the end of the trip.  This happens even though I can test if having 14.9v+ going to the battery, so I'm pretty confused and happy to shell out $12 for an ignition switch and $10 for some good contact cleaner if it'll solve the problem.  :-\  Oh and kinda spitty, misfire kind of sounds until she's good and warm.

...but she's starting a lot better when hot.  The cleaned starter solenoid might be helping that.
My Nighthawk is put together with wire and zip ties, burns oil, and handles like a pig.  I love it!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Ever-Popular CB650 hot-start 'issue'
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2009, 08:10:22 AM »
TT, I know you're probably ready to strangle me because I tend to work laterally or diagonally instead of in straight-forward terms, but the last few days I was in school and work, so today I can get down to business.
You give directions in this thread (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=8801.msg81655#msg81655) for testing the ignition switch voltage, and I'm going to attempt that today, using my  650 diagram, obviously, to find where the 550's wiring differs.

It's a crappy day out, so I'm going to bundle up, crank up the heater in the garage, and do some serious connection cleaning, as well.  I need to head to the shop across the street and buy a nail file to mangle as a female connection cleaner 'cuz while MickeyX would 'understand' if I destroyed ours, I still doubt she'd be happy with it.  I'm going to go ahead and replace all my fuses, too, because I have no idea how old these are.  I'm pretty sure they're all the correct amperage (10A) but on replacement I'll both know for sure and reduce their contributed resistance. 

I do have a question.  As the R/R was reading 14.9-15v, it indicates the regulator isn't doing its job.  If the stator has started to 'go' as it were, and is "taking the R/R with it",  will it kill a new RR if I replace this one?  Should I keep this one until I can be very sure of the stator's status?  How do I test the stator *directly* instead of through the wiring?
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale