Author Topic: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero  (Read 23992 times)

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Offline Jim

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1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« on: November 08, 2008, 09:31:57 PM »
I've been following the forums generally for a few months and had an opportunity to rework a '73 350 a few months back. That, and the material I so frequently see here, has given me sufficient confidence to try and go a bit further; today I picked up a "72 that has been in a barn and hasn't moved for 18 years. This bike has most in tact....for some reason i think i can make it run.

 

It was cheap ($165 CDN) so i won't feel bad if things don't go well.



I've begun to strip it down. The thing is "stuck" but most else looks quite solid. It has 12,325 mi. and although the silencers are gone the 4/4 headers are very good.



The tank is a mess inside but the other body parts (other than fork ears) are excellent. Inside the fuel tank is a mess.

I don't think i can do this without some help; I'm counting on some feedback. I'm a rookie with enough experience to make me dangerous. I'm good with the basic mechanics but challenged by the (electrical) issues of ignition.

I'm hoping to keep a thread going that will at the very least get me past what it takes to get this machine running, engine operating, over the next few months. I appreciate any help.

To begin with;
The engine is stuck... I have the plugs out and oil in. I'm rocking the rear wheel while in gear to get a feel for the degree of resistance. i understand this process requires patience however i wonder a few things. What is the best product or mix to get down there and when do i give up. I'm completely comfortable with taking the engine out and apart.. Should I cut to the chase? or should I keep trying? 

J

Offline dustyc

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2008, 10:12:37 PM »
I'm not very knowledgeable about the 350s, so I don't know what some of the typical bad things might be, but it doesn't seem to be high mileage, mostly looks to be in decent shape, so my gut says keep at rocking the engine.  Search for ATF/acetone mix and see what you think of that as a penetrant. 
1977 CB750

Offline Tim in Ohio

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2008, 04:16:17 PM »
Hi Jim,
Nice score on the cheap bike.  I have recently completed a rebuild on one of these, so I will be watching and will be happy to offer my two cents when I can.  I did not have the frozen engine problem, so I will defer to those who have had experience with that to get you started.  Good luck!
Tim
1973 Honda CB350  Four

Check out my CB350F resto project...  watch a complete moron build a bike in front of your very eyes!: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=38903.0

Offline Jim

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2008, 04:25:06 PM »
Thanks Tim.
I'm in the garage now considering my options. Rocking the thing is getting me no where fast. I am guessing taking the engine out is my best option. I will go there tomorrow I think. Just thinking it over now (with the first of what will be many brew)
J

Offline hoodellyhoo

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2008, 06:43:19 PM »
Sweet! Tim finishes his 350 work and another one starts. I'll gladly help where i can, but I am far from an expert.
1972 CB350F (Back from the Dead!)- http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20822.0
1965? S65 - Coming Eventually!
1972 CB750K2 (father-son project)
1976 CB750K6- (sold) http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=96859.0
1976 CB750K6 (sold)- http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=62569.0

Offline Johnny5

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 11:33:05 AM »
Try shooting some PB Blaster into the cylinders and letting it soak for a few hours. Looks like a cool restore project.

My old 73 CB350 twin had 14,000 miles and ran awesome. Dont let the mileage scare you.
www.kerosenecycles.com
1971 CB350
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Offline Jim

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 11:36:40 AM »
J5;
Thanks, but whats that, "PB" blaster?
J

Offline Johnny5

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2008, 11:44:41 AM »
It'll free up rusted parts. Like WD-40, but works better.
www.kerosenecycles.com
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Offline Jim

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 12:57:05 PM »
Never heard of it perhaps not avalable in Canada.
-J

Offline Johnny5

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2008, 12:59:46 PM »
It's in a yellow and black can. Works great.
www.kerosenecycles.com
1971 CB350
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Offline Jim

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2008, 09:38:12 PM »
How do you guys do it !?  This is crazy, I just had to drill the heads off 4 machine screws to get at the front sprocket and the oil filter! What's that all about? 



After killing the head of that bolt some detailed consideration was required. It was obvious the engine wouldn't come out if that filter was connected so i thought long and hard (after stripping the bolt. Solution = 2 gentle vertical runs (between fins) at the washer. The heat from the mini grinder pulls oil to the cold side (the perimeter). A punch then will remove the remaining "tab" which is the outside arch of the washer ,... the punch than can be used to apply horizontal stress on the bolt.






Why doesn't the manual say that the "top" of the engine needs to be removed to prevent serious frustration and time?







If the bolt removal technology on this machine gets any more complicated i'm going to require an engineering degree to look inside the engine. i hope i have the stomach for the more of this.

Anyone able to advise easiest location to obtain 4-side cover screws and a bolt for this oil filter before i loose track of what i need to put it back together.

J

Offline markjenn

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 10:51:03 PM »
How do you guys do it !?  This is crazy, I just had to drill the heads off 4 machine screws to get at the front sprocket and the oil filter! What's that all about? 

Do you know what an impact driver is?  If not, then you've bit off way more than you can chew.

- Mark

Offline Jim

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2008, 10:56:00 PM »
I certainly do and believe me i tried, didnt work. 
J

Offline MrZxp

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2008, 12:20:05 AM »
Probably would have been better to leave that sucker in the frame with the chain connected to the rear wheel... then you could use the rear wheel to "rock" things back and forth (in gear obviously!) after you squirt a good amount of WD-40 down those spark plug holes... ;D

Since it is now out, what I did for mine was to remove the alternator cover and use a large screwdriver through the "holes" of the rotor to wiggle things back and forth.
Oh, and in my case, it was only when I removed my starter motor and the associated cogs that my "locked" engine started to move. Don't think it was locked at all, there was years of rust in the starter motor housing etc, preventing anything from moving.

Give it a few days, couple of weeks even, before resorting to tearing it down...

As for the screws, bolts etc all you can do is ensure you have quality tools to tackle them with and copious amounts of WD-40 or penetrating oil of your choice!

Cheers, Phil
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Offline Hush

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2008, 12:55:17 AM »
Hey man nice score, cheap buy and in premo ready-to-drive-you-mad condition. ;D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline KB02

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2008, 04:47:41 AM »
Anyone able to advise easiest location to obtain 4-side cover screws and a bolt for this oil filter before i loose track of what i need to put it back together.

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Offline Johnny5

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2008, 04:48:28 AM »
Hey man nice score, cheap buy and in premo ready-to-drive-you-mad condition. ;D


Hahaha, so true.


In the end, the satisfaction of getting a bike running well, the blood and tears (literary) makes it worthwhile.
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1973 CB350F
2006 Harley Springer Classic

Offline dustyc

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2008, 02:58:32 PM »
The impact driver like this is the best for these screws.  Just to be clear that you're not using a pneumatic impact wrench.


These are JIS screws, so regular phillips will slip and bugger up the heads.  Strange that I don't think the impact driver is JIS, but for some reason it works great.
1977 CB750

Offline Tim in Ohio

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2008, 04:11:16 PM »
Jim,
I found that an impact driver (the kind you whack with a hammer) did the trick for me every time.  It didn't always work immediately, but in my case when I just kept whacking every screw eventually yielded.  ;)
Hang in there.
Tim
1973 Honda CB350  Four

Check out my CB350F resto project...  watch a complete moron build a bike in front of your very eyes!: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=38903.0

Offline mattcb350f

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2008, 04:25:53 PM »
Sweet! Tim finishes his 350 work and another one starts. I'll gladly help where i can, but I am far from an expert.

Yeah, now Tim can help too  ;D.......and hoodelly, not true. yeer a 350spert...admit it  :D

And Jim that PB Blaster stuff is now available at Canadian Tire stores in Canada. Just became available this side of the border a few months ago. It's great stuff! but keep it away from sensitive parts like paint and rubber.

 Matt.
1974 CB350F,  1980 CB125S,  1981 XL80S
Non Honda's: 86 & 87 Husqvarna 400wr's

My CB350F resto: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=30467.0
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Offline Jim

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2008, 04:42:24 PM »
Thanks Dusty. I wasn't aware of the difference in the head size but that is the unit I attempted with. I think the biggest problem was that the PO has been inside there and the heads were over worn, two almost gone. Easier to get over it and cut thru sometimes...I can replace the screws easily i think. Now that i have the engine out I can see other work that leads me to think the PO made some compromises-

Tim/Matt;
I'll check CTC for that product thanks. The bolt that holds the oil filter can in place ... is that tough to get? I destroyed it. 

I have everything else put away. I'm going to bench it and tear down the engine starting asap. Will post some picks in coming days.
J

Offline Tim in Ohio

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2008, 08:41:05 PM »
Jim,
Looks like you are in luck...  that oil filter bolt can be had on eBay in a current auction for $4.00 U.S.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-OIL-FILTER-BOLT-CB350F-CB750F-CB650-NIGHTHAWK-E09_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a543Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem360105397474QQitemZ360105397474QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I hope that link works.  If not just do an ebay search for 350F oil filter bolt.   ;)
Tim
1973 Honda CB350  Four

Check out my CB350F resto project...  watch a complete moron build a bike in front of your very eyes!: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=38903.0

Offline hoodellyhoo

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2008, 10:21:57 PM »
Beware of what brand of oil filter bolt you get. I got one of the cheap ones off of ebay (possibly an emgo brand, not sure) with the correct part number and everything. It didn't fit at all. Not only was the bolt too wide to fit through the filter housing but it wouldn't even thread into the case properly. It had been so long since I bought it that I couldn't return it so I'm still getting by with the original bolt in it's buggered up glory because I don't want to get screwed again.
1972 CB350F (Back from the Dead!)- http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20822.0
1965? S65 - Coming Eventually!
1972 CB750K2 (father-son project)
1976 CB750K6- (sold) http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=96859.0
1976 CB750K6 (sold)- http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=62569.0

Offline fishman_Phil

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2008, 11:47:34 PM »
Likewise, I purchased a couple of oil filter bolts off Ebay at different times, and found during my resto of the CB350F that one of them was just not suitable as far as being too tight in the filter cover for starters. I knew something was not right like it was a copy and tried the other one I had and it was sweet as.
Cheers ... Phil in NZ
1972 Honda CB350F (2); 1975 CB400F; 1983 CBX400F (1); 1962 Suzuki MA50 (1); Suzuki M15 (3); Suzuki M15Mk2 (2); Suzuki M31 (2); 1936 James H12 (2); 1948 Triumph Speed Twin 500; 1989 Suzuki GSXR250F; Yamaha Chappy (2); alot of work yet to be done.

Offline fishman_Phil

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Re: 1972 350 four, Resto attempt from ground zero
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2008, 11:59:33 PM »
Talking about impact drivers, has anyone tried these from Irwin Tools:
http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/detail.jhtml?prodId=IrwinProd100519
http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/detail.jhtml?prodId=IrwinProd100512
I have a set of the Extractor Set for the first URL mentioned, but got it too late for my resto. One day another job will come up for them where I want to grip the rounded head of the stud rather than try and use an impact driver on it. I did use an impact driver on some of the studs. Previously on some bikes I have had to cut a slot using a small cold chisel so I could then use a bladed screwdriver.
Cheers ... Phil in NZ
1972 Honda CB350F (2); 1975 CB400F; 1983 CBX400F (1); 1962 Suzuki MA50 (1); Suzuki M15 (3); Suzuki M15Mk2 (2); Suzuki M31 (2); 1936 James H12 (2); 1948 Triumph Speed Twin 500; 1989 Suzuki GSXR250F; Yamaha Chappy (2); alot of work yet to be done.