Topic: '75 CB550, Starter motor spins but doesn't turn engine.

[BenjaminCorey]

I'm slowly making progress on all the electrical problems on my recent acquisition, a 1975 CB550.

I've replaced all the melted wiring caused by the previous owner reversing the battery polarity when jumping from his car, and I've replaced a bad starter solenoid. Now, I've got neutral lights and so on, but when I press the starter button all that happens is the starter spins without actually engaging the engine. That is to say, all I hear is the electrical motor spinning, not the characteristic chugging of a motorcycle trying to start. What is likely to be the culprit here?

I was thinking that I messed up when I reinstalled the starter engine (took it out to inspect it, before I realized that the solenoid was at fault) but after taking it back out and reinstalling it it seems like the process is pretty idiot proof.

On a side note, when I took off the left crankcase cover to get at the starter, a bunch of oil spilled out, is this normal?

Thanks!

[bryanj]

You should not get oil out of the covers on any 550 and it sounds like the starter clutch needs work-----unfortunately thats inside the crankcase and means engine out and strip

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Not sure about the 550 but on the 750 you have to remove the charging system rotor from the end of the crank to get to the starter clutch so you can replace the springs, caps, rollers etc. but you DO NOT have to remove the engine.

[TwoTired]

That is to say, all I hear is the electrical motor spinning, not the characteristic chugging of a motorcycle trying to start. What is likely to be the culprit here?

There's a one way roller clutch inside the motor.  Probably with hardened grease keeping the rollers from engaging.  They fly out with centrifugal force.
There's a chance that if you get the entire motor/trans unit good and hot from a long one hour or more ride, that the grease will melt enough for the springs to push the rollers out.  With enough repetitive heat and try cycles, it might work again reliably.  But, then again maybe not.  As Bryan says, getting at the starter clutch is a big job.  So, the heat and try is worth a shot to lazy guys like me.

On a side note, when I took off the left crankcase cover to get at the starter, a bunch of oil spilled out, is this normal?

Only for a bike with problems.  Check for oil pump leaks or the pressure sensor/sender at the top.  Clean spray with foot powder and run the engine.  The foot powder will change color where the leak is.

Cheers,

[BenjaminCorey]

It's been about half a year since this bike was run, so I'm not surprised to be finding an abundance of problems. Next move is to try and kick it over I suppose, but it definitely doesn't want to start.

[TwoTired]

I think your next move is to open the carb float bowl drains, see what comes out, and maybe squirt some carb cleaner in the hole.  Try to catch what comes out.  If you find pieces of anything larger than 0.016 inches in diameter, your slow/pilot/idle jets aren't going to work.

Also check the gas tank for rust, make sure the fuel filter is intact, so that you aren't feeding those tiny orifices in the carb with chunks of stuff that won't fit through them.

Cheers,

[goon 1492]

If those who aren't good at decimals that's one thousandth more than a 1/64" 
Too tired I just want to ask, Is there anything you don't know about these ol bikes? You are like a walking sohc encyclopedia.

[TwoTired]

Too tired I just want to ask, Is there anything you don't know about these ol bikes? You are like a walking sohc encyclopedia.

Yes, lots.  Its like a lot of things.  The more your learn, the more you realize there is to learn.  There are still mysteries with the SOHC4, too.  I don't know what the alloy recipe was for the aluminum based parts.  Never figured out what composition their clear coat was, etc.
Much of what I know is just familiarity gained from messing with them since 1975.  And, my methodology for gaining a storing information and data.

If you've seen the movie "The Bucket List", you may have noticed Morgan Freeman's character knows almost all the answers on the TV show Jeopardy.   People gain and enourmous amount of knowledge during their lives, some essential, some common, some trivial.  And, naturally, they accumulate the most just before they die. 
When I was in my twenties, I couldn't answer 1/4 of those Jeopardy questions.  But, I can answer more than I can't, now.  Also, because of my employment work projects, I also have stored away info that less than 1% of the population could even identify much less understand or make any use of.  I think that's true of just about anyone around retirement age.

I believe everybody knows things that I don't, depending on the field of questions and subject matter.  Life experiences teach you things, and many I have simply not encountered. I've just focused on the things that interested me or I found useful in my life.

Don't ask me questions about investment banking, or Cricket, for example. There are thousands of topics I simply cannot converse within.  You won't see me on forums about those.

I never studied preaching, either.  But, nearly everyone gains that ability simply by existing.  Me too!  Sorry, for all the Yawn material.

 
Cheers,

P.S.  I assumed you simply spelled my login name wrong.  If your question was directed to someone else...  Sorry, my bad.

[bryanj]

Lloyd, between you and me we have Waaaay too many years of engineering and Hondas, and on a good day i can manage cricket too, as to investment bankers-----wheres my shotgun!!!

[Sporkfly]

This could possibly be a stupid question, but were the spark plugs in?

Yeah, that was a stupid question... But anyway, I tested my starter with the plugs out (just a quick tap of the button) and it sure as heck didn't seem like it was spinning the engine with how little resistance it had to work against.

Oil behind the left crank cover (stator/rotor cover) is not normal. If the oil was from behind the sprocket cover (I would guess this is the one since you removed the starter) was it in the square area of the case? This part of the case covers the oil pump, the o-ring on the oil pump goes bad seeing as it is a 30+ year old bike. The oil pump is usually fine, you can spec it out to be sure. From there it takes a new o-ring which Honda doesn't sell - you'd have to buy a whole new oil pump. There's a member on this board that supposedly has some available. I know my oil pump was leaking from that O-ring, I replaced it with a 50mm O-ring, but the diameter of the rubber is too large and dropped my pressure (pushed the cover further away from the pump's rotor) so I have to figure something else out - like who the heck knows the size and has them available.

[goon 1492]

well said TwoTired, and I am sorry for the mis-spell. I was in a hurry at work on break. take care Ya'll

[Chris Liston]

There's a one way roller clutch inside the motor.  Probably with hardened grease keeping the rollers from engaging.  They fly out with centrifugal force.
There's a chance that if you get the entire motor/trans unit good and hot from a long one hour or more ride, that the grease will melt enough for the springs to push the rollers out.  With enough repetitive heat and try cycles, it might work again reliably.  But, then again maybe not. 

I've been dealing with the same issue since last year.  Luckily the kick starter works fine.  Alot of long rides with the motor good and hot have not had any change in starter engaging the roller gears.  Until I get the urge to tear into the motor I'll just deal.  It is annoying though that after the bike sat for 12 years the starter worked fine and then after 5 years of yearly riding it craps out

I wonder if you pulled the starter and liberally sprayed WD-40 in the direction of the starter gear would it work.  Obviously with some frequent oil changes to wash it all out.  TT, any thoughts?

[BenjaminCorey]

Alright, looks like I've got my work cut out for me. The Spark plugs are definitely in, but given the state of the electrical I think my next move is to verify that they're sparking. After that it's time to kick it over and take some long rides.

You guys are absolutely amazing, I'll keep you posted as I make progress.

[paulages]

if you remove the starter motor, you can test to see if it's the starter clutch. you'll find the tip of a gear (this is the starter clutch ring gear) in the hole where the end of the starter goes. it should spin freely in one direction, but not at all in the other.

if it is the starter clutch, it can be repaired without removing the engine. it's a royal pain in the ass, but it can be done. one must remove oil pan, oil pump, clutch, primary shaft bearing retainer, and then pull the primary shaft out the clutch side. with the shaft removed, the starter clutch, gear, and primary chain hub can be finagled around the primary chain and removed. get that far, and we'll offer more help.