Author Topic: Spark plugs?? (Read 10125 times)

Jim Shea · « **on:** September 25, 2005, 03:02:29 AM »

I have tried to extract my spark plugs this morning and it seems that the 2 plug spanners that I have are too big for the spark plugs?? Is there a specific type of plug spanner that i need? Also, the plugs do not appear to have any number on them, what type of plug do I need?
Thanks,
Jim.

Jim Shea · « **Reply #1 on:** September 25, 2005, 03:25:25 AM »

Spent an hour searching for NGK info on the site and found that....
I need a 18mm plug spanner and popular opinion says that NGK D8EAs are the plug to use?? Any comments??

GeoffT · « **Reply #2 on:** September 25, 2005, 03:40:04 AM »

Need a spark plug spanner. Does it have to be a special particularly for the inside two?
Will an ordinary 18 mil from any auto shop do the job?

GeoffT · « **Reply #3 on:** September 25, 2005, 03:54:06 AM »

Cool! Never seen one for a socket set. Day off tomorrow so a trip to the tool shop is on the cards. I only have a couple of the 'T' type handle ones - neither are 18 mil. Had the bike a year now so better check the plugs soon. They were new in when i got it.

Jim Shea · « **Reply #4 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:12:05 AM »

David Silver shows a NGK D8ESL plug for a F1, (I have a 76 F1).... I saw in another thread, to use the NGK D8EA, is there a difference??

Jim Shea · « **Reply #5 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:21:23 AM »

Maybe I should trust what the David Silver web site says to use??
On checking in the Greenspun archives, it appears that D8EA and D8ESL are the same plug, just updated numbering scheme!!

mcpuffett · « **Reply #6 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:21:44 AM »

hi jim , i also have a 76' f1 and i use DR8ESL £ 2 quid each from dave silvers

mick.

Jim Shea · « **Reply #7 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:25:05 AM »

Cheers Mick,
It seems the more you learn the less you know!!
I just read another thread saying "The reference to all CB 750 spark plugs isnt correct according to www.ngkcat.co.uk 750's K1 thru K6 = DR8ES-L K7 = D8EA Not sure about K8 Technical told me the centre electrode is thicker in D8EA and has a resistor."
I also read that the 750 already has a resistor and does not need it in the plug??
Bloody hell, it's a mine field!!!!
Jim.

Jim Shea · « **Reply #8 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:26:44 AM »

Mick,
Nice bike.... What sort of pipe are you running? I have a Motad but yours looks shorter, do you like it? Does the bike perform OK?
Jim.

GeoffT · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:28:26 AM »

Quote from: supersport_CB400F on September 25, 2005, 03:55:13 AM

it's stamped 12mm plug....... 18mm but I have a 400 and use those plugs

Know what I'm looking for now. I'll check the 12mm........18mm thing in the shop.

mcpuffett · « **Reply #10 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:34:25 AM »

hi jim, i have been using DR8ESL'S for well over 10 years with no issues

the exhaust is a home made affair the one in my picture is a cut down motad ,i also run my bike with s+b filters and sounds good and runs great

mick.

Jim Shea · « **Reply #11 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:36:14 AM »

Glad you know, I am still confused!! Is it a 12mm or an 18mm?

or is a 12mm plug spanner, the same as a 18mm socket??

Jim Shea · « **Reply #12 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:38:16 AM »

Mick,
Are the S&B filters from David Silver? or are they are a better filter in your opinion?

mcpuffett · « **Reply #13 on:** September 25, 2005, 04:50:49 AM »

hi jim , same again really i have been using these for over 10 years or more with no issues ,get's rid of standard air filter box, they are easy to clean, better access to carbs had to jet up on main jet and with exhaust i usually run makes bike breathe a lot better in my opinion

mick.

Kevin D · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2005, 05:32:40 AM »

Guys,
for threaded items the mm size generally refers to the thread size, and not to the hex head size.
Sockets are generally referred to by the hex size - but not this one.

I happen to like the spark plug socket supplied in the factory tool kit. It's thin walled with a long reach and knurling on the end to make it easy for finger tightening.

My K1 has resistor plug caps (5000 ohms), and so it doesn't need resistor plugs. It came with D8ES, and I have also used D8ES-L, D8EA. It presently has DR8ES-L (resistor plug) and it doesn't seem to mind at all having an extra resistor, but I will be changing them back to the non-resistor type.

My biggest problem is with plugs is that I have to ride the bike hard enough to keep them from getting fouled. Too much putt-putting around town is not good for this bike. I reduced the main jets one size to 115 this year and it seems to be better on that account. I used "Gumout" fuel additive/cleaner (once upon a time, never again) and the plugs were permanently fouled and had to be discarded.

bryanj · « **Reply #15 on:** September 25, 2005, 05:45:10 AM »

Hi Jim, I have a couple of original honda tool kit plug spanners new that i broought in from USA give me a ring and we will talk price if you want. Bryan

Jim Shea · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2005, 06:16:24 AM »

Bryan,
What time should I call you tomorrow?

Thanks guys for the info...
Jim.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2005, 06:19:06 AM »

Quote

Too much putt-putting around town is not good for this bike. I reduced the main jets one size to 115 this year and it seems to be better on that account.

Wouldn't this be more of a low speed jet/idle mixture issue? Fiddling with the idle mixture on mine cured the same issues.

Gordon · « **Reply #18 on:** September 25, 2005, 06:26:16 AM »

Oh NO! You woke up the carb beast!

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #19 on:** September 25, 2005, 08:02:58 AM »

Quote

Oh NO! You woke up the carb beast!

Growl!!....followed by a whimper.

techy5025 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 25, 2005, 10:06:46 AM »

The socket that fits all my plugs is an 18 mm "thin wall"
long reach socket. The clearance is reallly tight on the
750 between number 2 and 3 and the surrounding fins.

At one time I resorted to using the one that came in the
Honda tool kit. Back in the 70's, I read a writeup somewhere
that described grinding down a socket so that it would fit
over the plugs and clear the fins. I think that problem has
gone away with the thin wall jobbies.

And heed the advice to hand thread first...it is really easy to
cross thread....and to drop the plug and get it wedged in between
the fins....

Jim

techy5025 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 25, 2005, 12:14:45 PM »

Wow .. I learn something everyday. A plug socket carries a different
marking then a regular socket for the same hex size. Sounds like a good
addition to my toolbox...

Jim

eldar · « **Reply #22 on:** September 25, 2005, 07:55:50 PM »

In the USA, the 750 uses a D8EA plug. Non-resistor. These plugs use an 18 Millimeter socket which I got from sears. All plug sockets I have seen have a rubber insert. I have never worried about thin/thick walled sockets since mine socket has always fit fine. I suppose though in the UK and other areas, they use goofy measurements.

Also if you engine is tuned properly, ANY speed is fine for your bike.

GeoffT · « **Reply #23 on:** September 28, 2005, 06:57:29 AM »

Finally got round to picking up a spark plug socket today. It is marked 12mm right enough i took it outside the shop to test fit it first on no.s 1 + 2. Fits perfect. Used a universal joint conector thingy for extra reach. Got all the plugs out and they look fine. Only thing is that they are NGK D7ES. (I never wrote the number down before replacing the plugs so the letters might be off but the number was 7). Does that sound OK for a F1 550 as I see that many of you were mentioning an 8es or similar. I have no idea what the numbers mean in any case.

Jim Shea · « **Reply #24 on:** September 28, 2005, 07:35:32 AM »

Geff,
Good to hear that another newbie managed to change the plugs OK, I will be attempting it this weekend!
From the David Silver site; the DR7ES is for a 550 and the 8 is used on a 750...
Cheers,
Jim.

Jim Shea · « **Reply #25 on:** September 28, 2005, 08:03:45 AM »

Geff,
How did you get on with changing the air filter? did you have any problems?

TwoTired · « **Reply #26 on:** September 28, 2005, 12:49:52 PM »

D7ES is the old NGK number for the correct spark plugs for all the CB550s.
D7EA is the new number to replace the old NGK number. My understanding is that NGK just changed their numbering system since the time the bike was manufactured and manuals were printed.

Any plug with R in number is a resistor plug (DR7ES). And, is NOT correct for a CB550 unless the plug caps have also been changed to NON resistor.

Running multiple resistors in the ignition, shortens the effective life of the spark plugs, by marginally reducing the peak voltage to the spark gap. This can reduce performance. As the plug approach end of life, they need more voltage to fire. The stock CB550 ignition system has a lower upper limit to the voltage it can develop, unlike today's modern High Energy systems that employ resistor type plugs.

GeoffT · « **Reply #27 on:** September 28, 2005, 01:19:01 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on September 28, 2005, 12:49:52 PM

D7ES is the old NGK number for the correct spark plugs for all the CB550s.
D7EA is the new number to replace the old NGK number. My understanding is that NGK just changed their numbering system since the time the bike was manufactured and manuals were printed.

Hi Two Tired, it could well have been D7EA. I just took the plugs out to have a quick look and compare with the pics in the haynes manual. I noticed the were 7 a somthing. The guy i bought the bike from put new plugs in last year.

How long should they last by the way?

GeoffT · « **Reply #28 on:** September 28, 2005, 01:23:39 PM »

Quote from: Jim Shea on September 28, 2005, 08:03:45 AM

Geff,
How did you get on with changing the air filter? did you have any problems?

Put a new air filter in a few months ago on discovering there was nothing in the air filter box. Dave silver was able to provide all the gubbins for inside the box except the locking spring thingy. Fits in snug any way.

Going to change the oil filter soon. Its been on a year. I think i read you should change it every year. Never done it before but I have read on this site that we need to be carefull not to overtighten the nut or bolt on the oil filter housing.

TwoTired · « **Reply #29 on:** September 28, 2005, 01:50:43 PM »

The owner manual says the clean and regap the plug at 6000 miles, replace them at 12000 miles.

The spring thingy in the air filter is rather important. It presses the filter forward to seal against air bypassing the element. The filter loose in the box won't effectively seal and control the airflow.
Don't confuse the insertion resistance of the oil breather stand pipe as an effective seal for the filter outlet to the carbs.
Might be able to make a wooden wedge to take the place of the spring.

Or, I could post a pic of one so you could make something for the function.
Cheers,

GeoffT · « **Reply #30 on:** September 28, 2005, 02:08:01 PM »

Two Tired

that is a great idea. If its not to much trouble. It is quite a tight fit as it is but any improvement would help.

TwoTired · « **Reply #31 on:** September 28, 2005, 02:27:42 PM »

Here is is:

GeoffT · « **Reply #32 on:** September 29, 2005, 05:31:36 AM »

Interesting shape. Where and what does he clip on to?

SteveD CB500F · « **Reply #33 on:** September 29, 2005, 05:36:36 AM »

It holds the air filter in (see earlier post on this thread).

bryanj · « **Reply #34 on:** September 29, 2005, 07:59:31 AM »

Got several of those spring thingies new if you want one email me direct (with an address) and i will work out shipping

TwoTired · « **Reply #35 on:** September 29, 2005, 10:06:52 AM »

Quote from: GeoffT on September 29, 2005, 05:31:36 AM

Interesting shape. Where and what does he clip on to?

If you look toward the rear of the air box (inside). You'll see a molded channel (surprise) the width of the spring. The arch side goes against the filter.

Cheers,

GeoffT · « **Reply #36 on:** September 29, 2005, 10:29:50 AM »

Cheers guys great help once again.

popeye · « **Reply #37 on:** September 29, 2005, 08:24:25 PM »

a dab of anti-seize on plug threads makes 'em easy to unscrew

Jim Shea · « **Reply #38 on:** September 30, 2005, 12:49:54 AM »

One thing I did notice was that there was an amount of dirt, bits etc accumulated around the plug housing, before you remove the plug it is a good idea to blow any crap out of the plug area to stop it falling in to the barrel.

News:

Author Topic: Spark plugs?? (Read 10125 times)

Jim Shea

Jim Shea

Jim Shea

Jim Shea

Jim Shea

Jim Shea

Jim Shea

Jim Shea

Jim Shea

eldar

Jim Shea

Jim Shea

popeye

Jim Shea