Author Topic: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?  (Read 1462 times)

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Offline Soos

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Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« on: January 01, 2009, 02:39:55 AM »
Is there any handling effects on the cb frames using radial tires?
Found a smoking deal on a somwehat odd looking, but very nice tires.(i'm not starting a tire model preference thread)
However, front and rear are both radial tires.

I have read somewhere(or am confuzed) that putting radials on a bike with it's suspension set up for bias ply tires will affect handling.

I know not to intermix radials and belted tires due to handling characteristics being different between the 2 types, but as far as not putting a set of radials on a belted designed bike and rims or vice versa, I dunno.


l8r


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fuzzybutt

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Re: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2009, 07:05:07 AM »
i've always run radials on my k4. no problems there.

Offline Triffecpa

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Re: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2009, 08:28:33 AM »

Just make sure that you have the proper rim width to match the tires and you'll be fine.  Radial tires, generally speaking, require wider rims than comparable bias ply tires.

Tracy

Offline Soos

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Re: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2009, 09:39:56 AM »
thnx, i'll go for them then.



Anyone run a set of michelin Anakee's before?


l8r
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Offline Tower

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Re: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2009, 10:08:26 AM »
I have Michelin radials from the 1980's on my K3 and they work fine, albeit a bit stiff.

However, I'm not sure radials and motorcycles are compatible from a design perspective.

The whole idea of radial-plys was to align the plys so that the tyre could conform to the road as the vehicle turned.  In other words the tyre "squirms" in the opposite direction of the turn force.  The sidewalls are not as firm as on bias-ply designs, allowing this to happen.

This "squirm" is the opposite of what is needed on a motorcycle.  Imagine your tyre's tread moving to the inside of a turn as your bike leans into the corner...the tyre would crush towards the inside rim sidewall and stretch against the outside sidewall...a potential disaster.  This happens on automobiles also: But since they tend not to lean nearly as much, and then very slightly in the opposite direction, this offsets most of the negative effect.  That leaves the automobile with the much more positive aspect, of added grip.   

For this reason, radial-ply is ostensibly an inferior design for motorcycles, making bias-ply the superior motorcycle tyre, as it keeps the sidewalls firm when they are most needed as the centre tread in corners. 

Motorcycle radials have had to strengthen their sidewall designs as a consequence of this squirm problem. But that kind of defeats the radial design concept.

Grippy rubber and firm bias-ply sidewalls are the way to go. 

Offline cafe750

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Re: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2009, 11:57:07 AM »
thnx, i'll go for them then.



Anyone run a set of michelin Anakee's before?


l8r
Anakee's are great dual sport tires, I sell em to guys on BMW GS's on a regular basis. They're good and grippy, and you'll get decent life out of em.
"It's an old motorcycle, the wind is supposed to blow your head around, it's supposed to leak oil, the brakes should suck, and every now and then, it should scare you so bad you piss your pants."



Roy, Washington

Offline Soos

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Re: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2009, 05:51:40 AM »
Thats one of the main reasons I'm going for them.

The dealer let me take out a "demo" bike for a spin with the same tires on it.
I LIKE 'em.
I didn't get to take them offroad, but for looking like little blocks on the tire basically, they ride really smooth.(and can cut corners like a bat outta hell)


Just under $200 for the set, and $50 for mounting I don't think I can go wrong with them.
I couldn't believe they actually had a set available that fit both my front and rear rims.
100/90-19, and 130/90-17.
I am glad now that my tires will at least be younger than my children.
:)


l8r



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Offline MCRider

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Re: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2009, 06:23:38 AM »
I have Michelin radials from the 1980's on my K3 and they work fine, albeit a bit stiff.

However, I'm not sure radials and motorcycles are compatible from a design perspective.
SNIP 

For this reason, radial-ply is ostensibly an inferior design for motorcycles, making bias-ply the superior motorcycle tyre, as it keeps the sidewalls firm when they are most needed as the centre tread in corners. 

Motorcycle radials have had to strengthen their sidewall designs as a consequence of this squirm problem. But that kind of defeats the radial design concept.

Grippy rubber and firm bias-ply sidewalls are the way to go. 
Hmmm.  all modern street motorcycles including and especially the highest performance types, Hyabusa, etc, and GP racers have had radials for decades. The problem you indicate has been fully addressed and radials are the way to go... IMHO and that of all manufacturers, high mileage/performance enthusiasts like the Iron Butt Crowd, and racers.

However they may be considered overkill on sub-100hp bikes and bias ply may be more cost effective. Though those prices have likely equalized as well.

Narrow rim width of older bikes is an issue as posted.
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Offline Tower

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Re: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2009, 11:16:55 AM »
Quote
Hmmm.  all modern street motorcycles including and especially the highest performance types, Hyabusa, etc, and GP racers have had radials for decades. The problem you indicate has been fully addressed and radials are the way to go... IMHO and that of all manufacturers, high mileage/performance enthusiasts like the Iron Butt Crowd, and racers.

From the newest research  I have, the radial fix for this problem was to add bias plys, thicken the side rubber and harden the rubber compound of the sidewall.  That is, make the radial tyre act like a bias ply tyre.  That's what I meant by kind of defeating the radial design concept.

If the hybrid radial-bias motorcycle tyre is anything, it is strong.  The extra plys and harder compounds add durability, and the sought after wider stance adds traction.  This combo is especially good on large cruiser types with wide tyres that do not lean hard into corners, but get lots of highway miles. 

Also, a factor I didn't mention earlier was aspect ratio.  As the aspect ratios get lower and lower, the sidewall becomes less prone to over flex, simply because there is less of it to  flex.  Again, good for modern bikes with wide low tyres - bad for older bikes with narrow tall tyres.  (I'm playing a little of the devil's advocate here - as I believe tyres are way overengineered for their purpose, so regardless of these considerations, radials are more than adequate for our bikes).

BTW...pinching the sidewall, creating an excessive pinch angle (when rim is too narrow for the tyre) is bad because it increases leverage force on the sidewall to move outward.  But, pinching a radial sidewall is extra bad if you believe the sidewalls are inherently weaker.  Also, the pinch angle becomes a bigger headache as aspect ratio drops.  i.e. rims must get even wider to keep up with lower aspect ratios.  Hence, from both perspectives, the need for wider rims.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Radial tires on a CB frame? wil this affect handling?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2009, 11:47:18 AM »
Good info, thanks!
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."