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Offline HondaMan

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Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« on: November 28, 2008, 10:33:17 AM »
Recently, several new "hotrod" tricks for increasing battery voltage have appeared. Some of these parts are good: some are not so good, depending on how much you ride the bike. Here's the story behind these parts:

1. Rectifiers.
There are some modern rectifier diodes, specifically called "Schottky diodes", that can improve the power output from the older SOHC4 alternators. These diodes have a lower forward voltage drop, which becomes less waste heat, and in turn becomes more battery stoage power. These nice units are pricey: I have seen them selling for up to $60  :o  on some websites, and they are a good way to recover some lost power from your aging OEM unit.

A related tip: make a piece of 16AWG wire (green is appropriate color) with a 6mm ring terminal on one end and an 8mm ring terminal on the other. Remove your rectifier's mounting nut from its post and clean everything there, then install this new wire to that same post, adding it under the nut, perhaps add a star washer with it for good cut into the bracket. Install it all back onto the bracket. Connect the other, 6mm, ring terminal to the frame ground under the seat on these bikes, maybe add a star washer there, too. The actual improvement: this provides a clean, direct, low-impedance electrical circuit where the old one is corroding. The original curcuit uses 2 or 3 bracket connections before reaching frame ground: this was OK when new, but doesn't age well. The improvement here is often about .15v to .25v in battery voltage. Also: replace the contacts in the rectifier-alternator connector (get the parts from www.vintageconnections.com) for like-new results.

2. Regulators.
There are 2 types of non-OEM regulators out there: series-regulators (like the OEM circuit, but solid-state now) and shunt regulators.
The solid-state series regulators will regulate the field coil on these bikes' alternators in the same manner that they were designed for, but a little more efficiently overall. This will result in about a .15v to .25v battery voltage increase, and a more stable battery water level over time, than with the stock, aging regulator. I should mention, though, that the stock regulator can be easily tuned up for like-new performance, accomplishing the same thing for just some tinkering time.
The ("newer") solid-state shunt regulators will immediately drive the battery voltage up to nearly 14 volts. While this seems attractive at first, it accomplishes this miracle by hot-rdding the alternator, much like installing 11:1 compression pistons increases engine output: there is a cost in terms of lifetime, because of heat. This isn't necessarily bad, if you only ride short periods of time, like commuting or weekends only. If you plan on a lot of long rides, this probably isn't your best choice, for reliability reasons.

Here's how this shunt trick works: A conversion-type shunt regulator turns the alternator ON at 100% by applying full power to the field coil all the time. The electronics in the regulator detect the system voltage through a zener diode of some sort and when it rises above maximum, shunts the alternator current back to the alternator by turning on a shunt thyristor (aka SCR) to "short out" the extra AC current, so it doesn't go into the battery. This makes some extra heat at both the thyristor (which has a finned heatsink case) and in the alternator. Usually, the thyristor can take the heat, but the (original) alternator's insulation will begin to suffer tiny cracks over time from this extra heat. Eventually, this insulation will start flaking off, shorting out one, then two, three, and more, windings in the alternator itself, until the output starts to drop. If the engine is only run for, say, 30 minutes at a time, it will take several years of daily riding before this loss becomes an issue. But, one week-long summer tour can toast much of the alternator, dropping its output by 25% after the trip. The evidence of this sort of damage is apparent: looking at the alternator will reveal darkened ("burnt") windings down inside the epoxy, obviously not caused by external heating, rather by internal heating. (In contrast, an alternator that was damaged by some sort of external impact, like dropping a wrench on it while it's open, will display burned insulation at the outer layers of the windings, or a burned field coil only.)

One of Honda's own shunt designs:
Some of you may remember the immensely popular Honda CX500 inline V-twin bike, rated the most-stolen single model in biking history, for its remarkable performance and nimble handling, and Phantom-jet exhaust note. This model had a shunt-type alternator-regulator design, and it cost Honda the whole bike in the end. Talk with nearly any tourer who owned one for more than 3 years: they will likely tell you that the alternator and regulator were replaced at least once, and Honda extended the warranty for several years to cover it (lawyers were involved): the engine had to come out to replace it and the melted wiring harness. By the time it became the Silver Wing tourer (and 600cc), Honda had created a series-interference type regulator to reduce the heating, but the reputation as a poor tourer was already on the street, and it failed in the marketplace. Too bad, it was a nice ride!  :-\ 

This is the "cost" of hotrodding the alternator without also spending a lot of money on the insulation in those wires to take the extra heat. For the most part, this design problem today is handled by improving the insulation or decreasing the wire size to increase internal resistance, while also increasing clearances, to let things cool off a bit more, if the shunt design is employed. Series-field regulator designs are more costly, but in the end, also more long-lived, and are usually found only on the upper-end bikes.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline tbpmusic

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2008, 01:01:51 PM »
Great stuff, Mark.

I re-printed the whole thing over at HondaTwins.net, giving full credit to you.
hope that's ok??

bill2
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Bill Lane
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2008, 03:18:23 PM »
Great stuff, Mark.

I re-printed the whole thing over at HondaTwins.net, giving full credit to you.
hope that's ok??

bill2

Sure. I don't care if I "get the credit", so long as the info gets out there.  :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

jsaab2748

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2008, 04:59:54 PM »
Hey Hondaman, what type regulator does the guy from Oregon motorcycle parts sell? (assuming you've seen/heard of them)
thanx.....

Offline rustrocket92

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2008, 05:06:22 PM »
I was just wondering the same thing about oregon cycles.
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Offline ghost

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2008, 05:13:25 PM »
so what about adding cooling fins to the alternator case when "hot roding" your electrical system. i've been thinking about trying this anyway. or would doing that be just a waste of time
1980 cb650c first bike i owned now the wife's ride.           1982 xv920j virago, bike i learned to ride on rescued it from a 13 year coma (sitting in the shed) now she runs beautifully and rides like a dream.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2008, 09:35:46 PM »
Hey Hondaman, what type regulator does the guy from Oregon motorcycle parts sell? (assuming you've seen/heard of them)
thanx.....

I don't know his specific product. You can probably ask him, if he's also the designer, and get a pretty straight answer, I would think.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2008, 09:38:09 PM »
so what about adding cooling fins to the alternator case when "hot roding" your electrical system. i've been thinking about trying this anyway. or would doing that be just a waste of time

Back in the day, there were custom finned cover kits and even whole engine cover parts with either cast-on or add-on fins, designed to cool down the 1000cc kits. These were popular with the chops and the big-bore riders, and the alternator cover would probably help! They did lower engine oil temps, which was their main claim to fame.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline ghost

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2008, 10:44:40 PM »
very interesting. i think over this winter i may have to play with my tig welder and some aluminum. or should i cast some maybe. hmmm
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 10:46:17 PM by ghost »
1980 cb650c first bike i owned now the wife's ride.           1982 xv920j virago, bike i learned to ride on rescued it from a 13 year coma (sitting in the shed) now she runs beautifully and rides like a dream.

Offline 750goes

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2008, 01:07:03 AM »
G'day Hondaman,

been awhile since I have been active on the forum and still have not installed your ignition system on my 750F - hope I install it before the warranty runs out   lol   

Just a comment to you about the cx500 - I just happened to purchase a 1981 custom model (german import to australia)... and have joined a local cx forum as well... your information regarding the alternators are spot on........I think I need to replace my regulator...but too lazy to do it at the moment....I just keep the battery charged on a float charger maybe twice a week and don't ride at night...but I know I will probably need to do the alternator in a year or so.....

cheers  :)

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2008, 08:05:09 AM »
G'day Hondaman,

been awhile since I have been active on the forum and still have not installed your ignition system on my 750F - hope I install it before the warranty runs out   lol   

Just a comment to you about the cx500 - I just happened to purchase a 1981 custom model (german import to australia)... and have joined a local cx forum as well... your information regarding the alternators are spot on........I think I need to replace my regulator...but too lazy to do it at the moment....I just keep the battery charged on a float charger maybe twice a week and don't ride at night...but I know I will probably need to do the alternator in a year or so.....

cheers  :)

750: See if Honda still supplies their retrofit series-like regulator after you put in the new alternator. It tended to boil off the battery water, but if you also got an AGV battery, or an Enersys battery, this wouldn't be so much an issue. The series-conversion regulator made the system run at about 14-14.5 volts. Nice lights, but mighty warm battery.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline TomC

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2008, 01:28:17 PM »
Hi HondaMan
     "The series-conversion regulator made the system run at about 14-14.5 volts. Nice lights, but mighty warm battery."
     Both my CB400F1 and my CB750F1 put a nice warm 15 + volts across my battery, The battery belongs in my Yamaha, after a good ride. Why buy anything. Just do not fix what you have.
     The Yamaha charged at 14.25 volts. The battery came from Wal*Mart three years ago. I do try and remember to fill the battery with water before the level gets down to the plates.
     I am still working on the connections on my CB750 to get the stock Honda regulator to control the voltage to 14.25 volts. The regulator currently regulates to about 14.75 volts. My to do list includes checking to see were the voltage is dropping. My guess is the main switch.
     Both my CB750F1 and CB400F1 given the time to do so would over charge the battery. The CB400F1 might take a long time or in the city never get there. But the alternator was doing it's best. I do not see how any of these other regulators can do more that that. Rectifiers on the other hand might be an improvement over what is there.
          TomC in Ohio
TomC in Ohio
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2008, 05:45:21 PM »
Hi HondaMan
     "The series-conversion regulator made the system run at about 14-14.5 volts. Nice lights, but mighty warm battery."
     Both my CB400F1 and my CB750F1 put a nice warm 15 + volts across my battery, The battery belongs in my Yamaha, after a good ride. Why buy anything. Just do not fix what you have.
     The Yamaha charged at 14.25 volts. The battery came from Wal*Mart three years ago. I do try and remember to fill the battery with water before the level gets down to the plates.
     I am still working on the connections on my CB750 to get the stock Honda regulator to control the voltage to 14.25 volts. The regulator currently regulates to about 14.75 volts. My to do list includes checking to see were the voltage is dropping. My guess is the main switch.
     Both my CB750F1 and CB400F1 given the time to do so would over charge the battery. The CB400F1 might take a long time or in the city never get there. But the alternator was doing it's best. I do not see how any of these other regulators can do more that that. Rectifiers on the other hand might be an improvement over what is there.
          TomC in Ohio

Tom:
Check also the little green ground under the seat, and the ground (green) on the regulator, so see if they are dirty/corroded. Last place to look: the power resistor on the bottom of the voltage regulator. If it is open (cracked, broken, etc.), the voltage regulator cannot turn OFF the alternator at 14.5v, just like if the connections are corroded.

Honda has always insisted that the regulator controls between 12.75 and 14.25 volts, but I've seen widely varying regulators because they were poorly set up at the DENSO factory (these older electro-mechanical types, that is...). This can be tuned, though.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline strangedaze39

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2008, 09:47:05 PM »
Thanks for posting this HondaMan.

I have a CB350F, and I'm would love to get as much extra juice as possible. ATM it pretty much holds it's own, but thats about it. Is the only problem with the shunt method heat? I've talked to rickystator.com, and they claim they can rewind my stator and help me boost my power output. Basically if it could power a small GPS system, and heated vest for touring with no sacrifice to the bikes reliability. Either one or both would be nice.  I wouldn't part with the bike over, but I'd like to do what I can.

Thanks
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2008, 10:38:46 AM »
Thanks for posting this HondaMan.

I have a CB350F, and I'm would love to get as much extra juice as possible. ATM it pretty much holds it's own, but thats about it. Is the only problem with the shunt method heat? I've talked to rickystator.com, and they claim they can rewind my stator and help me boost my power output. Basically if it could power a small GPS system, and heated vest for touring with no sacrifice to the bikes reliability. Either one or both would be nice.  I wouldn't part with the bike over, but I'd like to do what I can.

Thanks

If you decide to part with it, call me first?  ;)

I've heard about that rewind, and am curious myself. I've been working on a halogen headlight setup for the 350F, would like to be able to offer a comprehensive package of alternator, improved rectifier, and LED lights elsewhere. There is a new breed of LEDs coming soon that should solve the brightness problem, but it will take Japan, Inc. a while to get them into the marketplace: Stanley found how to use alumina-based substrates in place of sapphire to improve brightness 200% while also reducing cost 80% ! Certainly this will solve the niggling trouble of LED bike lights.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2008, 02:16:43 PM »
Quote
I've been working on a halogen headlight setup for the 350F...
Philips has developped a 'fuel-efficient' halogen bulb recently, the EcoVision. Philips claims it uses 20% less electricity. For if you fear charging issues.
http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/en/gb/consumer/cc/_categoryid_ECOVISION_CAR_LAMPS_CA_GB_CONSUMER/#/consumer/en/gb/consumer/cc/_categoryid_ECOVISION_CAR_LAMPS_CA_GB_CONSUMER/
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Offline Van-van

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2012, 09:06:29 AM »
How does one tune the mechanical regulator?

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2012, 12:44:38 PM »
Read the workshop manual.

Offline Van-van

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2012, 01:11:37 PM »
Oh i didnt know it was therr. Thanks.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2012, 04:52:59 PM »
Very interesting info. I will be installing the alternate ground next weekend.
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Offline q2418130103p

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 03:17:16 PM »
Fyi, from ricksmotorsport when I asked them about their regulator/rectifier:

"Shunt & series only apply to a permanent magnet system, not field excited like this piece."
Check out my CB550 project thread:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83097

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2012, 06:10:21 PM »
Fyi, from ricksmotorsport when I asked them about their regulator/rectifier:

"Shunt & series only apply to a permanent magnet system, not field excited like this piece."

Ummm...speaking as an electrical engineer...they don't know what they are speaking of. Shunt regulators apply to any alternator, properly excited.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 09:12:19 PM »
Gday Mark, i thought this thread would be the right lace to ask. We all know that the Honda charge system is less than perfect, how hard would it be to make a completely new stator and rotor.? In one of the fuel injection threads a guy runs a VFR800 charging system and it is miles better. With all the expertise on this forum would it be possible to make a new system, i am sure it would be a best seller.?
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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2012, 05:44:54 PM »
Gday Mark, i thought this thread would be the right lace to ask. We all know that the Honda charge system is less than perfect, how hard would it be to make a completely new stator and rotor.? In one of the fuel injection threads a guy runs a VFR800 charging system and it is miles better. With all the expertise on this forum would it be possible to make a new system, i am sure it would be a best seller.?


Well, the 750 system has no issues, if the voltage regulator contacts are cleaned once every 20 years or so. The 500/550 is a more serious problem. In the 750, increasing the system voltage immediately adds loads to the little bullet connectors everywhere, and since most of the wires are sized for no more than 13.8 volts in the battery, pushing it up to 14.5 with a shunt regulator can lead to having to rewire the bike, or at the least replace most of the connectors, if old. Sometimes, ya gotta remember that there is not just one "fix" to these things. :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline SohRon

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2012, 09:17:48 AM »
Quote
1. Rectifiers.
There are some modern rectifier diodes, specifically called "Schottky diodes", that can improve the power output from the older SOHC4 alternators. These diodes have a lower forward voltage drop, which becomes less waste heat, and in turn becomes more battery stoage power. These nice units are pricey: I have seen them selling for up to $60    on some websites, and they are a good way to recover some lost power from your aging OEM unit.

HondaMan, I'd like to try this upgrade; can you recommend some specific diodes to look for? I'm interested in your thoughts on silicon carbide Schottky diodes and their possible application, as well. Any new thoughts/changes/improvements in the last four years since you originally posted this?

Thanks for all of the help you've provided me and others over the years. Can't say enough how valuable it's been.

Ron
"He slipped back down the alley with some roly-poly little bat-faced girl..."

Assembling my '74 CB550: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=86697.0
Assembly of the Right-hand Switch (a rebuilder's guide):  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=80532.0
Installing stock 4X4 exhaust: CB500-CB550 K: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=82323.0
CB550 Assembly Manual: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,151576.0.html

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2012, 10:15:44 AM »
Quote
1. Rectifiers.
There are some modern rectifier diodes, specifically called "Schottky diodes", that can improve the power output from the older SOHC4 alternators. These diodes have a lower forward voltage drop, which becomes less waste heat, and in turn becomes more battery stoage power. These nice units are pricey: I have seen them selling for up to $60    on some websites, and they are a good way to recover some lost power from your aging OEM unit.

HondaMan, I'd like to try this upgrade; can you recommend some specific diodes to look for? I'm interested in your thoughts on silicon carbide Schottky diodes and their possible application, as well. Any new thoughts/changes/improvements in the last four years since you originally posted this?

Thanks for all of the help you've provided me and others over the years. Can't say enough how valuable it's been.

Ron

It's been a while since I looked around (or designed that Schottky bridge!), but I think they are still 'out there' on the Internet. I stopped making mine when I found one already available, so I suppose it's still there? I think it was on a chopper parts site, and would fit the 500/550 or 750 system. My next personal move will be to make one for my new toy, the CB350F I got last year for fun and experiments. Those are so seriously power-limited that I hope to come up with several enhancements, in the hope of running a halogen headlight in the 45/50w range.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Bodi

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2012, 03:07:17 PM »
I have an older Oregon Electric regulator - mine does not have the adjustable voltage feature I see on their website now. presumably the basic operation is unchanged. The one I have works like the original Honda one, varying the field coil current to control the alternator output.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2012, 11:20:00 PM »
Quote
1. Rectifiers.
There are some modern rectifier diodes, specifically called "Schottky diodes", that can improve the power output from the older SOHC4 alternators. These diodes have a lower forward voltage drop, which becomes less waste heat, and in turn becomes more battery stoage power. These nice units are pricey: I have seen them selling for up to $60    on some websites, and they are a good way to recover some lost power from your aging OEM unit.

HondaMan, I'd like to try this upgrade; can you recommend some specific diodes to look for? I'm interested in your thoughts on silicon carbide Schottky diodes and their possible application, as well. Any new thoughts/changes/improvements in the last four years since you originally posted this?

Thanks for all of the help you've provided me and others over the years. Can't say enough how valuable it's been.

Ron

The Schottky diode has long been an efficiency-improving device in these sorts of systems, developed during the Apollo Program to reach the moon. They have a forward voltage drop of just 0.3v, where normal silicon diodes are about 0.7v. Germanium is better at 0.25v, but almost impossible to find since about 1980.

You can buy Schottky bridge rectifiers from places like Digi-Key or Mouser Electronics, to build one yourself. In the Tips & Tricks there used to be an article on building your own silicon bridge: just sub in appropriate Schottky bridges and you're there. Get at least 50 PIV rating at 25 amps, and mount it to a metal (aluminum is best) plate about 3"x4" (or larger in area), and it will work fine.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline thrutheframe

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2012, 05:59:46 AM »
  Great info here.  Thanks Hondaman.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline Coronet

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2014, 09:29:19 AM »
Hey Hondaman, what type regulator does the guy from Oregon motorcycle parts sell? (assuming you've seen/heard of them)
thanx.....

  I e-mailed and asked him and he said his were solid state series regulators not shunt style regulators.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Alternator improvements-and warnings...
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2014, 07:36:02 PM »
Hey Hondaman, what type regulator does the guy from Oregon motorcycle parts sell? (assuming you've seen/heard of them)
thanx.....

  I e-mailed and asked him and he said his were solid state series regulators not shunt style regulators.

That would at least keep them from burning up the windings. The shunt-type I've seen are made for alternators with a different kind of insulation from the SOHC4 types, one that withstands the heat of shunt regulators better. I suspect then, that this Oregon design is likely a full-on field coil (or near it) with a series impedance device that "holds back the water" so to speak, monitoring the progress as battery voltage. Not a bad arrangement, provided the regulator device (usually a thyristor or transistor) can withstand the heat of a full-short now and then. Some of these types contain a cutoff circuit, so if the load gets too high (like a short) it just folds itself back to a safe level to survive. That would make it pretty goof-proof, and reliable.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com