Author Topic: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....  (Read 4735 times)

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Offline nickjtc

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Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« on: December 08, 2008, 02:39:00 PM »
...it makes an interesting read of one persons perspective on the US domestic auto industry crisis.

Saving the Big 3 for You and Me ... a message from Michael Moore Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008

Friends, I drive an American car. It's a Chrysler. That's not an endorsement. It's more like a cry for pity. And now for a decades-old story, retold ad infinitum by tens of millions of Americans, a third of whom have had to desert their country to simply find a damn way to get to work in something that won't break down:
 
My Chrysler is four years old. I bought it because of its smooth and comfortable ride. Daimler-Benz owned the company then and had the good grace to place the Chrysler chassis on a Mercedes axle and, man, was that a sweet ride! When it would start. More than a dozen times in these years, the car has simply died. Batteries have been replaced, but that wasn't the problem. My dad drives the same model. His car has died many times, too. Just won't start, for no reason at all.
 
A few weeks ago, I took my Chrysler in to the Chrysler dealer here in northern Michigan -- and the latest fixes cost me $1,400. The next day, the vehicle wouldn't start. When I got it going, the brake warning light came on. And on and on.
 
You might assume from this that I couldn't give a rat's ass about these miserably inept crapmobile makers down the road in Detroit city. But I do care. I care about the millions whose lives and livelihoods depend on these car companies. I care about the security and defense of this country because the world is running out of oil -- and when it runs out, the calamity and collapse that will take place will make the current recession/depression look like a Tommy Tune musical. And I care about what happens with the Big 3 because they are more responsible than almost anyone for the destruction of our fragile atmosphere and the daily melting of our polar ice caps.
 
Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century. And Congress must do all this by NOT giving GM, Ford and Chrysler the $34 billion they are asking for in "loans" (a few days ago they only wanted $25 billion; that's how stupid they are -- they don't even know how much they really need to make this month's payroll. If you or I tried to get a loan from the bank this way, not only would we be thrown out on our ear, the bank would place us on some sort of credit rating blacklist).

Two weeks ago, the CEOs of the Big 3 were tarred and feathered before a Congressional committee who sneered at them in a way far different than when the heads of the financial industry showed up two months earlier. At that time, the politicians tripped over each other in their swoon for Wall Street and its Ponzi schemers who had concocted Byzantine ways to bet other people's money on unregulated credit default swaps, known in the common vernacular as unicorns and fairies.
But the Detroit boys were from the Midwest, the Rust (yuk!) Belt, where they made real things that consumers needed and could touch and buy, and that continually recycled money into the economy (shocking!), produced unions that created the middle class, and fixed my teeth for free when I was ten.

For all of that, the auto heads had to sit there in November and be ridiculed about how they traveled to D.C. Yes, they flew on their corporate jets, just like the bankers and Wall Street thieves did in October. But, hey, THAT was OK! They're the Masters of the Universe! Nothing but the best chariots for Big Finance as they set about to loot our nation's treasury. Of course, the auto magnates used be the Masters who ruled the world. They were the pulsating hub that all other industries -- steel, oil, cement contractors -- served. Fifty-five years ago, the president of GM sat on that same Capitol Hill and bluntly told Congress, what's good for General Motors is good for the country. Because, you see, in their minds, GM WAS the country.
 
What a long, sad fall from grace we witnessed on November 19th when the three blind mice had their knuckles slapped and then were sent back home to write an essay called, "Why You Should Give Me Billions of Dollars of Free Cash." They were also asked if they would work for a dollar a year. Take that! What a big, brave Congress they are! Requesting indentured servitude from (still) three of the most powerful men in the world. This from a spineless body that won't dare stand up to a disgraced president nor turn down a single funding request for a war that neither they nor the American public support. Amazing.
 
Let me just state the obvious: Every single dollar Congress gives these three companies will be flushed right down the toilet. There is nothing the management teams of the Big 3 are going to do to convince people to go out during a recession and buy their big, gas-guzzling, inferior products. Just forget it. And, as sure as I am that the Ford family-owned Detroit Lions are not going to the Super Bowl -- ever -- I can guarantee you, after they burn through this $34 billion, they'll be back for another $34 billion next summer.
 
So what to do? Members of Congress, here's what I propose:

1. Transporting Americans is and should be one of the most important functions our government must address. And because we are facing a massive economic, energy and environmental crisis, the new president and Congress must do what Franklin Roosevelt did when he was faced with a crisis (and ordered the auto industry to stop building cars and instead build tanks and planes): The Big 3 are, from this point forward, to build only cars that are not primarily dependent on oil and, more importantly to build trains, buses, subways and light rail (a corresponding public works project across the country will build the rail lines and tracks). This will not only save jobs, but create millions of new ones.

2. You could buy ALL the common shares of stock in General Motors for less than $3 billion. Why should we give GM $18 billion or $25 billion or anything? Take the money and buy the company! (You're going to demand collateral anyway if you give them the "loan," and because we know they will default on that loan, you're going to own the company in the end as it is. So why wait? Just buy them out now.) 3. None of us want government officials running a car company, but there are some very smart transportation geniuses who could be hired to do this. We need a Marshall Plan to switch us off oil-dependent vehicles and get us into the 21st century.
 
This proposal is not radical or rocket science. It just takes one of the smartest people ever to run for the presidency to pull it off. What I'm proposing has worked before. The national rail system was in shambles in the '70s. The government took it over. A decade later it was turning a profit, so the government returned it to private/public hands, and got a couple billion dollars put back in the treasury. This proposal will save our industrial infrastructure -- and millions of jobs. More importantly, it will create millions more. It literally could pull us out of this recession.
 
In contrast, yesterday General Motors presented its restructuring proposal to Congress. They promised, if Congress gave them $18 billion now, they would, in turn, eliminate around 20,000 jobs. You read that right. We give them billions so they can throw more Americans out of work. That's been their Big Idea for the last 30 years -- layoff thousands in order to protect profits. But no one ever stopped to ask this question: If you throw everyone out of work, who's going to have the money to go out and buy a car?

These idiots don't deserve a dime. Fire all of them, and take over the industry for the good of the workers, the country and the planet. What's good for General Motors IS good for the country. Once the country is calling the shots.

Yours,
Michael Moore
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Offline ekim98

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2008, 06:41:46 PM »

 That could not have been writtrn by the liberal m.m. from gay rights town. First off he dosen't know that may words, he never bashed Bush, he didn't say he loves Nobama and most of it makes sense. So this must be a different Michael Moore.   
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Offline DRam

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2008, 07:16:42 PM »
Well, he did intimate Nobama was the smartest person ever to run for president.  Unless he was talking about F. Roosevelt or G.W. Bush.

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 03:27:59 AM »

 That could not have been writtrn by the liberal m.m. from gay rights town. First off he dosen't know that may words, he never bashed Bush, he didn't say he loves Nobama and most of it makes sense. So this must be a different Michael Moore.   

It would appear to be genuine.

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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 05:18:29 AM »
These idiots don't deserve a dime. Fire all of them, and take over the industry for the good of the workers, the country and the planet. What's good for General Motors IS good for the country. Once the country is calling the shots.

So, there you go.  If anybody had any doubts, now we know that Michael Moore is a full-blown communist.
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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2008, 06:07:25 AM »
Quote
The national rail system was in shambles in the '70s. The government took it over. A decade later it was turning a profit, so the government returned it to private/public hands, and got a couple billion dollars put back in the treasury.

Are you sure?

Offline volkswagendan

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2008, 06:26:37 AM »
who cares who wrote it. read it again and wake up america!  
our country is heading straight down the tubes if we the people continue to let corporate giants rape our system.
i agree with what he said. 100% !!!
 and dont you dare call me a communist.  i love this country.(edbikerii-when he says,"once the country is calling the shots" he is referring to the "country" as WE THE PEOPLE, not just the government. duh.)  
i work hard every day to build my little carpet cleaning business.  i pay my taxes.   and i'm sick and tired of giving my money to politicians and companies  who pi55 it away.  
i too ran my business with the use of a ford van for my first 5 years.   one day after paying for my 2nd ford van transmission i added up the gas and repairs over the past 5 years.   i could of bought a new van from that money alone.
i fixed the van and sold it.  took my hard earned money and down-sized to  honda elements.
in the past 3 years of using elements instead of f-150's ive saved enough money to go on vacation every winter.
all i put on the elements are tires, oil changes, and one windshield. I'm done with american crap cars. if they made a good product i'd use it.  but you honda people know this. after all this is not a harley-davidson forum.   honda owners are smart people.  wake up america, its time to sink or swim.
so go ahead and trash what i have to say, judge me by my silly photo on the left. call me what you want. sooner (i hope) then later you too will wake up.
-dan shotwell

« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 07:01:58 AM by volkswagendan »
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Offline Demon67

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2008, 07:29:00 AM »
Ed tosses about the communist scare words about what he doesn't understand and won't take time to understand.
Bill the demon.

Offline edbikerii

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 07:45:58 AM »
Well, Dan, I think you should pay your employees more so they stop trashing your Ford vans.  Better yet, I think the government should take over your business, take away your livelihood, and force you to pay your employees better.  That way your workers will be better off.  Who gives a sh1t about you and your hard work and investment in your business?  Didn't you read what Moore said?

And don't bull#$%* us and tell us that you bought that Ford van new, either.  You're comparing apples-to-oranges.  I'll bet you didn't get the replacement transmission from Ford, either.  Probably a junkyard piece of #$%*, installed by a local idiot mechanic (or yourself).  Ok, so now let's hear about how Henry Ford himself climbed under your Econoline and installed that tranny for you.  Go ahead...

None of that changes the fact that taking businesses like GM & Chrysler who have owners (shareholders -- probably your parents and grandparents who coddled your sorry ass when you were sucking on nipples, and bailed you out of jail when you got busted smokin' dope) out of the hands of owners is communism, whether you like it or not.

Besides, governments have a LONG RECORD of farking-up businesses worse than any recession ever could.  Look at the entire British car and motorcycle industries, not to mention the majority of British manufacturing.  COMPLETELY NON-EXISTANT after the government took them over (for the sake of the workers).

You angry, short-sighted people need to get your heads out of your a$$es.  The American auto industry was thriving just a couple years ago.  Some ridiculously high oil prices drove them down through the #$%*ter, and drove our economy into a recession, so nobody is buying cars.  Americans LOVE SUVs.  Like it or not.  Just because you and I don't, doesn't mean that the majority of the AMERICAN PEOPLE don't.

As for American quality, all you need to do is look at JD Powers and you'll see that Ford quality matches that of Toyota today.

Good luck with your carpet cleaning.

who cares who wrote it. read it again and wake up america!  
our country is heading straight down the tubes if we the people continue to let corporate giants rape our system.
i agree with what he said. 100% !!!
 and dont you dare call me a communist.  i love this country.(edbikerii-when he says,"once the country is calling the shots" he is referring to the "country" as WE THE PEOPLE, not just the government. duh.)  
i work hard every day to build my little carpet cleaning business.  i pay my taxes.   and i'm sick and tired of giving my money to politicians and companies  who pi55 it away.  
i too ran my business with the use of a ford van for my first 5 years.   one day after paying for my 2nd ford van transmission i added up the gas and repairs over the past 5 years.   i could of bought a new van from that money alone.
i fixed the van and sold it.  took my hard earned money and down-sized to  honda elements.
in the past 3 years of using elements instead of f-150's ive saved enough money to go on vacation every winter.
all i put on the elements are tires, oil changes, and one windshield. I'm done with american crap cars. if they made a good product i'd use it.  but you honda people know this. after all this is not a harley-davidson forum.   honda owners are smart people.  wake up america, its time to sink or swim.
so go ahead and trash what i have to say, judge me by my silly photo on the left. call me what you want. sooner (i hope) then later you too will wake up.
-dan shotwell


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Offline nickjtc

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 08:39:05 AM »
Look at the entire British car and motorcycle industries, not to mention the majority of British manufacturing.  COMPLETELY NON-EXISTANT after the government took them over (for the sake of the workers).

Not wishing to stir the sh!t here, but  just to put the record straight the British Government never 'took over' or 'owned' either the car or motorcycle factories there. All they did was give the same loans and tax credits that the big 3 are asking for from the US government.
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eldar

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 08:55:18 AM »
ford matches toyota? HA what a load of BS!
Ed once again you resort to a personal attack about the character of a person. That alone shows what an assswipe you are. Your opinions are not worth the space they take up. You have completely cheapened yourself now and I hope no one ever takes you seriously on ANYTHING again.

You are the type of person that drags humanity and evolution back down.
I know you will whine and cry to the mods about this but so what. I will not delete it, I will not rescind my statements, even if it means getting banned.

Maybe you should remove your shiit covered glasses and see how the world really operates. Clearly you are still sore that mccain lost aren't you.

I am done with you as you are not worth a moment of anyones time.

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 09:18:36 AM »
  What are you trying to say Eldar?       ;D

Offline nickjtc

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 09:48:53 AM »
No really Eldar, tell us what you really think!! ;) ;)

Just to throw combustable material on to the flames of this discussion, I have a seat-of-the-pants observation of one. As a driver examiner I get to sit in all kinds, brands, ages and conditions of vehicles. When new, it's my observation that all modern vehicles are the same. Not being a car guy I look at each one for what it is: a box on wheels to keep the driver cool in the summer and warm and dry in the winter.

Fast forward to a vehicle that is 10 years old. Most Japanese iimports still sound 'tight', the doors shut with a satisfying 'clunk' and all of the peripheral electrics and what-not work. They also are fairly rust free unless they have had dings. The same cannot, unfortunately, be said for domestic cars and some of the European imports. Obviously if a person is going to change vehicles on a regular basis this is not a factor, but for us 'bottom feeders' it is huge.

I'm biased, but I'm going to say that my car is an exception. It is a '96 Geo Metro (made in Ontario, Canada, of Suzuki (?) components). It was cheap and is extremely frugal with a best mileage to date 62 mp(Imperial)g. Since my sons '97 Metro has 320,000km on it I am expecting it to last.

Thank you for your time. :)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 09:58:57 AM by nickjtc »
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2008, 10:34:47 AM »
Personal attack?  Here's a personal atack:  You commie bastards are a bunch of morons.

How's that?  Don't like it?  Too f'in bad.  I don't care.

I guess nobody remembers British Leyland and the #$%*-poor job then did when they nationalized Jaguar, MG, etc. etc.  No matter, those who don't know history are doomed to watch it repeat.  Too bad the rest of us are going to have to watch it ruin our children's futures, even though we know better.

I'm done arguing with you idiots.

Good luck, you're gonna need it.
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Offline bunghole

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2008, 10:45:05 AM »
I'm done arguing with you idiots.

Good luck, you're gonna need it.

No.  You're not.

And thanks!
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Offline nickjtc

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2008, 11:18:55 AM »
Personal attack?  Here's a personal atack:  You commie bastards are a bunch of morons.

No really Ed, tell us what you really think. ;) ;)
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Offline Demon67

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2008, 12:33:04 PM »
Ahh  Commie morons again ED well done. What's Bush by the way seeing he's trying to control goods and services.
Bill the demon

Offline BlindJoe

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2008, 01:06:33 PM »
Yaay!

[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Offline nickjtc

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2008, 02:26:49 PM »
Can I puke now?? ::)
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Offline tortelvis

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2008, 02:33:05 PM »
ford matches toyota? HA what a load of BS!
Ed once again you resort to a personal attack about the character of a person. That alone shows what an assswipe you are. Your opinions are not worth the space they take up. You have completely cheapened yourself now and I hope no one ever takes you seriously on ANYTHING again.

You are the type of person that drags humanity and evolution back down.
I know you will whine and cry to the mods about this but so what. I will not delete it, I will not rescind my statements, even if it means getting banned.

Maybe you should remove your shiit covered glasses and see how the world really operates. Clearly you are still sore that mccain lost aren't you.

I am done with you as you are not worth a moment of anyones time.

I have never taken anything he says seriously.

Offline number13

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2008, 03:46:02 PM »
ZOMG!!!

It's all over, Ed!
The workers have assumed control of the means
of production!

RUN!!!!!!!!

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Offline 333

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2008, 06:40:27 PM »
Not that I'm taking Ed's side on this.  I'm a GM guy, so Ford is not my fav.  And Toyota wasn't specifically mentioned, but I found this J.D. Power vehicle study done in 07 on 3 year owner reports of 04 cars;

Quote
The study, which measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old (2004 model year) vehicles, finds that Buick and Lexus tie for the top rank position with a score of 145 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100). Following in the top five rankings are Cadillac, Mercury and Honda, respectively.

3 U.S brands vs 2 Japanese brands.  The whole report;

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007130

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Offline volkswagendan

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2008, 07:46:33 PM »
 hey edbiker,
i could come on down to your level and light you up. trust me. your kind is all too easy.
truth is i feel bad for you.(and dont ask me why. i'm done with you.)  i'm here to learn about my bike and make friends.
so take care of yourself and enjoy your life.
later.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 07:56:06 PM by volkswagendan »
don't take me too seriously.

Offline Aaron J Williams

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2008, 08:07:08 PM »
Warning! The following is an attempt to illustrate absurdity by being absurd, read at your own risk!


Quote from: number13
The workers have assumed control of the means of production!
Quote from: THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
CHICAGO — The nation’s grim economy has a rallying point: Employees at a window-and-door factory that went out of business have taken over the building in a siege that has come to symbolize the woes of the ordinary worker. With vocal support from President-elect Barack Obama, the union assigns some employees to clean the factory and make sure it’s safe. Others take in food donations brought to the door and some are huddled around a fire in a garbage can.
So how many windows and doors have they produced since they took over?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 08:11:41 PM by Aaron J Williams »
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Offline Tower

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Re: Whether or not this was written by Michael Moore....
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2008, 12:10:24 AM »
Folks, its really about only one thing - quality of life.  The auto industry in the USA was once responsible for improving that.  They are now responsible for denegrading it.   Sticking to an ideology, at the expense of common sense and quality of life is foolish.

Since fear has its icey grip firmly around the shorts of Americans, the conditions are ripe for exploitation of this fear by today's robber barons (read: Chiefs of out of control large corporations).  Syphoning funds into "Homeland Security" is one example where money is diverted into who knows where.  The war in Iraq, another.  Bailing out the richest at the expense of the rest, is another.

Globalization, the new world order, is the mechanism that will have Americans working for the Chinese pretty soon.  You were asleep when that happened, right?  No, Americans lost control of these things long ago.  Global corporations run the show now. They make policy and decisions.

Taking out the trash is long overdue - getting rid of things that don't work anymore.  Instead Americans  should use the incredible innovative and entrepreneurial drive that they are famous for - to bring it all home again.

Invest in New technologies, infrastructure, Education, Space exploration, Energy innovation, Real health (not drugs)...anything but GM. 

Profit and work should stay in the USA.  Spending should be on USA goods and services -ONLY.  But you have to be discriminating.  Is shopping/spending king?, is the lowest price king? Even if that means taking jobs from Americans?  Most Americans think so.  They have chosen to sell out, and they think the giving GM 9x what its worth on the market will make it all better.  If you can't control yourself and must spend on foreign goods, then you are lost.  Government and legislation can help, after all it is aupposed to be controlled by "The People".

How?  Force your government to put you first and not the corporations, by taking away their right to offshore work. Remove their right as "persons" under the law, so they can't use that right to defend corrupt, greedy, offensive actions.  Then use these corporations to improve the life of Americans by mandating social responsibility, American home values, and domestic labour.  Why are companies allowed to be owned by offshore interests?  Does this make sense to anyone except those who stand to make obsene profit by it.  Instead, focus these large companies on the projects that Americans need, not on what makes their Chiefs rich.  Democracy has nothing to do with making a very few people rich, it has everything to do with improving the quality of life of the majority.

For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would defend the right of mega-millionaires to demand free money from taxpayers.  Its quite a perversion of the original concept of corporate mandates that placed service to the community above all else, to have this happen.  INHO, GM is the poster child for this perverse evolution or corporate-think.