Author Topic: Getting rid of a battery, have you tried this trick? (Read 15582 times)

L.A. Nomad........ · « **on:** September 27, 2005, 07:10:21 PM »

I'm told this would work on a CB350 twin, but wondering if it would work on a inline 4 SOHC. I'm think about my 76 CB550.
I'm told if you take a starter relay or soelnoid(my spelling sucks) off a older British and connect it to your battery (-)(+), you can get rid of the battery! You'll have to have a kickstart lever on your bike to make it happen. The relay holds a charge that will start your bike. I'm told this would work because of the really good charging systems the hondas have.

My battery is crap and barely holds a charge. But once the bike starts, it puts out really good power! Has anyone ever tried this?

douglascoolgrey · « **Reply #1 on:** September 27, 2005, 07:22:27 PM »

What about headlights and blinkers?

L.A. Nomad........ · « **Reply #2 on:** September 27, 2005, 07:25:27 PM »

See thats a good question, thats why I'm asking too!

Nomad

ddrink · « **Reply #3 on:** September 27, 2005, 07:28:42 PM »

Is there any reason you would want to get rid of your battery other than it's crap? If not why not just get a new battery?

Dennis · « **Reply #4 on:** September 27, 2005, 08:14:55 PM »

SOHC4's need a battery.
This has been discussed previously, search the archives if you are interested in the technical details.
You're just going to have to buy a battery!!

L.A. Nomad........ · « **Reply #5 on:** September 27, 2005, 09:15:23 PM »

Ha hA hA!!!!!!!

It's not about buying another battery, but about dropping weight. I thinking more of less! A cafe street bike later down the road, but not having to spend a fortune making one! Making my own...............

Nomad

bistromath · « **Reply #6 on:** September 27, 2005, 10:40:11 PM »

I can't imagine a relay would store enough charge to start the field coil working, unless the surge suppression capacitor across the relay windings is truly enormous. I'm not an expert, but that seems unlikely. There are people out there selling "Battery Eliminators", though, which are just large capacitors to achieve the same effect. That said, just buy a battery -- there's really no advantage other than the eight pounds you save in not having one. Just quit hitting the taco stand at 4am for a month and you'll be there anyway.

Dennis · « **Reply #7 on:** September 27, 2005, 11:22:26 PM »

Quote from: bistromath on September 27, 2005, 10:40:11 PM

...... There are people out there selling "Battery Eliminators", though, which are just large capacitors to achieve the same effect. That said, just buy a battery -- there's really no advantage other than the eight pounds you save in not having one. Just quit hitting the taco stand at 4am for a month and you'll be there anyway.

Battery Eliminators DO NOT work on alternators like the SOHC4's have. He must buy a battery. Now, no one said that it couldn't be a smaller battery than original equipment, especially if he is willing to give up the electric start.

TwoTired · « **Reply #8 on:** September 27, 2005, 11:26:08 PM »

The CB550 alternator will not make any power unless there is a magnetic field for the stator.
There is no permanent magnet in the alternator, so...
This magnetic field is created by the field coil being energized from the battery.
Once the field is excited and the engine is spinning, it makes far more power than it uses from the battery. But, without the magnetic field, to get the process going, it makes no power.

The coils need power to make plugs ignite the fuel.

To operate the CB550 without a battery would require adaptation of a permanent magnet into the alternator where the field coil usually resides. And, it will have to make way more power than the current design at idle to run all the lighting and the coils.

Cheers,

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 28, 2005, 12:07:54 AM »

A starter relay replacing the battery will not work, but a flux capacitor will. If you want to save weight, drill out all those things that are full of heavy iron, like the frame, handlebars and brake shoes. Remove the blinkers and use your arms to indicate turns. Fill the wheels with helium, and replace those heavy spokes for drinking straws.

Raul

Harry · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2005, 12:13:44 AM »

FYI Some of these comments have been copied to the FAQ

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2005, 12:41:26 AM »

Quote from: Harry on September 28, 2005, 12:13:44 AM

FYI Some of these comments have been copied to the FAQ

FAQ's are like instructions manuals, is the thing to read when you can't guess for yourself and have found nobody to give you hints. This forum is starting to look like running or parenting magazines, the same questions are answered for new people every few months...

Raul

P.S: I have to saythat this site's FAQ section is a great read, as you will find a lot of useful info on your way for the answers you are looking for.

bike54 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2005, 02:03:04 AM »

i find the faqs very useful and have got into the habit of checking them every time i do some thing new on the old girl they have stoped a lot of head scratching and posts from me

merv

L.A. Nomad........ · « **Reply #13 on:** September 28, 2005, 08:42:45 AM »

My loose understanding was that the relay starter/ soelnoind from an old brit bike norton/triumph acts like a capacitor.
I'm told it holds an electrical charge, it's the kind that has oil in it to keep it cool. Normal mounted on a spring/coil like bracket.

Eddie A

jaannaktin · « **Reply #14 on:** September 28, 2005, 12:12:45 PM »

Quote from: Raul CB750K1 on September 28, 2005, 12:41:26 AM

This forum is starting to look like running or parenting magazines, the same questions are answered for new people every few months...

Quote

I think the point is that there are at least 500 new members since I have joined (around 1000) -- it is the new questions that keep you old farts on your toes. The FAQ actually can become outdated or incomplete. For example, the tire thread that just started about posting pictures of bikes with their tires wouldn't have started out of a boring old skim of FAQ.

Stay awake out there, you OLD TIMERS! I've got some prune juice and geritol if you are having trouble getting off your "butty" to answer the questions!

eldar · « **Reply #15 on:** September 28, 2005, 01:13:45 PM »

I thnk it is nice to keep these going. If everything went to faq, then no one would come here to chat or just have a good time. This would be a boring site and not many would become members. It is the interaction we all have that keeps attracting new people.

MetalHead550 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 28, 2005, 01:36:25 PM »

Quote

A starter relay replacing the battery will not work, but a flux capacitor will.

It will also give you the ability to travel through time and leave giant flaming burnouts if you reach 88mph. Look out for your horny teenage mom!...and Biff.

TwoTired · « **Reply #17 on:** September 28, 2005, 02:11:19 PM »

Quote from: L.A. Nomad........ on September 28, 2005, 08:42:45 AM

My loose understanding was that the relay starter/ soelnoind from an old brit bike norton/triumph acts like a capacitor.
I'm told it holds an electrical charge, it's the kind that has oil in it to keep it cool. Normal mounted on a spring/coil like bracket.

Eddie A

Yes, a capacitor will hold an electrical charge. But, they aren't perfect and slowly bleed stored energy, even if unconnected. Where will the charge come from initially? Where will it be generated? How long will the capacitor provide the 1.6A at 12 volts needed by the alternator field coil to create the initial magnetic field (and the 5 amps for the ignition coils). Can you kickstart the engine at 2500 RPM so the alternator can overcome the bike electrical loads and put energy back into the capacitor? Can you do this before the capacitor drains?

I'm thinking you'll need a capacitor the size of...

...the battery, or perhaps bigger.

Cheers,

L.A. Nomad........ · « **Reply #18 on:** September 28, 2005, 02:58:12 PM »

I was think of just turning the key off , then kicking it over a few times. This would recharge it, again I'm told this would work for a CB350 twin. It was just a thought! Just wondering if anyone else here has tried this before?

Nomad

low-side · « **Reply #19 on:** September 28, 2005, 06:28:23 PM »

Permanent magnet charging systems (like the 350) don't need as much juice to work. In fact, I've seen a few really well maintained bikes with pm charging systems start without a battery. The fours have a large field coil to create the magnetic field, basically large electromagnets that require a fair amount of juice to operate. Even with a large capacitor, it would be a pain to ride. Every time you dropped below 2500 rpm the capacitor would discharge, and if this happened at a light in traffic you'd never get it started again. The alternative would be to never let it go below that, which would be somewhat dangerous in low traction or heavy traffic situations. It could be done, but there are probably better ways to lose weight. A set of mags would save more, a four into one system, ect. would work toward your goal of cafe racer while still being streetable.

chrometank · « **Reply #20 on:** September 28, 2005, 06:29:03 PM »

you could have a look at this http://battery-eliminator.com/

cheers

Dennis · « **Reply #21 on:** September 28, 2005, 06:49:17 PM »

Quote from: chrometank on September 28, 2005, 06:29:03 PM

you could have a look at this http://battery-eliminator.com/

cheers

ONE MORE TIME -----

DOES NOT WORK ON CHARGING SYSTEMS OF THE TYPE USED ON SOHC4 BIKES

You need a battery.
"caps intentional"

Alan F. · « **Reply #22 on:** September 28, 2005, 07:08:24 PM »

There are lighter more modern batteries available, anyone using one?

chrometank · « **Reply #23 on:** September 28, 2005, 08:38:48 PM »

sorry dennis,didnt mean to upset you.It was just a link to the battery eliminator people were mentioning.I made no comment on suitability for sohc or not.Asprin,a cup of tea and a nice lie down might be in order

Dennis · « **Reply #24 on:** September 28, 2005, 11:34:22 PM »

Quote from: chrometank on September 28, 2005, 08:38:48 PM

sorry dennis,didnt mean to upset you.It was just a link to the battery eliminator people were mentioning.I made no comment on suitability for sohc or not.Asprin,a cup of tea and a nice lie down might be in order

Sorry there Chrometank. I (obviously) mistakenly interpreted that as a recommendation of the product for use on these bikes. I've been extremely stressed out for most of the summer and ..... well, I really can't get into that on a public forum. Anyway, really didn't intend to pounce on you personally, just don't want people here (who don't understand electricals) to spend their money on items that will not work on their bikes.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll bypass the aspirin, cup of tea and go straight to a nice stiff drink and maybe then the "nice lie down"
Unfortunately that's the only way I can deal with "life" these days.

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Author Topic: Getting rid of a battery, have you tried this trick? (Read 15582 times)

douglascoolgrey

bike54

jaannaktin

eldar

MetalHead550

low-side