Author Topic: Getting rid of a battery, have you tried this trick? (Read 15730 times)

TwoTired · « **Reply #50 on:** September 30, 2005, 07:02:53 PM »

The CB550 Alternator is rated for 150 watts
150 watts = 0.2010724 horsepower [electric]

But, this conversion relies on physics. Which has recently been reclassified as a variable by a very important and respected person on this forum. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

So, you will probably realize HUNDREDS of actual horsepower in the alternate reality where he lives.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I gotta stop...my sides hurt.

Well, it's almost funny...

bistromath · « **Reply #51 on:** September 30, 2005, 07:17:41 PM »

C'mon Two, give it a rest, we're all friends here, nobody's trying to pick on you. Like I said, a fraction of an HP.... it also lightens the crank so it revs up quicker. Lots of racers run total loss systems.

chrometank · « **Reply #52 on:** September 30, 2005, 08:59:51 PM »

Ilm with you quail ,i gotta do some exercise.This thread has got people really hot under the collar for some reason.The electricians at work are a bit stressed out, i wonder if its something to do with all that thinking.................

eldar · « **Reply #53 on:** September 30, 2005, 09:01:29 PM »

I have seen the total loss as well and if there was no gain to be had, they would not do it. Magnetos also offer another option, they will run a headlight and tail light. I did that on my old 100cc yamaha enduro. You of course just have to make sure the magneto can produce the power. It is usually a lighter system than an alternator too.

Do we all need to go into the physics history again to see how many times man was wrong in the past? I suppose only for those who think nothing ever changes. Ii suppose we all know people like that, who are too unbending to even consider the idea. Too bad, they only slow down new discoveries.

eldar · « **Reply #54 on:** September 30, 2005, 09:13:44 PM »

My final say is to try whatever you want. It is your bike and no one can tell you what to do with it. If you want to try something, do it. Dont let people tell you no. It is the spirit of invention that produces breakthroughs, not hiding behind old information.

You want to do something different, more power to you. Maybe someday if I get a junker 750, I might do a trike conversion to it. While some would not like that......it would be original and it would be mine.

Your bike belongs to you, no one else.

If you want to experiment, I support you fully, just dont kill yourself! If you do not want to change anything, there is nothing wrong with stock.
IT IS YOUR DECISION, NO ONE ELSES!. After all, it was experimentation that produced our bikes and all the amazing things they can still do.

Quail "Owner of the comfortable k8" · « **Reply #55 on:** September 30, 2005, 10:59:44 PM »

Eldar My K8 is faster than your K8!

Ill keep the battery and the weight.

If I wanted to make up for it with HP I will juice the gas and watch the head temp. That way I can put my sissy bar on after the race and ride home with my wife in tow.

If someone wants to shave weight, throw out that cast iron frame and build a frame that would weigh 30 lb less. Drop 1 quart of oil and toss that armor plated oil tank. Build a thinwall alum finned tank that would really cool the oil. there goes 5 more lbs.

1/4 inch drill and a brain. you could chuck 10 more lbs. 1 lb just on the flywheel.

Don't hate me just because I am beautiful... I meant right.

francisew · « **Reply #56 on:** April 25, 2007, 02:09:09 PM »

I had no clue that the alternator didn't have a permanent magnet... brilliant design choice for longevity of the part!

That's really enlightening. Now I know why I can't push start my bike (electric starter only) when the battery is totally dead.

Francis

Quote from: TwoTired on September 27, 2005, 11:26:08 PM

The CB550 alternator will not make any power unless there is a magnetic field for the stator.
There is no permanent magnet in the alternator, so...
This magnetic field is created by the field coil being energized from the battery.
Once the field is excited and the engine is spinning, it makes far more power than it uses from the battery. But, without the magnetic field, to get the process going, it makes no power.

The coils need power to make plugs ignite the fuel.

To operate the CB550 without a battery would require adaptation of a permanent magnet into the alternator where the field coil usually resides. And, it will have to make way more power than the current design at idle to run all the lighting and the coils.

Cheers,

johnny-from-bel · « **Reply #57 on:** April 25, 2007, 03:18:58 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on September 30, 2005, 07:02:53 PM

The CB550 Alternator is rated for 150 watts
150 watts = 0.2010724 horsepower [electric]

But, this conversion relies on physics. Which has recently been reclassified as a variable by a very important and respected person on this forum. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

So, you will probably realize HUNDREDS of actual horsepower in the alternate reality where he lives.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I gotta stop...my sides hurt.

Well, it's almost funny...

Just to nitpic, the yield of these alternators is about 50% so to produce 150W it will use 300W of mechanical energy about 0.4 HP.

Now how about replacing the battery with NiMH batteries. My daughters electric bike runs of 2 24V 9AH NiMH batteries.
If you do not use an electic starter 2 or 3 AH would do, no ?

ic455 · « **Reply #58 on:** April 25, 2007, 03:21:17 PM »

How about a modification to a stun gun? My buddy used to have a stun gun the size of a 2AA Maglite that used one very small specialty battery(can't remember what kind, but it had no more power than a D cell, I'm sure) anyway, using this small battery and internal electronics that I have no understanding of, it generated something like 10,000 volts. Just check out one of the regular palm sized 2 prong stun guns and see what kind of battery it has in it, then check the delivered voltage at the prongs. Of course, that doesn't help with sustained discharge for lighting, running, etc., but it seems like it'd sure as heck start a bike.
TwoTired and Eldar, you guys each have a great wealth of knowledge, and I'm sure everyone has benefited from your posts as much as I have. Eldar, the laws of physics do indicate that this whole thing is impossible, but as we all know, laws were made to be broken

johnny-from-bel · « **Reply #59 on:** April 25, 2007, 03:30:41 PM »

Speaking of physics.

Lights of the bike needs to power :

- The Field coil of the alternator, some 3 Amps
- The ignition coils, some 4 Amps

It takes 10 minutes to start the bike with the kickstarter. Thats 7 Amps during 10 minutes. Thats 1.2 AH.
A NiMH 'D' cell will deliver 2.5AH. There 1.2V so 10 of them in series should do the trick.

number13 · « **Reply #60 on:** April 25, 2007, 03:40:47 PM »

Sooo...anybody seen this today?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-750-Performance-charging-system-chopper-cafe_W0QQitemZ130105977742QQihZ003QQcategoryZ35594QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

"New Cycle X Charging System!
* Single phase system allows battery or battery less operation. ( call for details ) * Rotor weighs only 1.640 lb's for high rev potential * 14 amp system * Kick only ( who needs a button anyway ) * Complete system weighs over 8 lbs less than a OEM system. Note: Honda's 3 phase field excited charging will create a magnetic pull when the regulator tells it. This magnetic pull can reduce horsepower ( sometimes 2 horsepower ) Reduced rotating weight and less magnetic pull makes the Cycle X charging system the best choice. Kit includes: * 1.640 lb rotor * 14 amp stator ( single phase ) and adaptor plate * Crankshaft oil block-off sleeve ( Kick only ) * Crankshaft spacer. * Starter hole block-off plug with fitting ( wires come out of this location) * Solid state regulator-rectifier ( Made in USA ) * Gasket * Instructions"

DISCLOSURE: I am not affiliated with this company, just passin' it along.

paulages · « **Reply #61 on:** April 25, 2007, 05:35:37 PM »

i'lll believe it when i see it functioning. awesome if it works.

eldar · « **Reply #62 on:** April 26, 2007, 09:34:10 AM »

Well I dont see why it would not work. I mean there are a lot of bikes out there, notably enduro style, that use magnetos so they can run without a battery. I had an old yamaha that had a long dead battery in it and the magneto kept everything going and powered the lights and all. There has been an ard magneto floating around here. Also, if the magnet is permanent, it will generate anytime the rotor is spun but the down side is that you cant control the voltage as much. Or should I say the magnetic field never changes.

johnny-from-bel · « **Reply #63 on:** April 26, 2007, 09:41:21 AM »

Quote from: eldar, Master of the K8 Thunder! on April 26, 2007, 09:34:10 AM

Well I dont see why it would not work. I mean there are a lot of bikes out there, notably enduro style, that use magnetos so they can run without a battery. I had an old yamaha that had a long dead battery in it and the magneto kept everything going and powered the lights and all. There has been an ard magneto floating around here. Also, if the magnet is permanent, it will generate anytime the rotor is spun but the down side is that you cant control the voltage as much. Or should I say the magnetic field never changes.

My XL125 would run without the battery. It had a magneto. My 750 does not even start without a battery as the alternator field coil needs it to power up. That is the whole point.

You can reduce the battery capacity by as much as you like als long as you have enough amps for the alternator. Once it runs as sufficient RPM . The battery serves mainly as reference for the voltage regulator.

eldar · « **Reply #64 on:** April 26, 2007, 10:06:51 AM »

Well I know that. Our alts do not have perm magnets. So it requires juice. The one on ebay looks to either be magneto (which I dont think it is) or have a perm mag in it. But if you put a magneto on a 750, it would probably start with a kick.

dusterdude · « **Reply #65 on:** April 26, 2007, 12:10:22 PM »

all a magneto (ard,joe hunt,mallory,etc.) does is start the bike and keep the ignition going,its main benefit other than not needing a battery to run is,the mag puts out more amps as the rpm is increased.the cycle-x deal is a permanent magnet alternator.

eldar · « **Reply #66 on:** April 26, 2007, 01:34:18 PM »

I know terry in Oz had an ard. I cant remember if he ever got it to work though.

adams77 · « **Reply #67 on:** April 27, 2007, 06:48:18 PM »

A lot of bikes have an aftermarket for magnetos. Look at the XS650s, they have the same thing in kit form. Even I swapped in a magneto setup from a IT400 into my XS.....no more battery.

It has been done before, and it will be reinvented every decade or so. Kick only is cool now.

when they get older it will not be so cool

jerimiah797 · « **Reply #68 on:** September 22, 2008, 01:03:00 PM »

I've heard of people using the small 12V battery out of emergency hallway lights for under-seat battery relocation. You will lose your electric start I think, but it's a good way to clear out that rear triangle (along with relocating the other electrics such as the regulator /rectifier / fusebox, and ditching the starter solenoid) for a more stripped down cafe look... Here's a good example:
http://www.benjiescaferacer.com/pinas550.html

-Jerimiah

Tower · « **Reply #69 on:** September 22, 2008, 01:45:14 PM »

My daughters moped has a magneto - three coils sum to about 60W. Can be upgraded to about 120W by replacing two of the tiny coils with the larger variety.

So what if the bike had dual systems? The existing one slightly downsized plus a tiny magneto just larger enough to start the bike? Maybe even a tiny clutch to disengage the magneto at, say 2000 rpm, if the 1/3 hp mag was too much of a burden or the alternator at say 3000 rpm in favour of mag only - whichever was better?

Now the bike could start using the mag and keep running using the alternator - weight would be about the same especially if the alt coils were downsized slightly...voila

JS550 · « **Reply #70 on:** September 22, 2008, 02:35:17 PM »

If you plan on a cafe, you can relocate the battery under the tail section.

MJL · « **Reply #71 on:** September 22, 2008, 05:30:13 PM »

Look at the these bikes. He did a pretty good job of hiding the battery.

kayaker43 · « **Reply #72 on:** September 22, 2008, 08:44:50 PM »

I also want a lightweight kick only system with minimal lights. The ebay auction was pulled, anybody have more info on the CycleX system?

Check out the new Dewalt cordless drills, they use 10 cell "A123 batteries (google them) and can be reconfigured into 4 cell packs to give you 13.2 volts and 3.2 AH. You can parallel another 4-6 or 8 cells to get 6.4Ah, 9.6 AH or 12.8 AH.

You could use a tiny 4 cell, 3.2AH pack if you eliminate the starter. Even a 16 cel (4 series, 4 parallel) pack will weigh half what a stock battery weighs and is much smaller but pretty expensive.

The good news about A123 batteries is that they will charge off the stock system unlike NIMH or lipo's.

We need someone smarter than me to design a good light racing system. Maybe use a small permanent magnet rotor off a 4 stroke dirt bike with enough charging output to keep a 3.2AH A123 battery charged. This would power only the coils. Maybe even an LED tail light, and a very low wattage headlight bulb to make it barely legal. Kickstart or bumpstart of course.

paulages · « **Reply #73 on:** September 23, 2008, 12:20:50 AM »

Quote from: kayaker43 on September 22, 2008, 08:44:50 PM

I also want a lightweight kick only system with minimal lights. The ebay auction was pulled, anybody have more info on the CycleX system?

Check out the new Dewalt cordless drills, they use 10 cell "A123 batteries (google them) and can be reconfigured into 4 cell packs to give you 13.2 volts and 3.2 AH. You can parallel another 4-6 or 8 cells to get 6.4Ah, 9.6 AH or 12.8 AH.

You could use a tiny 4 cell, 3.2AH pack if you eliminate the starter. Even a 16 cel (4 series, 4 parallel) pack will weigh half what a stock battery weighs and is much smaller but pretty expensive.

The good news about A123 batteries is that they will charge off the stock system unlike NIMH or lipo's.

We need someone smarter than me to design a good light racing system. Maybe use a small permanent magnet rotor off a 4 stroke dirt bike with enough charging output to keep a 3.2AH A123 battery charged. This would power only the coils. Maybe even an LED tail light, and a very low wattage headlight bulb to make it barely legal. Kickstart or bumpstart of course.

that charging system is for sale on cyclex's website. i need to call ken tomorrow about something else- i'll inquire about it.

i'm using a sealed 12V 5AH battery right now, which is less than half the size of a regular wet cell battery, and much much lighter. i'm kick only, but i have had no problems with it at all. cost $20 at a local auto battery shop.

eimkeith · « **Reply #74 on:** January 04, 2009, 06:52:52 AM »

News:

Author Topic: Getting rid of a battery, have you tried this trick? (Read 15730 times)

eldar

eldar

johnny-from-bel

johnny-from-bel

eldar

johnny-from-bel

eldar

eldar

jerimiah797