Author Topic: rear springs  (Read 1126 times)

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Offline Irk11

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rear springs
« on: December 22, 2008, 09:32:37 PM »
Hey, any one know the rear spring rates for a stock 550? Would like to change them out for a trick pair of adjustable carrera's but need a starting point. Thanks!
Ride hard,chicks dig scars!

Offline bwaller

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Re: rear springs
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 06:29:05 AM »
Don't hold this as gospel, but I seem to recall those spring being 120lbs. And as been stated before, all the original shocks did was hold the springs in place.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: rear springs
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2008, 04:37:18 PM »
I measured one of my old 550 springs when I got new Boge ones, as the new ones were way too stiff.  As I see it, you want the shock riding position to be at about 2/3 total travel of the shock travel.  Turns increase G load and make the spring "squat".  But, you don't want them fully extended in cruise, either.

I used my bathroom scale to indicate poundage and put the spring into installed and compressed height to find the "weight" of the spring.

Stock used CB550 Spring      Total shock travel =   2.5   inches            
uncompressed Length   8.5"               
                                                                   Spring Height @ 200Lbs/ 250Lbs/275Lbs/ 300Lbs
                                                    v  Travel v                            6.250"   /5.750"   /5.438"   /5.250"
minimum preload   50 Lbs @ 7 5/8 inches         7 5/8" - 5 1/8"   % Compressed>   55   75   85   95
max preload      107Lbs @ 7 1/8 inches   7 1/8" - 4 5/8"      % Compressed>  35      55     65     75

Sorry, if the text formating is difficult.  I don't know how to convert from Xcel gracefully.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Irk11

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Re: rear springs
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 04:55:19 PM »
Thanks for all the info, so does that mean that the stock springs are of a progessive rate? Meaning, the more it travels, the stiffer the spring gets.
Ride hard,chicks dig scars!

Offline Ecosse

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Re: rear springs
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2008, 05:11:14 PM »
If I'm not mistaken one can tell progressive springs by the way the coils decrease in distance from each other at the end of their winding.

That, and they are for gay marriage....  :D :D I made a funny, get it? Progressive?!!

But seriously constant rate springs have equally spaced coils.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: rear springs
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2008, 06:19:11 PM »
I see you've latched on to a marketing buzz word.  Yes, the stock springs are progressive.

Evenly spaced spring coils store increasing amounts of energy as they are compressed, until they are fully compressed (coils touching each other) at which time storage accumulation stops abruptly as well as motion.  The amount of energy to compress increases at a more or less linear rate.

How to Determine Rate For Compression Springs

Rate which is the change in load per unit deflection, may be determined by the following procedure:

   1. Deflect spring to approximately 20 percent of available deflection and measure load (P1) and spring length (L1).
   2. Deflect spring to approximately 80 percent of available deflection and measure load (P2) and spring length (L2). Be certain that no coils (other than closed ends) are touching L2.
   3. Calculate rate (R) lb./in. (N/mm)
      R = (P2 - P1) / (L1 - L2)

Unevenly spaced coils (assuming total wire rod length is equal), store the same energy until the closer spaced coils begin to make contact with one another, this shortens the wire rod length and begins to require an increased rate of energy to cause further compression of the coil spring. This is the progressive portion of the non-uniformly wound coil spring.  And, the spring rate changes during this compression extreme.

The stock spring uses these progressive properties to resit hitting hard stops during bottoming out operations and to ease the damage or loads on the rubber snubbers that are part of the shock absorber.

It is possible to design springs (also progressive) to require higher energy storage while in high G load turns.  Meaning they are designed to begin "stacking the coils" sooner in the load energy accumulation graph.  This would be beneficial to keep the swing arm from bottoming and causing tire contact deformation.  The stock spring does do this to some degree but is not very compliant to uneven road surfaces while at this compression point.

A progressive spring should have more than one spring rate spec.  One applied to "normal" travel, and another for progressive rate increase, as well as, at what total compression height it becomes progressive.

But, no one in marketing and sales wants to explain all that (and few wish to give it that much thought), hence "progressive" becomes the end all explanation with all the ancillary connotations it conjures up in the uneducated consumer.  It is such a good sounding word, isn't it?  ;D

Cheers,






Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Ecosse

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Re: rear springs
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2008, 07:02:49 PM »
TT, you've forced me to dust off, and I do mean dust, some old suspension and race books. I'm so rusty, I was never an engineer anyway, and your explanations have piqued my interest.

Books:
Engineer To Win, Carroll Smith

Inside Racing Technology, Haney & Braun

Auto Math, John Lawlor

Some of this stuff is enough to make the little gerbil in my head fall off his wheel but these books help as a primer.

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Offline Irk11

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Re: rear springs
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2008, 08:51:16 PM »
Great post, I can see there are some "thinkers" on this board! Ecosse, great tag line about the hooker! While I'm not exactly trying to outfit the "working women" of the world, I happen to have a few shocks left over from my years of racing, so it is more like a $25 shock on a $450 cb550. The thing I like about these shocks, are that they have a coil over kit on them, so I will be able to adjust the ride height by about 3" without moving any shock mounts. I have about 20 springs with rates from 100# up to 300#, so it will be alot of fun playing with it to dial it all in. Thanks for all the info!
Ride hard,chicks dig scars!

Offline Ecosse

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Re: rear springs
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2008, 09:52:33 PM »
Irk11, I'll be interested in your results. Hey, why not experiment with what ya have? When I have the time I'm going to take a refresher on suspension 101... well, 98 anyway.

As if I don't have enough to do. ::)
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