Topic: Is this set of 750 cases now trash?

[Brantley]

I took these to my local machinist to have a crack welded and asked to have them bead blasted, thinking he would not blast the bearing journals and mating surfaces. Well, he did. Do I have anything to worry about? Can I clean the surfaces well and start reassembly or should I have 'em turned into Coke cams?

[dave400]

Did the guy plug the oil holes before he cleaned the cases?

[Brantley]

No.

[dave400]

What a plonker!!!!!    make sure you clean all the oil journals if you decide they are not going to be the next batch if coke cans.

[seaweb11]

Fill up the bath tub

[Geeto67]

I didn't know coke had cams - is it a hot 3/4 street cam? ok kidding about your typos aside....

the bigger concern is that if the oil passages were not plugged before blasting you are going to have a lot of junk in there that once you reassemble your engine is going to be in your oil - ie your engine will not last very long at all.

As far as the finish is concerned, any machine shop can put a machined finish back on the areas necessary, in this case it is probably not as necessary with the main crank journals of the block as they are designed to hold a shell bearing in place. If I were you I would take the cases to a machine shop anyway just to make sure all the journals line up with each other.

[WHALEMAN]

I believe what you are asking is after the bearing shell areas and the mating surfaces have been blasted can you fit a bearing that will have the correct clearance. I can only guess that not that much material was removed and I would try the bearing shell called for by the case and crank first and see how it plasticgauges. You can always order the next tighter bearing shell. Why on earth would someone blast the inside. As for cleaning the oil passages it will be hard but not impossible. Since I have been in and connected with the restaurant business for 30 years I wash cases in big commercial dishwashers and they come out perfect. I think you will be OK but wait for M Rieck's answer to be sure. Dan

[Brantley]

Fill up the bath tub

So's I can play battleship and drop my new anchor?

[bunghole]

I'm not sure if my guy plugged my oil passages, so I took it to the self serve car wash and blasted the hell out of it.  I also fully submerged it in a filled bathtub with soapy water and let it soak.  Then I rinsed at it and took the air gun to all the passages.  I also ran small brushes in anything I could.  I think you'll be alright, but it can never be too clean, so take your time.

[Brantley]

I didn't know coke had cams - is it a hot 3/4 street cam? ok kidding about your typos aside....

Yeah- Right now it's nicknamed "the Polar Bear"  

I believe what you are asking is after the bearing shell areas and the mating surfaces have been blasted can you fit a bearing that will have the correct clearance.

Pretty much. I really am not that worried about the oil passages as I sort of had the same idea 'bout a commercial dishwasher, and I'm meticulous about cleaning things that can't be seen. My house is a different story...

[Zig]

I believe what you are asking is after the bearing shell areas and the mating surfaces have been blasted can you fit a bearing that will have the correct clearance. I can only guess that not that much material was removed and I would try the bearing shell called for by the case and crank first and see how it plasticgauges. You can always order the next tighter bearing shell. Why on earth would someone blast the inside. As for cleaning the oil passages it will be hard but not impossible. Since I have been in and connected with the restaurant business for 30 years I wash cases in big commercial dishwashers and they come out perfect. I think you will be OK but wait for M Rieck's answer to be sure. Dan

Dishwasher?? Thats a great idea!! I just went in and measured ours, it fits!! Now if i can get her out of the house for a coupla hours......she is still pissed about the time i put the barrels from my triumph in the oven (baked enamel finish and still perfect).

[MRieck]

Not taping off the upper mains does suck but it is not impossible to clean out. Rmove the main galley plug and blow it out with high pressure air. After that run plenty of soap and water down it and use a long round brush down it. There automative ones that work well. Blow it out a lot through the caps and main galley. If you can get a long wand for the air that would be great. It will be OK...... just repeat the process. Don't worry about the lower case....I have blasted those many times on many different engines. Don't worry....they are not scrap.

[754]

If anything changed, I think the shells would be tighter, not looser, as the surface is raised.


Plastigage on assembly.

[Brantley]

Not taping off the upper mains does suck but it is not impossible to clean out. Rmove the main galley plug and blow it out with high pressure air. After that run plenty of soap and water down it and use a long round brush down it. There automative ones that work well. Blow it out a lot through the caps and main galley. If you can get a long wand for the air that would be great. It will be OK...... just repeat the process. Don't worry about the lower case....I have blasted those many times on many different engines. Don't worry....they are not scrap.

This is sorta what I wanted to hear. Is the main galley plug the one on the front with a flathead fitting or the one on the right where folks mount a pressure gauge? As I said I'm not really worried about cleaning the media from the oil passages; that WILL happen. I am more concerned with if the case halves and cylinder base (and other mating surfaces) will weep and if I can install main (and tranny) bearings on non machined surfaces.

   
Re: Is this set of 750 cases now trash?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2008, 10:21:19 pm »
Quote
If anything changed, I think the shells would be tighter, not looser, as the surface is raised.


Plastigage on assembly.

One step ahead, 754. Plastigauged before the initial trip to the machinist and all was well within tolerance so I was planning on replacing the mains with the same color (I have to check my notes to be sure which). I really don't want to spend over a bill to find out I need a different size.

[WHALEMAN]

I believe he is referring to the plug on the left side of the big main tube where on the right side the gauges mount. If you take a long rod and run it in that passage from the right side and push on the shiny round plug on the left side it will push right out. Just an o-ring holding it in. Dan

[754]

So what i am saying is re-install the original bearings and pastiguage, BEFORE you order new ones, JUST IN CASE the clearance tightened up from surface being raised by blasting.

It would not  be a bad idea to tap that galley pug from the  e-start side, with a 6mm or 1/4 inch tap but not right thru, then can easily be removed to allow cleanout when engine is apart ...6mm means your engine cover bolts can be used to pull it out)

[Brantley]

So what i am saying is re-install the original bearings and pastiguage

Roger that. Do they need to go back in their original positions? I have no way of telling now. (And some may have gone missing  ) So what you and MReick are telling me is I needn't worry about surfaces in question as long as everything's super clean and I measure carefully?
Another thought: Is there any advantage/ disadvantage in using threadlocker to install the tranny roller bearings (as is recommended in the Norton Commando gearbox)?

And Mreick, may I pm you when I get to the head work?

Sorry if I came off a bit pissy in my last post; I got off work really late and in a bad mood, but was still excited to see replies to my query. So thanks everyone.

[754]

I think you can get them back in by checking the numbers or by the color marking  of the shells.

You always should mark parts on diassembly, that way if your bearing were still good, and one set is backordered til 2010, you can reuse the old one..

I never heard of bearings turning in Honda cases.

 Remember if anything your bores are now tighter & grippier..

[Big Jay]

Take all of the oil plugs out and take the cases to a transmission shop that rebuilds automatic transmissions, and have them wash them in their washing machine.

Jay

[Brantley]

Take all of the oil plugs out and take the cases to a transmission shop that rebuilds automatic transmissions, and have them wash them in their washing machine.

Jay

What kind of machine is this? I work in a bar and we have a commercial dishwasher for glasswear with rotary sprayers top and bottom and is large enough to lay one case half flat. The water temp is around 120º.
I planned on using that, the carwash, the tub, a black cat bone, and a mojo, too. Would it be worth dealing with another stranger that probably doesn't dig his job very much and probably gives less than a crap about my project? (Forgive the rant; I just got bent over replacing the tranny in my truck last month.)

You always should mark parts on diassembly

If I may paraphrase Frank Zappa, "Hydrogen is not the most plentiful element in the universe- stupidity is."
It was kinda dumb of me to not mark each bearing location, but I had already plastigauged them and they were well within the service limit so I was going to replace them with the same color (yellow) because of minor scoring. What's really stupid is I trusted someone else NOT to be stupid.

[MRieck]

The only problem I've seen is staining of the bare aluminum with the automotive washers/detergents. I'd be very careful putting those in any washing machine. If you are painting them no big deal.

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, what Mike said, most commercial dishwashing detergents are caustic soda based, and caustic and bare alloy are not good friends, and can even make your bare cases go black (don't ask me how I know, boohoo.........) I have heard of excellent results degreasing old painted cases in domestic dishwashers though, although I haven't had the balls to try it at home yet.

If you're cleaning after blasting though, I wouldn't do the dishwasher thing, there's no real advantage as your cases are already nice and clean. Like Derek and Mike suggested awhile back, dunk them in a tub of warm soapy water, and with a range of bore brushes and pipe cleaners, clean out every oilway, nook and cranny, (pipe cleaners for small threaded areas) flush everything out with a water jet, then blow everything out with compressed air, then repeat. You'll be gobsmacked at the amount of abrasive that ends up in the bottom of the tub! Cheers, Terry.

[seaweb11]

And your wife will love you al the more....mine did

P.S Use a rubber mat for bottom of tub, don't ask me how I know

[754]

Jay did point you in the right direction,
ie,a place that is cleaning die-cast aluminum alloy parts.. so what they use will not harm your case.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

It's the trisodium phosphate in dishwashing detergent that does not like aluminum.

[bunghole]

P.S Use a rubber mat for bottom of tub, don't ask me how I know

Yep!!!!!!!!

I put some gnarly black lines on our tub.  I freaked out before my wife got home from travels, but luckily, it polished out with some abrasive cleaner.

I put some cardboard underneath for the second go.

[Terry in Australia]

Geez, you guys are ballsier than I thought, I didn't clean mine in the bath tub, I bought a cheap plastic tub from my local hardware store (great for storing parts too) and cleaned them out in the garage............ 

It's the trisodium phosphate in dishwashing detergent that does not like aluminum.

What are you doing spouting proper chemical names like that Jerry? I would have thought that this time of year you'd be sipping makers like me, and mumbling incoherently............... 

[Brantley]

The only problem I've seen is staining of the bare aluminum with the automotive washers/detergents. I'd be very careful putting those in any washing machine. If you are painting them no big deal.

The whole point of this debacle was to blast the PAINTED surfaces since I was having a repair done. Had I not needed a weld I'd have poured old dot 3  brake fluid on the sucker and let the old paint bubble off, wash it, and repaint. I actually thought I should only use the water pressure from the washer of which I spoke as I am the cat what repairs it when it acts up. (i.e. I can disconnect the lines that supply the detergent that BURRRRRNS pale skin, the rinse agent, and the sanitiser and maybe just pour a bit of Dawn in) And Terry- one thing I haven't figured out how to destroy is an 100 yr old clawfoot tub- although it's been tried.