Topic: Rust Removal Myths

[cjackel]

Does anyone else wonder why vinegar, Coke, and Ketchup continue to be
cited as miracle rust removers for gas tanks?

For some strange reason, legitimate sources, such as Classic Motorcycle Mechanics, restoration manuals,
Hemmings Motornews and other media seem to favor POR-15, Kreme, SafestRustRemover, or Rusteco.
Even Yamaha makes their own version of the POR kit.

My theory is that people are indeed removing something from their gas tanks with vinegar, Coke, etc,
but it isn't the rust that would cause a leak. Most metals have a microscopic layer of corrosion that actually
stops further corrosion. This is what is most likely being removed with vinegar or other "removers."

I've read so many other cost-saving ideas in the motorcycle media, but not one journalist endorses
pouring in a bottle of Heinz or cola drinks.

Your thoughts?

[Bob Wessner]

bottle of Heinz or cola drinks

I guess I'm a sceptic also since both can be consumed by us humans, and from what I understand, some folks consume large numbers of Coke in a single day.

[skamania19]

I've been around some CHEAP home mechanics but I've never seen any of them actually try those home recipes whenever it comes down to their own bikes. They always seemed to revert to legitimate removers. In fact, I don't think I know anyone that's EVER used home brews. I'd be interested in hearing first hand (or at least second hand) accounts and the results of using a home recipe tank rust remover.

[Gordon]

I'll accept the fact that vinegar, and other mildly acidic substances, can remove superficial surface rust, but to restore a seriously rust-damaged tank requires industrial strength acid and some type of liner to reinforce the compromised metal. 

And, just to play Devil's advocte, I'd have to say the Motorcycle magazines don't get paid much to endorse Heinz 57 as a good gas tank cleaner. 

[Raul CB750K1]

Vegemite and Bud light 50-50. I heard of somebody who did it with great results.

Raul

[Gordon]

Vegemite and Bud light 50-50. I heard of somebody who did it with great results.

That sounds like some kind of really nasty drink you'd order at a bar to impress the chicks.  Either that, or an all-natural colon cleanser. 

[GeoffT]

Vegemite and Bud light 50-50. I heard of somebody who did it with great results.

Raul

Can't get vegemite here, would marmite or bovril do just as well? 

[Raul CB750K1]

Vegemite and Bud light 50-50. I heard of somebody who did it with great results.

Raul

Can't get vegemite here, would marmite or bovril do just as well?

Don't know man, those aussies out there now that Marmite is just a poor imitation of Vegemite...

[Mark M]

Raul - watch yourself - don't throw yourself into that battle, remember you are just an inocent bystander. There is a danger the subject will develop into who exported who, and we all know how nasty that one can get.

[KB02]

There's a great show on the Discovery Channel call "Mythbusters." They (for those of you who don't know) go around trying to duplicate myths and urban legands and either debunk them or prove their possibilities. They did one episode where they touched on Coke as a rust remover. They actually had some limited success with the product. They also used a professional rust remover and had better luck with that.

Lesson learned: Will Coke work to remove rust? Maybe. Are there other things out there better suited for the job? Definately.

Would I use it in my tank? Never. I like to drink it far too much to waste a gallon dumping it in my gas tank.

[GeoffT]

Lesson learned: Will Coke work to remove rust? Maybe. Are there other things out there better suited for the job? Definately.

Would I use it in my tank? Never. I like to drink it far too much to waste a gallon dumping it in my gas tank.

With you on that one. Never used a rust remover for petrol tank yet but I might need to one day. Certainly prefer to use rust remover than coke. After all, you wouldn't wash a fish supper down with rust remover would you?!!

[Kelvin8]

I've seen Vegemite in one or two stores here in the States. I think the vegemite/beer mix went into the owner, who then didn't care how much elbow grease was needed to remove the layers of rust.

[jaknight]

Hello Everyone ~ ~ A little bit off the main subject, but I do know that it is true ~ I have done this myself.  Coca Cola may be very helpful for working on the receiver of a later built Model 1903 Springfield rifle ~ one of the rifles made with the later nickel steel content for better metal characteristics under sudden impact resistance, yet ductile enough not to shatter.  Trying to drill the receiver for rear sights or telescopic sights may be a lost cause.  Build a small clay dam where the holes need to be drilled.  Fill the small clay spot with Coca Cola and let it sit over night.  You may then drill the receiver easily in those spots because the phosphoric acid in the Coca Cola softens and eats through the hardened surface of the nickel steel finish.  What that phosphoric acid will do to rust I really don't know, but I have wondered how our stomachs can handle that stuff.  And I thought some pizzas were bad enough! ~ ~ jaknight 

[Jonesy]

I read the key ingredient in Coke, ketchup, etc. is phosphoric acid. Granted the amount in an average can of Coke is small, so it gets used up reacting with the rust real quick. More must be added and the progress frequently monitored for decent results. Patience is the other key ingredient here...

The dedicated rust remover kits have acid of one type or another, but in a much more concentrated form. This works well for us folks who would rather ride than wait a couple weeks for the Coca-Cola to work!

[frostypuck]

I would agree with the phoshoric acid idea, I just tried it the other day with some acid I got from a customer of mine. It removed therust inside my 550F tank, and did so well that there was no more rust holding the tank together and the bottom of it became highly porous. The acid was inside for no more than 3 minutes.
As for ketchup, (or catsup as we have it here) I would think the vinegar is the rust remover in that. It will take the tarnish off a penny in no time.
Chris (with the see-thru 550 tank) in Boston

[CB750R]

The best source for strong acid is pool supplies, the muriatic acid used to condition the PH is highly potent, and will strip the corrosion off any bare steel. (it'll also smoke when you add it to water!!)  This is the fastest way to remove rust with a chemical. The fumes are pretty harsh so use precautions.

[jaannaktin]

Muriatic acid, also known as HCl, does a fantastic job in the tank. Used 50/50 with tap water. I got it from the local mom and pop hardware store -- it wasn't on display, I think they keep it in a hazardous chemical section. Very cheap, too, compared to POR15 or Kreem. Probably costs about as much as Coca Cola . . .

[SteveD CB500F]

By HCl do you mean what we used to call Hydrochloric Acid at school?

So Muriatic Acid = Hydrochloric Acid.

[Bob Wessner]

Used 50/50 with tap water

Just make sure if you have to dilute it for the 50/50 mix, you do it right. It has to be one a particlar way, add acid to water, OR water to acid. I forget which. Maybe someone can jump in here and give it to you correctly. Doing it wrong can be dangerous.

[mick750F]

Used 50/50 with tap water

Just make sure if you have to dilute it for the 50/50 mix, you do it right. It has to be one a particlar way, add acid to water, OR water to acid. I forget which. Maybe someone can jump in here and give it to you correctly. Doing it wrong can be dangerous.

   Always add acid to water...and NO SPLASHING. It's a good idea to wear eye protection also.

Mike

[Bob Wessner]

Mike,

Thanks for jumping in, my highshool chem days were a l-o-n-g time ago. 

[dusterdude]

bob,how long ago?

[Bob Wessner]

How about 44 years! Back then we were still trying to make gold via alchemy. 

[dusterdude]

damn,i dont feel so bad now.ive been out of school for ....hmmm 27 years.

[jaannaktin]

Yup, good old Hydrochloric Acid. Yes, acid to water -- the easy way to remember is that this stuff is used to unclog toilets, so pouring into a toilet means adding it to water (and other "stuff").

Disposal is a bit of a pain, though. I followed Old Man Honda's tips and neutralized the leftover acid with calcium carbonate (limestone)chips. Problem was, the hardware store did not have limestone chips, but the granular stuff. All that surface area produces a large nasty foaming blob. Note to self, use chips next time.

[mick750F]

   Muriatic acid is probably the nastiest thing you can buy off the shelf. In these days of lawsuits I'm surprised you don't have to be licensed to buy and use the stuff. I would recommend that anyone who hasn't used it before to do a search and learn about it. Actually, for what we're talking about here phosphoric acid is plenty adequate and a lot safer.

Mike...I'm not a chemist nor do I play one in the movies 

[Gordon]

   Muriatic acid is probably the nastiest thing you can buy off the shelf. In these days of lawsuits I'm surprised you don't have to be licensed to buy and use the stuff.

I was thinking the same thing a couple of days ago when I was at the Home Depot.  I went through the self-checkout line where you scan your own items and pay without the need for a cashier, when I scanned the spray can of engine degreaser.  The whole thing froze up, and I needed a cashier's approval to buy the stuff.  Never had a problem before when buying muriatic acid.  Apparently they regulate the sale of anything you can inhale to get high, but have no problem selling something you can melt someone's face off with to any kid who has a couple of extra bucks. 

[Dennis]

Muriatic acid is probably the nastiest thing you can buy off the shelf. ...... Actually, for what we're talking about here phosphoric acid is plenty adequate and a lot safer.

However the problem at least for me is that I cannot locate a good source of phosphoric acid. HCl, muriatic acid, concrete cleaner or whatever you want to call it is readily available and cheap.
Anyone know where to buy it? Prefer local in central New Jersey or eastern PA.

[Raul CB750K1]

I recently bough phosphoric acid to de-rust my CB350 tank. The tank is almost junk so I will use it as a test. I was breaking my head wondering where could I find it. So I went to Leroy-Merlin (a big store like Lowe's or Home Depot) and went to the "cleaners" section, where the polishers and cleaners are. They were a bunch or rust removers. When I looked at the formula, all of them said: "contains phosphoric acid". In general they contain some other elements, I guess to reduce the strength, but all of them had phosphoric acid.


Raul

[Terry in Australia]

Phosphoric acid is the safest rust remover to use, Muriatic acid, if not completely removed will cause more rust than it will remove, and is dangerous to you, and the environment.

Phosphoric is used extensively by dairy farmers to wash out milk vats etc, and if ingested (in small diluted quantities, like in Cola or Tomatoe ketchup or juice ) won't boil your insides, melt your eyes, or cause your pecker to smoke!

The guys on "Myth-Busters" were surprised at how well Cola removed rust from an old truck bumper, it actually worked much better than a "Brand Name" rust remover product.

When I was an army recruit, we would soak the gas plugs of our combat rifles overnight in Coca-Cola, and the burned on carbon would just dissolve. Of course this was against army regulations, like most other common sense items, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[Bob Wessner]

Of course this was against army regulations, like most other common sense items, ha ha!

Your reference to 'army' and 'common sense' brought back memories (most bad). I reminded me of a little ritual they had in Vietnam in our, and I assume, other compounds. We had a status board just outside HQ. It had a series of wooden squares to be displayed depending on bad guy activity in the area. White meant nothing going on. Gray meant a sligthly elevated level of activity. Yellow meant a nearby compound was under attack. Red meant our compound was under attack. Now, who the he_l would need a sign to tell you that  and who was the poor sucker that had to go out and change it from whatever to Red.