Author Topic: OK, Now What?  (Read 8713 times)

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Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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OK, Now What?
« on: December 28, 2008, 01:04:52 PM »
I'm rebuilding the top end of my '77 550K (33k miles) due to an oil leak between the head and cylinder block.  Yes, the leak was bad enough to make me want to do this.  I figure the savings in dry cleaning to get the oil out of my pant legs will be worth the effort!  My goal here is to rebuild her into a leak-free, reliable daily runner that doesn't need to be cracked open again until my grand kid needs to replace gaskets.  No need for high performance parts or techniques here.

As you can see by the picture, I've got her broke down to the base gasket.  I have purchased and received an OEM top-end gasket kit.  I'm not sure if the six cam tower "pucks" are in the kit or not, may have to order those separate.  I have determined that the cam chain tensioner rubber will need to be replaced as it looks a bit brittle and cracked.  The chain itself looks to be in good shape as does the cam gear, so I think I'll not mess with those. 

So, now what?

Sure I know I need to clean and mirror polish the mating surfaces, but what else?  Should I use some sort of gasket sealer?  What do you suggest?  Which surfaces?  Should I remove/inspect/replace the studs?  Inspect/replace the rings?  The bores look nice and shiny, no scoring.  The piston tops cleaned up real nice as did the inside of the head.  I let the head sit upside down, over night soaking in brake cleaner and found nothing to indicate any leaky valve seats. The cam lobes and lifters all look smooth, no scoring there either.

I don't plan to replace the valve seals but don't really know what I should do to inspect them for leaks.  Maybe flood the top of the head and look for any drips into the ports?

I'm reading the forum and my Haynes manual, but any advice you can throw my way will be greatly appreciated!


 
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Offline d3buttz

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2008, 01:17:42 PM »
im doing the same thing for my 75'550-im going the performance route tho-if you soaked the head in brake cleaner i would check the valve rubbers on the head that sit inside the valve springs- the brake cleaner might have done some drying out of the rubbers and deformed them-just to be safe!
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Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2008, 04:36:14 PM »
Thanks 3D, I didn't soak the whole head in brake cleaner, rather pooled a small amount in what would be the top of the combustion chamber.  I did this for two reasons, first to loosen the carbon deposits and second, to check for any leaks in the valve seats.  After several hours, the carbon practically wiped out with a rag and, since there were no spots on the paper towel I put under the head and dry ports, all valve seats are tight.

I inventoried the top-end kit (part# 06110-390-501) I got a few years ago and compared the part numbers of each item within the kit with part numbers on a parts fiche.  I have in hand the following:
1 base gasket
1 head gasket
1 12391-323-000 head cover gasket
1 12329-323-000 breather cover gasket
4 18291-390-306 copper exhaust gaskets
2 91310-426-000 O-rings oil control valves, between the case and the cylinder block
2 91301-426-010 O-rings dowels between the head and the cylinder block
4 91319-323-000 O-rings rocker end cap
12 91302-001-020 O-rings (4 for intake manifolds & 8 for the tappet covers)
Some strange things:
1 91310-426-000 O-ring ?? and extra oil control valve O-ring??
4 black O-rings, approx 3.5 inches, no part number.  Could these be the rings under the base gasket (part# 91304-286-000)?
8 small green O-rings, no part number, approx 12mm

Looks like I will need to order the six 91318-300-013 "Sealing Rubbers" (aka pucks) as they are not in the kit.

A couple of items I don't quite understand.  Is there a reason I should need a third O-ring for the oil control valves?  Any ideas what the 8 green 12mm O-rings are for? 
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
What do you have to do?
Lot’s of things. You’ve been watching me.
Will you show me all of them?
Sure.
Is it hard?
Not if you have the right attitudes. It’s having the right attitudes that’s hard.

WHALEMAN

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2008, 04:38:36 PM »
Be sure to lable everything. Remove and clean pistons and yes you must replace the rings. Have the cylinders honed. Since you have to break the valves down anyway to replace the valve seals I would lap all the valves even if they look good it only cost a couple of dollars. Use Honda pucks. Stuff towels in each hole before removing the pistons as if you don't you will for sure drop something down. I would not mirror polish the gasket surfaces. If it was me I would have the head bead blasted to clean the ports and cylinders but if money is tight you can do it if careful. If you do decide to have it blasted let them do the pistons as they can do it better and not do any harm. If money is no object send it to Mike Rieck. I would download a shop manual. Replace the cam chain roller. I replace piston pin circlips but not everyone does. I will let others comment on gasket sealer but for myself I use a very very small amount on the base and cam cover but do not use anything on the head gasket.

Offline ieism

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2008, 06:43:39 PM »
With 33000 miles on it, I wouldn't do all of that. Just put it back together properly (as per manual) and retighten the nuts after running it in and it should not leak again.
I have 2 550's with well over double the milage an them. I recently did the topend on one (a 77'K also) and decided to leave the pistons and rings on. No honing either. If compression is good, she can go for another 33000 miles before a full rebuild.
Camchain guide is a good idea though.
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Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2008, 06:49:54 PM »
Compression wise, she is pushing a consistent 110 - 115 PSI using a long hose'd compression tester.

I am thinking of popping the rings off and measuring the gaps.  Haynes tells me that the ring gaps should not exceed 0.027 in (0.7 mm).  If the gap(s) are larger then that, then maybe a honing and rings will be needed.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 06:55:42 PM by OldSchool_IsCool »
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
What do you have to do?
Lot’s of things. You’ve been watching me.
Will you show me all of them?
Sure.
Is it hard?
Not if you have the right attitudes. It’s having the right attitudes that’s hard.

Offline ieism

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2008, 06:51:45 PM »
Oh, and you don't need gasketsealer if you have a full gasketset. You can clean the studs and nuts and oil them lightly. The bolts that hold the head should srew on easily with your hands. If they are hard to turn by hand, clean up the tread of the stud or get a new bolt.

The camchain can be a bit of a pain to get back on. There's only one way it will work, look on the forum for tricks and get a good idea of how to do it before you start.

I got it on with a lot of cursing and beer, only to find out I forgot to rotate the cam correctly :)
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Offline mark

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2008, 07:06:38 PM »
........ Any ideas what the 8 green 12mm O-rings are for? 

Those are most likely for the valve guides.

There is a guy on ebay that sells a nice set of Viton valve stem seals. better than stock, imo.

Don't forget to back off the valve adjuster screws before putting the cam cover back on!!!


Happy trails.


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WHALEMAN

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2008, 07:52:49 PM »
Seriously ieism you would reuse the old rings? I believe that is asking for a real problem. For all the work it is to get to this point I would always hone and install new rings. I will look forward to other opinions. Are you suggesting removing the old rings to clean behind them? Maybe someone can set up a poll. I will lay you 2 to 1 I will win. Dan

Offline ieism

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2008, 08:14:21 PM »
I'm sure many disagree. But if compression is good, and the bores look almost perfect I don't see much point in replacing rings and pistons.
We'll find out soon enough because I didn't replace mine, and I drive about 10K miles a year on my bikes:)
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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2008, 08:28:26 PM »
I think one thing to keep in mind is how much the rings float around the piston. Everything I have read says they do not move around and that is why you space the gaps. We agree the rings have seated at 33000 miles and I hope we can agree that the odds of getting the rings in the exact same positions they all were is zero. We also can agree with the cylinder glazed that the rings will not seat to the cylinder again. Standard rings are cheap and a quick hone is also cheap. dan

Offline ieism

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2008, 08:40:50 PM »
You have a point there.

I have to take the engine apart next season to install a hot cam anyway, so I'm considering your advice.

But this is not my tread really, so back to the topic.......
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Offline 754

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2008, 08:56:01 PM »
Whaleman, replace rings all you want, but some of us will not worry about it.. It will probably go another 30 K... beside he can pull topend in the frame..

Many on here know how far a Honda motor can go even if you replace a base gasket, with out re ringing. The key here is cylindrical bore, should not matter where the ring is in it, just stagger on assembly & put the top gap 180 deg from midpoint between ex valve and spark plug..
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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2008, 08:56:55 PM »
Looking close at the photo of the pistons it looks to me like the engine was broken in very easy and the rings do not look like they seated very good. Dan

Offline cafe750

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2008, 07:46:41 AM »
Compression wise, she is pushing a consistent 110 - 115 PSI using a long hose'd compression tester.

I am thinking of popping the rings off and measuring the gaps.  Haynes tells me that the ring gaps should not exceed 0.027 in (0.7 mm).  If the gap(s) are larger then that, then maybe a honing and rings will be needed.
Ring gaps are measured with the rings in the bore. Use a piston so that you can push the ring into the bore square, then measure the gap. If you can get the ring to mid bore, that's where I'd measure it, for its the most likely to still be round...
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Offline bryanj

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2008, 08:05:01 AM »
If the tensioner is bad, fit a camchain using a soft link from a 500 twin.

Those pucks are a necesity so order them

4 Large thin "O" go in bottom of liners
8 Green ones round outside of valve guides when replacing them

If compression good leave rings alone

Should be a small black "O" ring to go under the washer on the cam chain adjuster screw although for some reason Honda sometimes put that in the bottom set

WARNING

Make extra sure no bits go down the holes in crankcase where the restrictors go when you are gasket cleaning

Make sure ALL gasket bits are removes

READ manual CAREFULY about fitting rocker cover or YOU WILL bend valves
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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2008, 08:50:02 AM »

I inventoried the top-end kit (part# 06110-390-501) I got a few years ago and compared the part numbers of each item within the kit with part numbers on a parts fiche.  I have in hand the following:
1 base gasket
1 head gasket
1 12391-323-000 head cover gasket
1 12329-323-000 breather cover gasket
4 18291-390-306 copper exhaust gaskets
2 91310-426-000 O-rings oil control valves, between the case and the cylinder block
2 91301-426-010 O-rings dowels between the head and the cylinder block
4 91319-323-000 O-rings rocker end cap
12 91302-001-020 O-rings (4 for intake manifolds & 8 for the tappet covers)
Some strange things:
1 91310-426-000 O-ring ?? and extra oil control valve O-ring??
4 black O-rings, approx 3.5 inches, no part number.  Could these be the rings under the base gasket (part# 91304-286-000)?
8 small green O-rings, no part number, approx 12mm

Looks like I will need to order the six 91318-300-013 "Sealing Rubbers" (aka pucks) as they are not in the kit.

A couple of items I don't quite understand.  Is there a reason I should need a third O-ring for the oil control valves?  Any ideas what the 8 green 12mm O-rings are for? 

If, by "oil control valve", you mean the oil metering orifices that feed the cam bearings: there are several sizes of O-rings on those darn things. Match up the ones you have to new ones. I have the following 3 sizes in my notes for those things:
5.8 x 1.9 mm #91305-323-000
3.7 x 1.7 mm #91317-300-003
5.6 x 1.9 mm #91318-ME5-003
but, these are all for "K" engines. I'm guessing that the situation is similar of the "F" engines, with oil orifices of two kinds that seem to come and go in production. This is one of those little things that I've never figured out: why Honda would switch oil orifices for no apparent reason, requiring a different seal rings in the heads to do it?

Those big, skinny O-rings are for the bottom of the cylinders. Pressing them in and getting them to stay there while you reassemble requires that the old ones be removed and the grooves be well cleaned, like with brake cleaner, so the new ones will 'stick' into the grooves. I press them in with the side of a small flat-blade screwdriver, going around a little at a time until they are evenly seated. Then they will stay. If you start in one spot, the rest won't go in evenly, and it will creep back out.

Those green 12mm O-rings are for K2 and earlier engines: they go in place of the longer ones that look like dowels, as those earlier engines didn't have the deep recesses alongside the dowels between the head and cylinders (the recesses were cut into the cylinders).

I might suggest: take the cylinders and the head to a good engine shop, and ask to have the mating surfaces ground flat, if you suspect the leak was coming from between the head and the cylinders. Usually, though, the leak comes from the pucks, and works its way out of the area between the head & cylinders. I ALWAYS glue the pucks in, with either FelCoBond (from Fel-Pro) or the thin paint-on Aviation Gasket Sealer from Permatex. I used to use the non-hardening Permatex, but in this hot zone, it still hardens after a lot of miles. The other stuff never hardens, seals better. Don't use silicone sealers here, they won't work in this spot.

The rings: don't remove them from the pistons unless you plan on installing new ones. You can infer the ring gap wear by taking a NEW 3" hone (Checker or Auto Zone, $8 or so) and spinning it in the bore for about 30-60 seconds or so. This will scuff the glaze on the walls and will show where the "ridge" is at the top of the cylinders: that 'ridge ring' will still be shiny. If you have any inside-measuring bore tools, measure at the deepest spot and compare to the unworn bore near the bottom of the cylinder. The ring gap can be inferred by multiplying the ridge depth by 3.14 and adding that to Honda's spec .003" (example: (.0005" wear x 3.14) + .003" = .00457", still within the .006" limit). If the ridge is more than .003", I'd suggest an overbore (not likely at 30k miles). If it is less than .0005", leave the rings alone, just reassemble. If it's in between, consider new rings, of the same type (go by the oil rings, 1-piece or 3-piece), but hone the bores a little more until the ridge ring is minimized or gone (typically about 3 minutes honing time, clean the stones with kerosene/charcoal lighter fluid/Coleman fuel between bores). Then, take one of the old rings of each type, break it, and use it to scrape out the carbon from the piston grooves before installing the new rings. This will take a couple of hours, but isn't a terrible task.

The biggest problem I see with the Haynes suggestion of checking the ring end gap of your old rings: they will distort if you remove them from the piston. This will ruin their mated seal. So, you must hone the cylinder afterward to re-wear that seal, which will leave you with an extra .0005" or so clearance after they do re-mate, which means loose rings and larger end gaps, which will flutter and seal poorly. So, if you remove the rings, install new ones and hone again. I just bought some MC rings on eBay for $7 per bore (these are the 1-piece oil rings, though), and they were good rings back in the day. They have a stepped 2nd ring, which seals a bit better at high RPM, compared to the stock 2nd ring.

The toughest part, reassembling the pistons into the bores, can be greatly eased if you also take some time to sand the sharp edge of the bottom of the bores with some 100-150 grit paper, and round that edge. You'll prevent a ring snag on those 3-piece oil rings a whole lot better, if you do this now.  ;)
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Offline ieism

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2008, 09:43:12 AM »
I think the 77 K 550's already have a bit of an edge to help the pistons slide into the bores when putting it back together. I'm not sure if this is the same as earlier 550's.

The manual said it was a two man job, and special tools to keep the rings tight would be helpfull, but I had little trouble getting the rings in the bore.
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Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2008, 05:26:15 PM »
Thanks Everyone!

The rings are still on the pistons and will stay there until I hone and measure the bores to satisfy myself that the rings are still in tolerance. 

Shopping list so far:
- 6 Sealing Rubbers (pucks)
- 2 oil pan gaskets (one for now, one in a few hundred miles
- 1 cam chain tensioner rubber
- 3" cylinder hone
- bore I.D. caliper
- FelCoBond or paint-on Aviation Sealer
- gasket remover
- 1 choke cable

I stopped by Advanced Auto today and found all things Permatex, but not the Aviation sealer.  Any thoughts on where I can source FelCoBond or Aviation?  They also had a brake cylinder hone for bores between 1.75" and 3.50".  I noted that the honing stones were square and not rounded.  The three arms were spring loaded but extended independently of each other, kind of floating over the surface being bored.  Will this work for my application?  Has anyone tried to JBWeld a button magnet to the tip of the oil plug to collect any ferric bits floating in the oil?

Are the pucks the only "gaskets" that should be installed with sealer?  When I pulled the cam/lifter cover off that there was an orange-ish rubbery sealer used there.  Would that be a factory sealer or has someone been in my engine before?  I noted no other sealers on any other surfaces.

Thanks again for all your help!

Edit:
AutoZone has a 4 oz can with a brush under its cap.  It's called "High Tack".  Could this be the "Aviation Sealant" you speak of, Mark?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 06:31:41 PM by OldSchool_IsCool »
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
What do you have to do?
Lot’s of things. You’ve been watching me.
Will you show me all of them?
Sure.
Is it hard?
Not if you have the right attitudes. It’s having the right attitudes that’s hard.

Offline bryanj

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2008, 07:23:19 PM »
Orange sealer means somebody been there before, in which case i would remove valves and check for straight
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2008, 05:32:32 AM »
Thanks Everyone!

The rings are still on the pistons and will stay there until I hone and measure the bores to satisfy myself that the rings are still in tolerance. 

Shopping list so far:
- 6 Sealing Rubbers (pucks)
- 2 oil pan gaskets (one for now, one in a few hundred miles
- 1 cam chain tensioner rubber
- 3" cylinder hone
- bore I.D. caliper
- FelCoBond or paint-on Aviation Sealer
- gasket remover
- 1 choke cable

I stopped by Advanced Auto today and found all things Permatex, but not the Aviation sealer.  Any thoughts on where I can source FelCoBond or Aviation?  They also had a brake cylinder hone for bores between 1.75" and 3.50".  I noted that the honing stones were square and not rounded.  The three arms were spring loaded but extended independently of each other, kind of floating over the surface being bored.  Will this work for my application?  Has anyone tried to JBWeld a button magnet to the tip of the oil plug to collect any ferric bits floating in the oil?

Are the pucks the only "gaskets" that should be installed with sealer?  When I pulled the cam/lifter cover off that there was an orange-ish rubbery sealer used there.  Would that be a factory sealer or has someone been in my engine before?  I noted no other sealers on any other surfaces.

Thanks again for all your help!

Edit:
AutoZone has a 4 oz can with a brush under its cap.  It's called "High Tack".  Could this be the "Aviation Sealant" you speak of, Mark?


It sounds like the right hone, or close: the one I use has stones that are 3" long. The square edges will wear off in minutes, no problem.

I think that "High Tack" stuff is a glue for holding gaskets in place while assembling things. It's not really the sealant I was thinking of: Permatex calls this stuff Aviation Gasket Sealant, or Diesel Engine Sealant: I've seen it referred to both ways. It talks about aviation and diesel applications on the instructions on the label, so maybe check that 'High tack' stuff for that? The product names change so fast... I think I got it at Checker when I last built my car's engine, a 200 CID straight six that's found in so many Falcons, Mustangs and Fairmonts. (I think it's even more durable that the CB750, has over 240K on it now!)

If you do the magnet thing: bore a hole into the oil plug first, then bond the magnet down into the hole. If you just glue it to the surface, it will come off. Another method: use a ring magnet, drill & tap a shallow hole into the oil plug, then use a screw that's just barely longer than the whole reach. Loctite the whole thing together with the magnet held lightly, as they are very brittle and will crack if held tightly when heated-cooled over and over. There are commercially-made versions of these in metric sizes (I have one in my cars), but I've never looked to see if one would fit these bikes. Good idea, though!
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

WHALEMAN

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2008, 06:04:16 AM »
I have been searching magnet sites with the goal of finding a long thin magnet I could attach to the oil dipstick. That way I could wipe off every time I check the oil. Have not found anything I felt good about yet. Dan

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2008, 03:51:06 PM »
Thanks again!

A search of Permatex's web site shows they have THREE brush cap products, Aviation Sealer, High Tack and Super 300.  All three claim to be non-hardening and have temp ranges from -60F to either 400F or 500F.  The difference with High Tack is it is quick to set. 

I stopped by my local MC shop today.  They have a bit of experience with engine rebuilds.  He suggested YamaBond or 1194, both of which I have read about in forum posts as well as Hylomar.  I bought the 1194 as it advertises as non-drying, slow setting, flexible, resists oil and has a decent temp range too.  It's also the product Z1 sells.

I'm looking into machine shops now.  If the estimate comes within budget, I'll have them dress the mating surfaces of the cylinder block and head and while they are at it, deglaze the bores with a light honing.  If they are out of my budget, I'll deglaze it myself and wing it from there!  I have a couple ideas on what I can do to ensure the surfaces are close to flat before I waste gaskets on a doomed rebuild.

Check the valves for straightness, hmmm.  That would mean a spring compressor and while I'm in there, new stem seals.  Gota think about that one.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 03:57:25 PM by OldSchool_IsCool »
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WHALEMAN

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2008, 04:48:01 PM »
Many auto parts stores loan the valve spring compressors or if you have to buy you can use one of the small ones. You should have the new valve seals. You should replace these and clean and lap the valves in while the springs are off. I know you are on a budget but a small tube of lapping compound and a suction spinner would not cost $10 and is well worth that. If you are not familiar with " Valve lapping" just say and it can be explained. It is very easy. Dan

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Re: OK, Now What?
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2008, 07:45:27 PM »
Thanks again!

A search of Permatex's web site shows they have THREE brush cap products, Aviation Sealer, High Tack and Super 300.  All three claim to be non-hardening and have temp ranges from -60F to either 400F or 500F.  The difference with High Tack is it is quick to set. 

I stopped by my local MC shop today.  They have a bit of experience with engine rebuilds.  He suggested YamaBond or 1194, both of which I have read about in forum posts as well as Hylomar.  I bought the 1194 as it advertises as non-drying, slow setting, flexible, resists oil and has a decent temp range too.  It's also the product Z1 sells.

I'm looking into machine shops now.  If the estimate comes within budget, I'll have them dress the mating surfaces of the cylinder block and head and while they are at it, deglaze the bores with a light honing.  If they are out of my budget, I'll deglaze it myself and wing it from there!  I have a couple ideas on what I can do to ensure the surfaces are close to flat before I waste gaskets on a doomed rebuild.

Check the valves for straightness, hmmm.  That would mean a spring compressor and while I'm in there, new stem seals.  Gota think about that one.

If you weren't burning oil before, and since the valves don't leak, I'd leave them alone. When I'm in such a situation, and don't plan on doing some porting work, I just leave them alone, myself. Once you pull the sharp edge of the valve's retainer groove through the seal, you way as well replace it, as they remove the sharp sealing lip inside the seal in a single pass, then the seal will leak.

I've had great luck with that Yamabond, too, and am currently using it on the 3 CB750 rebuilds I'm doing. However, it doesn't do a great job on those pucks, as it never gets thick enough. It's great on gaskets and between the crankcases, though.
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