Author Topic: OK, Now What? (Read 8401 times)

WHALEMAN · « **Reply #25 on:** December 30, 2008, 07:58:39 PM »

I defer to HondaMan. Dan

bryanj · « **Reply #26 on:** December 30, 2008, 08:17:13 PM »

Only reason i say check the valves is that the cover has obviously been off and its so easy to bend a stem when re-fitting, also stem seals are 33,000 miles and 31 years old so chances are the rubber is as hard as the tensioner blade which has already been commented on and would benefit from a change-----nother gasket set is more expensive than time spent

HondaMan · « **Reply #27 on:** December 30, 2008, 08:36:40 PM »

Quote from: bryanj on December 30, 2008, 08:17:13 PM

Only reason i say check the valves is that the cover has obviously been off and its so easy to bend a stem when re-fitting, also stem seals are 33,000 miles and 31 years old so chances are the rubber is as hard as the tensioner blade which has already been commented on and would benefit from a change-----nother gasket set is more expensive than time spent

Ah, very true, and likely.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #28 on:** December 31, 2008, 01:59:18 AM »

Just a wealth of information!

OK, add valve stem seals, lapping compound and lapping tool to the list. Arrange to borrow a valve spring compressor from the local auto parts store. Take care to return each valve and spring to their original location if not bent. Tappets were backed out before I pulled the head, make sure to tie them back during reassembly.

1194 on the gaskets (thinly butter both sides of the base and around the cam tunnel on the head, valve cover O-ring too) and get some Aviation or Hylomar for the pucks and around the oil metering valves.

I know there have been debates on the best stem seals here, and at the risk of starting another... should I go OEM (8 @ $6) or aftermarket? Which aftermarket? Please keep in mind this is just a daily rider, so premium parts aren't called for.

Maybe I should have just looked for a discount dry cleaner! ;-)

On a related topic, I'm working in an unheated garage in Michigan. When it comes to assembly time, does the ambient temperature matter (assume within human survivability)? The sealants seem to have a decent low end temp. I'm thinking that as long as all parts are at the same temperature, that a successful assembly could be done at any temperature. No?

mark · « **Reply #29 on:** December 31, 2008, 02:34:28 AM »

If the head gasket has a factory-applied shiny/tacky coating I wouldn't add anything. If it's an old-fashioned dry gray thing I would spray it good with cheap hi-temp silver paint.

I can't recall how many Fel-Pro gasket sets I installed that came with a little note explaining how wonderful their viton valve stem seals were, and how much longer they would last, and how viton cost more than plain ol' rubber, and that could account for why their set cost more. I bought a set of fancy blue viton seals from some ebay guy but he doesn't have any listed for the 550 right now.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #30 on:** December 31, 2008, 02:56:56 AM »

The head gasket is OEM. The surface does appear to be coated with something shiny, but I wouldn't say it is tacky. Looking at it closely, it seems a bit bumpy. Could it be that this coating will "melt in" when the engine heats up or "crush down" when torque'd?

bryanj · « **Reply #31 on:** December 31, 2008, 06:36:39 AM »

OK
Original seals lasted this long why not use em again, they used to be in a "top" set butmaybe not nowadays.

Good news is XL250/350 plus CB350/400/500/550/650 fours are all the same part so should be easy to find.
DO NOT put gasket GOO on the head gasket AND DEFINATELY NOT arround the oil feeds as only a small amount will block the oil ways ans sieze the cam ruining both it and the head

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #32 on:** December 31, 2008, 09:01:34 AM »

Thanks Bryan!

Sometimes it pays to lay out your "next steps" so that the TRUE masters have an opportunity to DOPE SLAP ya before you do something stupid! Head gasket dry and let the oil metering valve O-rings do their job unassisted.

I did score some Aviation Sealer today, so now I have a choice on what to use to butter the base gasket with. Valve stem seals are cheap enough and the valve compressor tool I can likely borrow, so may as well replace them and lap the valves too. I also got a recommendation on a local machine shop which I'll check out later today. They are very good, but prolly not cheap. He is currently rebuilding a straight-8 for a '29 Packard! 30+ years in the business, so he is prolly familiar with these parts.

Thanks all!

HondaMan · « **Reply #33 on:** December 31, 2008, 07:16:51 PM »

Typically, the bottom gasket only needs a very light touch of the thin sealant around the oil return holes on the front side, if any at all. I've seen other practiced wrenches dap a light bit around the outside edges of the cylinders on the K0/K1, but seldom after that. That's about the only place they ever leak down there, and that usually comes from high crankcase pressures, like from worn valve guides or rings, with high RPM a lot.

The Aviation stuff is real useful around the crankcase seals: the countershaft and the points shaft seals. Don't get it into the oil passage near the points seal, though. Also, check/replace the O-rings around the oil pump base, if you can find some. I bought some at my local O-ring supplier, as Honda does not sell them, and they are in 3 different sizes. If you can't find some, let me know and we can work something out. I think they were about 30 cents apiece, or something like that, so I bought a dozen or so for my oil pump experiments, in all 3 sizes each.

patricke9 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 12, 2010, 04:17:48 PM »

I know it's an old thread, but have been doing a lot of researching info before I tear into my Cb550 to replace the cam chain tensioner- but any updates? There are a couple threads out there that are full of great info, I get into reading them thinking wow this is awesome- all the info I need- then- nothing, no happy ending, no ending at all- are there a few CB550's out there with the top end disassembled or did they eventually get put back together? How bout an update!

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #35 on:** June 12, 2010, 07:12:33 PM »

I finished her in the spring of 2009 and have put about 1500 leak-free miles on her since then! My winter project this past year was to graft CB750 forks, disk and caliper onto her. Much better stopping power than the original. I ride as often as I can and LOVE to piss off the HD guys by popping 'er up on center stand and kick starting her. Why? because I can and they can't! LOL

patricke9 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 12, 2010, 08:00:47 PM »

That's good to hear, any tips/ tricks you can pass along on reassembly would be great. A friend who has built a couple motors will be helping me out but the more info the better.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #37 on:** June 12, 2010, 08:13:55 PM »

Take your time. Consult your repair manual and the parts fiche diagrams often. Make sure you account for every part, bolt, nut, washer, shim, dowel, o-ring and gasket. If your surfaces are clean and flat, you won't need any gasket goo except a little on the "pucks" or "Sealing Rubbers"

When sliding the cylinder block over the pistons, work the center two first. Use small blocks of wood under the pistons skirts to hold them straight and steady. I used hose clamps as ring compressors, but you can do it with just your fingers. Rings are fragile, so don't force it!

When you get to the cam cover, back out the tappets and tie them back with rubber bands. A dangling tappet can bend a valve pretty easily.

As you already found, read this forum as there is a TON of knowledge here!

dave500 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 13, 2010, 05:08:30 AM »

hey youve got it apart,dont do half a job,hone and re-ring it!man?

patricke9 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 13, 2010, 09:39:18 AM »

Quote from: dave500 on June 13, 2010, 05:08:30 AM

hey youve got it apart,dont do half a job,hone and re-ring it!man?

My CB550 has only 14,000 miles & the only reason I'm opening it up is to replace the cam chain tensioner that a P/O stripped out the cogs on. Compression was fine w/ little or no change between wet & dry tests & really doesn't even leak much at the head gasket. We'll see what we find when we open it up, but not expecting to find much wear on such a low mileage bike.

HondaMan · « **Reply #40 on:** June 13, 2010, 10:14:26 AM »

Quote from: OldSchool_IsCool on June 12, 2010, 07:12:33 PM

I finished her in the spring of 2009 and have put about 1500 leak-free miles on her since then! My winter project this past year was to graft CB750 forks, disk and caliper onto her. Much better stopping power than the original. I ride as often as I can and LOVE to piss off the HD guys by popping 'er up on center stand and kick starting her. Why? because I can and they can't! LOL

Old School:
Sweet ride! Those are nice pipes, too!

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #41 on:** June 13, 2010, 03:22:54 PM »

Quote from: HondaMan on June 13, 2010, 10:14:26 AM

Quote from: OldSchool_IsCool on June 12, 2010, 07:12:33 PM
I finished her in the spring of 2009 and have put about 1500 leak-free miles on her since then! My winter project this past year was to graft CB750 forks, disk and caliper onto her. Much better stopping power than the original. I ride as often as I can and LOVE to piss off the HD guys by popping 'er up on center stand and kick starting her. Why? because I can and they can't! LOL

Old School:
Sweet ride! Those are nice pipes, too!

Thanks Mark! She really loves your ignition module too. I've done nothing to the points but clean them with a business card since I put your module on.

Thanks also on the pipes. Those are actually slip-ons, but they did polish up pretty good. I found these at a bone yard and am hoping to get them cleaned up and installed soon.

patricke9 · « **Reply #42 on:** June 14, 2010, 08:31:05 AM »

Is this the Aviation Gasket sealer I should use for the pucks?
http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/permatek-aviation-forma-gasket-p-70578.html?ref=42

Hope so, i work at an Ace hardware store & can get it cheap!

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #43 on:** June 14, 2010, 03:28:46 PM »

Quote from: patricke9 on June 14, 2010, 08:31:05 AM

Is this the Aviation Gasket sealer I should use for the pucks?
http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/permatek-aviation-forma-gasket-p-70578.html?ref=42

Hope so, i work at an Ace hardware store & can get it cheap!

That's what I used. I'm pretty happy with it. and a little goes a long way! Too much and you could get some floating in your oil, clogging small holes leading to serious issues!

patricke9 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 14, 2010, 06:02:07 PM »

Thanks- getting ready to dig into it, should have everything I need by the end of the week!

patricke9 · « **Reply #45 on:** June 20, 2010, 07:48:07 PM »

Ok, getting ready to pull the head & cylinders tomorrow night after work & have a question for you if you don't mind-
I got the tensioner from a forum member & he sent me everything but the little rubber dampeners that go on the end of the tensioner because he said they would fall into the motor on disassembly- any tips on avoiding this? I'm not reusing them- have a new pair to put in but not sure how easy it will be to fish it out of the crankcase. Any advice on pulling the head or cylinder- I have been bagging & tagging everything so far. Been reading the manual & it seems to be pretty straight forward- hope to start putting it back together by this weekend-Thanks

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #46 on:** June 21, 2010, 08:35:23 AM »

You will assemble the tensioner on your bench, complete with the rubber tips. The whole assembly then goes into the engine as one piece. Shouldn't be a risk of the tips falling into the bottom of the engine.

patricke9 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 21, 2010, 08:50:30 AM »

Thanks, can't wait to get it back on the road, will be taking it apart tonight.

thehammer · « **Reply #48 on:** June 21, 2010, 10:34:38 AM »

sears' spring compressor is pretty cheap. it will work but you'll have to grind down the arms that grab onto the valve springs to get it to fit into the head and work without gouging the aluminum of the head. i bent the hell out of it doing a 550k head job. i guess you get what you pay for. but for the 30 bucks the tool costs, it works at least once and you pay about the same as you would in a machine shop. a snap on c-clamp style compressor i think is a good invesment.

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Author Topic: OK, Now What? (Read 8401 times)

WHALEMAN