Author Topic: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems  (Read 6821 times)

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Offline lordmoonpie

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Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« on: January 01, 2009, 07:29:50 AM »
Does anyone know where the Honda Twins Forum has gone to - I can no longer find the link to it?!!?

I have a problem with my Nova 6-speed close ratio gearbox selecting 5th and 6th so want to post something to see if there has been any similar experience. It's a fairly uncommon upgrade I think so wanted to hit the twins site first...

Any ideas on what the right URL should be? Happy New Year!  ;D
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Offline unkle fester

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2009, 07:40:12 AM »

Offline bill440cars

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2009, 08:11:51 AM »


           lordmoonpie, I sent you a PM.


                            Have a good one, Bill ;)
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2009, 12:33:45 PM »


       lordmoonpie, have you contacted these folks to see if they have any input?

              http://www.novaracing.co.uk/honda-cb350.htm


        I had forgotten about that for a bit and found this place.

         by the way, just how much is 1200 lbs (and what is Vat & Carriage?) Pretty pricey I'm sure. :o
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PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
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Offline malcolmgb

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 01:00:05 PM »
Hi Bill, VAT is value added tax, sort of like your State Tax only more, currently 15%, but exports would be tax free I believe, you may have to pay import duty though. Carriage is course Shipping  :) .
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 02:35:12 PM »
Hi Bill, VAT is value added tax, sort of like your State Tax only more, currently 15%, but exports would be tax free I believe, you may have to pay import duty though. Carriage is course Shipping  :) .

          Hey Malcolm, thanks for the explanation of that. Not having ever dealt with those terms, I had no clue on the "VAT" and an idea about "Carriage". ::)


                                Take care Malcom,  Bill ;) 
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2009, 02:39:12 PM »


       lordmoonpie, You need to be a bit more specific about this. Like, Did you just get this trans and have been having problems from the start or Have you been running it and then it started doing this?


                           Sent you another PM.


                             Take care, Bill ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2009, 03:46:45 AM »


       lordmoonpie, You need to be a bit more specific about this. Like, Did you just get this trans and have been having problems from the start or Have you been running it and then it started doing this?


                           Sent you another PM.


                             Take care, Bill ;)

Bill,

Thanks for your help - I'm chasing down some of those leads. Basically I've had the gearbox 2 years now and this is the time I've spent trying to get the blasted thing working. I have spoken to Nova but they have not been terribly helpful basically saying that they make a standard product and any fitting issues are down to variances in the engines they are installed in. I've now missed two seasons of racing this bike and as you have seen, the cost of this transmission is around an equivalent of $2000 USD so I'm keen that it actually works!!

The problems I have are as follows:

1. When I install the gearbox and shift drum, I can turn the drum by hand to select all six gears. I then bolt the crankcase up and add the new Nova supplied selector cage and neutral stopper mechanism and reinstall the standard shift fork to engage with the shift drum mechanism. If I then attach the foot lever, it will only allow me to select neutral, 2,3,4 not 1st 5th or 6th gear. I've done everything as per Nova instructions several times now but it still won't select. I've also attacehd the back wheel/chain to allow me to roll the gearbox around while shifting and still no joy. The shift arm just seems to run out of leverage.
2. I then bolt on the Nova dry clutch. As soon as the backing plate is in place the gearbox locks solid. Nova said this was a clearance issue (!) and supplied me with a 2mm aluminium gasket. It now doesn't lock the gearbox but of course the clutch drum is 2mm further in than it should be and the rivets on the back of it score the backing plate, plus the oil pump is now very loose as that elies on exact clearance and has been moved 2mm out which makes me very nervous indeed.

Oh, the dry clutch adds another packet of meny on to this so these two parts I'm into about $4000 USD and neither work, not happy...
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Offline malcolmgb

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2009, 08:21:31 AM »
Is this for the 350 or 450?
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2009, 08:39:45 AM »


      I can sure understand your being upset! Hopefully Ellis or that other fellow that you told me about, can help to get things right. I'm hoping to hear about you and that bike going and doing some racing, pretty soon. ;) Let us know how it turns out, okay?


                               Take care, Bill ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2009, 11:49:24 AM »
Is this for the 350 or 450?
Malcolm - it's for the CB450.

Bill, many thanks - I'll let you know how I get on. Have a possible drop for Sunday to take it to the guy who has built 6 of these so it won't be a quick fix but here's hoping it's quick enough to get me running by April and the season start...I'll keep you posted. ;D
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2009, 12:05:37 PM »
Is this for the 350 or 450?
Malcolm - it's for the CB450.

Bill, many thanks - I'll let you know how I get on. Have a possible drop for Sunday to take it to the guy who has built 6 of these so it won't be a quick fix but here's hoping it's quick enough to get me running by April and the season start...I'll keep you posted. ;D

          Simon, I'm just glad that I could be of some assistance. Looking forward to some details and photos of that 450 too. 8)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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Offline malcolmgb

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2009, 02:17:52 PM »
Is this for the 350 or 450?
Malcolm - it's for the CB450.

Bill, many thanks - I'll let you know how I get on. Have a possible drop for Sunday to take it to the guy who has built 6 of these so it won't be a quick fix but here's hoping it's quick enough to get me running by April and the season start...I'll keep you posted. ;D

hi Simon, I was going to ask if it was for Classic Racing, a walk around the paddock can usually find someone who can help, but you will already have tried that. I used to know John Davies, I think you will know who I mean, if I can catch up with him again when I return to the UK I can ask if he uses that box. Perhaps you could let us know any meetings you will be at this year maybe our paths will cross.
Malcolm

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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2009, 11:44:00 AM »
hi Simon, I was going to ask if it was for Classic Racing, a walk around the paddock can usually find someone who can help, but you will already have tried that. I used to know John Davies, I think you will know who I mean, if I can catch up with him again when I return to the UK I can ask if he uses that box. Perhaps you could let us know any meetings you will be at this year maybe our paths will cross.
Hi Malcolm,

yes I know John very well, spent many a year spannering for a stablemate of his in the Manx GP (Dean Martin) and I still see him at the Stafford shows etc. I hope to be back racing this year but after 2 years off I'm contemplating moving down a class to a 250 Ducati or just perhaps doing the Aintree season on the Bomber to get back into things again (it's close to me so less aggro). What meetings do you go to?
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Offline malcolmgb

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2009, 06:15:47 PM »
I try to get to a few meetings at Donington & Mallory, both local to me, I also go to the Stafford Shows.
I knew John from my days working for Dave Orton at Appleby Glade.
Malcolm

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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2009, 12:26:18 PM »
So - all set to take the enigne in to D&M Engineering in Newark (UK) this weekend and then Nova pop up and say they'll take a look at it. I said what I was up to and did they want to see it first.....so far no response so Plan A is on the cards. More later....and a resolution I hope!
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2009, 12:31:26 PM »
Simon, let me know when and where you are out, might be able to get to a few of the local meets if you need a lift, be glad to help after all you have done for me.

Sam. ;)
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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2009, 03:15:27 AM »
Simon, let me know when and where you are out, might be able to get to a few of the local meets if you need a lift, be glad to help after all you have done for me.

Sam. ;)
Sam, that's really great of you to offer - if I ever get the darn thing sorted in time to run this season I'll let you know, thanks a bunch mate.  ;D
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2009, 06:28:51 AM »


       Hey Simon, when you get a chance, could you either post some photos of your bike or email me some? ??? Sure like to see what you've got going there. :) Over on the "twins site" that one didn't take.
Here's hoping things get sorted out soon, so you can put THAT one out on the track, where she belongs. ;)


                             Take care, Bill ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2009, 01:34:01 PM »


       Hey Simon, when you get a chance, could you either post some photos of your bike or email me some? ??? Sure like to see what you've got going there. :)

You mean like these Bill.....?  ;D
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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2009, 01:34:51 PM »
and these...?!  :D
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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2009, 03:57:08 PM »


       Hey Simon, when you get a chance, could you either post some photos of your bike or email me some? ??? Sure like to see what you've got going there. :)

You mean like these Bill.....?  ;D


       OH MAN!!!!!!! :o 8) I think I'm in SEVENTH Heaven!! 8)  (after seeing those 1st shots)

        And EIGHTEENTH,After seeing those other 2 shots!!!


                      Thanks for that Simon! ;) I appreciate those shots of your bike. 8)

     
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 04:02:28 PM by bill440cars »
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline scunny

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 09:32:48 PM »
cheers for that. on a side note............interesting rear shock angle. they are all prob like that and I've only just noticed
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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2009, 04:22:56 AM »
cheers for that. on a side note............interesting rear shock angle. they are all prob like that and I've only just noticed
Well spotted Scunny - they are not standard position. They're mounted about 2 inches further forward on the swingarm to jack up the back end a bit and give the tyre clearance under the back of the seat when my great fat derriere is on it! well thats' how it works - the modified swingarm mount points came with the bike when I bought all the parts - seemed like a good idea to use them...
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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2009, 04:24:17 AM »
       OH MAN!!!!!!! :o 8) I think I'm in SEVENTH Heaven!! 8)  (after seeing those 1st shots)

        And EIGHTEENTH,After seeing those other 2 shots!!!


                      Thanks for that Simon! ;) I appreciate those shots of your bike. 8)

     
Thanks Bill - she is a cutie isn't she  ;D

Mind you - if you like this, wait until you see the CR750 when she's finished, hopefully in a matter of a few months!
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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2009, 07:26:28 AM »
       OH MAN!!!!!!! :o 8) I think I'm in SEVENTH Heaven!! 8)  (after seeing those 1st shots)

        And EIGHTEENTH,After seeing those other 2 shots!!!


                      Thanks for that Simon! ;) I appreciate those shots of your bike. 8)

     
Thanks Bill - she is a cutie isn't she  ;D

Mind you - if you like this, wait until you see the CR750 when she's finished, hopefully in a matter of a few months!

         Yeah Simon, she's something else alright. 8) ;) Oh Yeah, I'm a sucker for race bikes, cause I know that EVERYTHING on it is only there for a specific purpose. :) Ill be looking for it. ;)

                         Take care, Bill ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline malcolmgb

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2009, 07:36:41 AM »
Looks great Simon, let us all know when and where you will be racing or testing I would like to see it in the flesh, Darley Moor  :D is also a local circuit to me.
Malcolm

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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2009, 12:12:13 PM »
Looks great Simon, let us all know when and where you will be racing or testing I would like to see it in the flesh, Darley Moor  :D is also a local circuit to me.
Hi Malcolm, Darley is pretty close for me too but they stopped us running classics there about 4 years ago. Do you know if they've started up a new classic race class?
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2009, 12:56:55 PM »
Any news on the gearbox yet Simon ?

Sam. ;)
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2009, 03:51:25 PM »
Any news on the gearbox yet Simon ?

Sam. ;)

       Yeah, anxious to know about that myself. :)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2009, 04:13:47 AM »
Yes! After three days he's noticed the oil pump is missing....I didn't take it in with the engine. A good sign I'm sure...  :o
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 01:03:06 PM by lordmoonpie »
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
1981 Yamaha XV750 SE

Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2009, 01:04:11 PM »
Ooo -it's all fixed apparently! The gearbox was a minor tweak, the clutch locking up something simple but more involved....more than that I won't know until I can pick it up a week tomorrow. Arrrrgh! The suspense is killing me....! :-\
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
1981 Yamaha XV750 SE

Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2009, 02:18:53 AM »
Spoke to Dave this morning....the gearbox was sorted very quickly. Apparently it's just stiff, very stiff, being newly machines to modern tolerances but now it selects all 6 gears. The clutch was locking up the gearbox as soon as the crankcase part was fitted still. Dave took the spacers off that Nova gave me and found that the nova cases fouled the primary drive gear so when it was all bolted up the nova crankcase cover pushed on the primary gear and effectively sandwiched it solid.

Dave machined a slice off the primary gear to clear the cases and it's all free and easy now so job's a good 'un.

Now I'm going to talk to Nova about the problem - what do you think my chances are of getting them to pay part of the bill, yeah I know, some where between no hope and Bob Hope!  :D
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
1981 Yamaha XV750 SE

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2009, 02:10:10 PM »
Nova are hope less ;D ;D ;D
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2009, 06:47:52 AM »
It's official, Nova Transmissions are very very hopeless and not only that, given that they advertise close ratio gear boxes and dry clutches for the CB450, I think they might also be in breach of rules around advertising.....here's what we found and bear in mind through all of this that one gearbox and one dry clutch has cost me £2500 JUST TO BUY IT.

The gearbox fits fine in the crank cases (unlike the 750 gearbox which I had to modify to fit with different shims - That was £1500). However, when bolted up it wouldn't select 1,5 and 6 gears. This was eventually traced to the gear selector fork design - they fouled the inside of my standard CB450 crank cases so preventing gear selection. You try and select gear and the selector fork jammed against the top of the cases inside. The modification to get around the poor design was to shave grooves into the inside of the crankcases to get clearance. These are supposed to be drop in and go transmissions!

Next the dry clutch. Two problems here but related. Nova supply the dry clutch with a new primary drive gear. When the clutch crankcase cover they supply is bolted to the standard main cases on the CB450, the inside of the clutch cover grips their own primary drive gear and holds it solid - result, one locked up engine. It's like stacking glasses inside one another and jamming the top one in.

Nova's solution that they have in their own admission used on several CB450 customers is to supply a 1mm thick aluminum spacer to move the case out and prevent the gear fouling. This is fine until you install the clutch basket and it becomes 1mm closer in relative terms to the crankcase side cover. Result - the clutch basket rivets cut a deep groove in the cover - not good!

The solution was to take their primary drive gear and chamfer the edges to clear the inside of the clutch case casting. Result - everything turns fine with some small resitance. So, next job was to work out what was causing that resistance. Turns out the primary drive gear also fouls the standard oil dipstick so I have to either cut it off or get an aftermaket breather.

I questioned Nova about this yesterday. Their response was that the castings of the cover could vary and if the guy had a bad day casting them the tolerances couldn't be guaranteed. And this is my problem why!? Their caster is a subcontractor to them, not to me and it is their legal responsibility to ensure that what they supply to the end customer does what they advertise it does - plainly it doesn't.

They then let slip that since the original castings, of which mine may have been one, they now machine the covers and don't cast them....so clearly they were aware of the flaws in the results that the cast method produced but were still happy to sell them on at around £1000.

I asked for my cover to be replaced which they agreed to do BUT they want the cover back first and cannot guarantee when they will send another one out to me - in their words "it could be months". I just can;t risk missing another season - I've probably already got track rusty and so don't want to take this option.

So, finally my bike works and it will run when back in the frame for sure. That's cost me a further £250 to sort out and two days of travelling/petrol costs.

I haven't had a single product from Nova that has fitted without modification and I've recently found out a friend and very accomplished bike engineer has had exactly the same experience. How these people are allowed to trade these products when they are not fit for the purpose they are advertised for is beyond me.

My advice - save your money and put it elsewhere in the bike, Nova won't help you with the problems they send you and you're going to pay a lot for the privilege of solving their design shortfalls.... >:(
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
1981 Yamaha XV750 SE

Offline MRieck

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Re: Honda Twins site - Nova Gearbox problems
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2009, 08:12:16 AM »
I think Nova and JMC share the same business philosophy Simon. ::)
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"