Author Topic: What gives?!?  (Read 11152 times)

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Offline TheHun

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What gives?!?
« on: January 02, 2009, 01:26:17 PM »
I am trying to get my bike started >:(

I got clear blue sparks on all cylinders. Points fire.  Gap set at .014

Carbs are getting fuel-checked float chamber and the spark plugs are wet after trying to start.

Tried starting choked and un choked. It is about 50-55degrees right now.

When it does start it runs really rich and has terrible throttle response. What gives?

I am about to take it to a shop and have them get it running, but all the parts so far tested out in working condition.

I am thinking either the timing is way off or carbs are out of synch.
1978 Honda CB750-K

CBR F3 Coils
Kerker 4.1 Header w/ turn down
Maxi-Dwell Ignition
Foam Air Filter Pods
Superbike bars
Starter Delete

CARB CLEANING/REBUILD: http://www.wix.com/TheHun/CarbCleaning-Site

Not Running to Running, doing the work yourself= Priceless

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2009, 01:40:50 PM »
I'd say follow the tune-up procedures in youy repair manual (search this site for a downloadable copy if you don't have one) and put in a fresh set of plugs.  Wet, carbon fouled plugs aren't going to fire right, especially under compression.
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Offline gregimotis

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2009, 01:42:22 PM »
When did it last run and how?

If it ran well until you parked it for the winter it probably isn't timing, but rather gummed up fuel in the carbs.


If it hasn't ever run, and you haven't checked the timing yet, then I guess that's a good place to start.
You can set the timing with the naked eye well enough to get an otherwise functioning bike running - and you can do it with a feeler gauge really well in ten or fifteen minutes (and some care).



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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2009, 02:27:01 PM »
Well you've got spark, you've got fuel, have you got compression? Have you checked your valve clearances mate? If they're too tight, your valves aren't sealing, so you've got little or no compression.

Also, as has been said before, if it's been sitting with fuel in the carbs, more than likely your pilot jets are blocked, and will need thorough cleaning, not just a quick spray with carb cleaner.

Synching the carbs at this point (not that you can do it with the engine running that poorly anyway) would be a waste of time, and would make very little difference.

How fresh is the gas? Modern fuel breakes down very quickly, and becomes useless, (particularly in higher compression engines) so if you're not sure when you bought it, drain it out and throw it on your weeds. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline TheHun

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2009, 02:38:03 PM »
The fuel is brand new. I just got done de-rusting the tank couple of days ago.

The motor ran and idled when I got it, it was rough but it was also in 10 degree weather when I got it. The bike was ridden before I got it too.

I quite frankly dont know much about carbureted bike, I come from FZ6/R6 bikes.
1978 Honda CB750-K

CBR F3 Coils
Kerker 4.1 Header w/ turn down
Maxi-Dwell Ignition
Foam Air Filter Pods
Superbike bars
Starter Delete

CARB CLEANING/REBUILD: http://www.wix.com/TheHun/CarbCleaning-Site

Not Running to Running, doing the work yourself= Priceless

Offline Kalamazoo

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2009, 02:53:20 PM »
Is the rubber from carbs to engine or carbs to airbox cracked?
M.R.

Offline TheHun

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2009, 03:17:13 PM »
Nope they look good and dont bubble when you test for cracks
1978 Honda CB750-K

CBR F3 Coils
Kerker 4.1 Header w/ turn down
Maxi-Dwell Ignition
Foam Air Filter Pods
Superbike bars
Starter Delete

CARB CLEANING/REBUILD: http://www.wix.com/TheHun/CarbCleaning-Site

Not Running to Running, doing the work yourself= Priceless

Offline ekpent

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2009, 03:29:42 PM »
Lets see I have never had a 77 or 78 750,just older ones,but that has a choke cable correct? Is there any chance that the cable is not working right and the choke butterflies may be sticking in the on position and making it too rich. Just a guess

Offline TheHun

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2009, 03:54:47 PM »
Choke is working as it should. It got me cornered. I will take a compression check, but I havent seen any oil on the spark plugs at all. When it ran it didnt smoke or knocked
1978 Honda CB750-K

CBR F3 Coils
Kerker 4.1 Header w/ turn down
Maxi-Dwell Ignition
Foam Air Filter Pods
Superbike bars
Starter Delete

CARB CLEANING/REBUILD: http://www.wix.com/TheHun/CarbCleaning-Site

Not Running to Running, doing the work yourself= Priceless

KingCustomCycles.com

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2009, 04:26:27 PM »
If it is running rich, you have too much fuel or not enough air, or both.  I don't restate the obvious to annoy you, I do it so you cover the basics thoroughly.  Jet sizes, blocked air intake, float height, faulty float needle seal, bumped the kill switch on the bars at some point, Hope this helps.

Offline TheHun

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2009, 04:57:24 PM »
Completely stock bike
Ran it with both airbox and without airbox..same results

Now...i have noticed that the points fire sometime and sometime it doesnt. How much spark should the points produce?
1978 Honda CB750-K

CBR F3 Coils
Kerker 4.1 Header w/ turn down
Maxi-Dwell Ignition
Foam Air Filter Pods
Superbike bars
Starter Delete

CARB CLEANING/REBUILD: http://www.wix.com/TheHun/CarbCleaning-Site

Not Running to Running, doing the work yourself= Priceless

KingCustomCycles.com

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2009, 05:05:31 PM »
If your points are sparking your condensors are bad and may be your problem.

Offline TheHun

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2009, 05:08:43 PM »
Are they not suppose to at all? I get an occasional bigger spark, and then if you look closely you can see tiny sparks when the points seperate when trying to start. Sometimes the sparks come out .5-1" from the base plate
1978 Honda CB750-K

CBR F3 Coils
Kerker 4.1 Header w/ turn down
Maxi-Dwell Ignition
Foam Air Filter Pods
Superbike bars
Starter Delete

CARB CLEANING/REBUILD: http://www.wix.com/TheHun/CarbCleaning-Site

Not Running to Running, doing the work yourself= Priceless

Offline 754

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2009, 08:00:29 PM »
Plugs..replace.

 Clean your points..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline TheHun

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2009, 05:33:43 AM »
Ok, something weird happened.

When I was testing the plugs again for spark. When I was going to test Number 2. I put the spark plug against the head pressed the start button and it shocked me. It did it numerous times. No I did not touch the spark plugs with my hands or anything like that, held it by the spark plug boots.
1978 Honda CB750-K

CBR F3 Coils
Kerker 4.1 Header w/ turn down
Maxi-Dwell Ignition
Foam Air Filter Pods
Superbike bars
Starter Delete

CARB CLEANING/REBUILD: http://www.wix.com/TheHun/CarbCleaning-Site

Not Running to Running, doing the work yourself= Priceless

Offline HondanutRider

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2009, 05:58:28 AM »
If they "shock" you, likely your spark boots and/or cables are needing replacement.  If they are cracked and let the spark ground out before the plug can get it, then there would be little chance of staring or give very erratic behavior.  Make sure they are dry (i.e no moisture condensation) and touching any frame or motor if possible.  Maybe heating them up first with a hair dyer or (carefully) a heat gun would make a difference.

Offline cbr-eric

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2009, 07:19:04 AM »
is your accelerator pump working? pull the slow jets and clean them. both things I just learned and they make a big difference.  the little nozzles in the carb throats should all squirt a good amount of fuel when you whack open the throttle.  slow jets are pressed in and can be pulled with pliers carefully.
k8 project, a long way from done.....

Offline 754

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2009, 10:47:18 AM »
change plugs...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline TwoTired

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2009, 11:48:46 AM »
The points will show some arcing.  That is normal.  The condensers reduce this arcing but do not eliminate it.  Are your coils stock?  When the coils fire, they generate high voltage at the primary, too.  The condenser eases the voltage peaks seen across the points.   Open condensers will make the arcing worse.  Resistive/leaky condensers will make the arcing less pronounced and also make the spark voltage at the plugs weaker.

If it runs rich as you say, the plugs will build up carbon and shunt the spark energy away, instead of jumping the gap.  New plugs will solve this temporarily, while you get the over-rich problem sorted.

Getting shocked from the wires could be many things, including dirt on the leads and wires.  Electricity takes the path of least resistance. With the lead end in open air, it will find a return path the best it can. If that is dirt and your body parts, so be it.  You can clean the outer surfaces with alcohol, which should lessen the problem.  Other wise, use insulating gloves while handling.

Remember, two plugs fire at the same time, and current flows from one plug to the other during the event.  The cylinder head is also in this current path, if you insert yourself in that path, you will become a conductor in the current path.

Cheers,

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2009, 12:01:22 PM »
Have you bothered to clean the carbs? If you had to derust the tank, there is a good chance that rust found its way into the carbs, fresh gas or not. Pull the airbox off and twist the throttle. Is there a jet of gas from the brass tubes in each of the 4 carbs at the opening? If not, that needs to be cleaned and set. Have you cleaned the carbs at all? If not, pull them and clean the jets out. the idle jets get clogged easily, especially if there was rust present. That same rust could have blocked the float valves open some and there could be too much gas in the bowls. 

Offline TheHun

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2009, 04:27:20 PM »
I will try some of the pointers from you guys. I am getting an ignition tune up kit. Ill check to make sure its squirting fuel and such.

thanks a lot for the responses
1978 Honda CB750-K

CBR F3 Coils
Kerker 4.1 Header w/ turn down
Maxi-Dwell Ignition
Foam Air Filter Pods
Superbike bars
Starter Delete

CARB CLEANING/REBUILD: http://www.wix.com/TheHun/CarbCleaning-Site

Not Running to Running, doing the work yourself= Priceless

Offline cbr-eric

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2009, 04:32:31 PM »
your welcome, and where are you getting the kit? what is in it? I ask as I may be wanting one soon myself :)
k8 project, a long way from done.....

Offline TheHun

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2009, 06:58:40 PM »
1978 Honda CB750-K

CBR F3 Coils
Kerker 4.1 Header w/ turn down
Maxi-Dwell Ignition
Foam Air Filter Pods
Superbike bars
Starter Delete

CARB CLEANING/REBUILD: http://www.wix.com/TheHun/CarbCleaning-Site

Not Running to Running, doing the work yourself= Priceless

Offline 754

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2009, 08:05:52 PM »
did you change plugs?
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline seaweb11

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Re: What gives?!?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2009, 08:56:32 PM »
I'd say follow the tune-up procedures in youy repair manual (search this site for a downloadable copy if you don't have one) and put in a fresh set of plugs.  Wet, carbon fouled plugs aren't going to fire right, especially under compression.


If it runs rich as you say, the plugs will build up carbon and shunt the spark energy away, instead of jumping the gap.  New plugs will solve this temporarily, while you get the over-rich problem sorted.


did you change plugs?


plugs would be a quick try ;)  These people know there stuff.

You might just have a spare tune up kit when it arrives.  :)