Author Topic: Caliper Piston...Replace ? Pic (Read 8740 times)

Bill K · « **on:** January 03, 2009, 10:43:56 AM »

Brakes squeeking...going through caliper clean, new seal. Should I replace this piston ? Pits to bad ? Thanks

bert96 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2009, 10:50:54 AM »

Replace it with phenolic piston.

Kemp · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2009, 10:56:41 AM »

Pray tell, what is a phenolic piston, why is it better and who would carry this item?

Bill K · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2009, 10:59:49 AM »

yea, go ahead with it.. NICE AVATAR !

bert96 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:07:41 AM »

I bought two for my bike from Kevin Hunter.They are made by Ford for their Lincoln.They will never rust(it's not plastic but it's look like it) much lighter than the OEM piston.

bert96 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:09:31 AM »

I still have his email,pm me if you want more information from him.

TwoTired · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:14:25 AM »

That piston is reusable.

Sealing isn't and issue. However, when the pits do eventually get deep enough, they interfere with piston retraction and cause brake drag. I doubt yours is to that point though.

Make sure you use the correct chemicals and lubes for reassembly, and it should serve another 10 years.

Cheers,

Bill K · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:33:26 AM »

Thanks TT, thats what I wanted to hear ! Silicon grease right ? One of my manuals says no "brake grease". Sorry, I read this in detail in a previous thread, been searchn, cant find it.

TwoTired · « **Reply #8 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:59:08 AM »

I wrote a caliper rebuild walk through many years ago. This was placed in the brake FAQ.

The brake assembly lube is kind of hard to find these days, as the popularity of reconditioning brake components has given way to the rebuilt offerings in the automotive arena.

Beware, the silicon grease offering, too. There should be NO petroleum content in the silicone grease. Dow Corning High vacuum grease is the only offering I know about that is pure silicone grease and won't melt or creep into the brake pads. It's only function is to keep water from contacting the metal bits behind the brake pucks. Since it doesn't mix with anything, it is ideally suited for this task, and a thin coating is all that is needed to keep water and other contaminants from corroding those parts.

Cheers,

Artfrombama · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2009, 01:54:27 PM »

Call me a redneck/shadetree/backyard engineer but my piston was pitted much worse than that.
I bead-blasted the pits then filled them with JB Weld and sanded smooth.

No leaks so far.

Ace · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2009, 02:15:46 PM »

I filled my pits up with epoxy and sanded it smooth. Works well, no leaks or dragging.

Bill K · « **Reply #11 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:35:04 PM »

If the pits were any worse, Id definitely go with the fill and sand idea. I'm all about the fix it, use it and save a buck !

bert96 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2009, 08:27:31 AM »

I refuse to have parts like that on bike,for me it's always an excuse to change parts, and in the same time update with better quality

voxonda · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2009, 08:32:07 AM »

If ever there comes a time I had to use these kind of brakeparts, I quit riding. We are talking brakes(!) here, never ever save a buck here!

bert96 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2009, 08:58:34 AM »

I should say upgrade and not update!

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:00:21 AM »

I don't think it's a question of saving a buck here will DECREASE the quality of braking. I think it's a question of...

Do I want to go out and spend $$ in this economic climate? Or can I recondition my existing parts for less than the cost of a new one and still be able to perform at stock levels?

That would be how I would look at it.

Artfrombama · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:26:32 AM »

Quote from: HavocTurbo on January 04, 2009, 09:00:21 AM

I don't think it's a question of saving a buck here will DECREASE the quality of braking. I think it's a question of...

Do I want to go out and spend $$ in this economic climate? Or can I recondition my existing parts for less than the cost of a new one and still be able to perform at stock levels?

That would be how I would look at it.

What was my determining factor, did I want to wait another 1-1.5 weeks for a replacement or do a quick repair and ride?

TwoTired · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2009, 10:42:57 AM »

On my first front caliper rebuild, I took a piston in worse shape than pictured to my Honda dealer. After the counterman told me the price of a new one, and watched all the blood drain from my face, he called the mechanic to the parts counter to have a look. One glance at it, and he said. "It looks brand new, reuse it!" (Lawyers might drool over potential liability suits. But, I think all they would gain is a dry mouth.)

Anyway, I did reuse it, and that was well over 15 years ago. The front brake caliper has never leaked, and after I switched to S.S. braided hydraulic lines, will squall the front tire if you squeeze the brake lever hard enough. It's a 550 with a big Jammer fairing on it.

I can't see any compromise in brake performance by reusing the old caliper piston in the condition posted.

Having said that. I already bought 5 of those Phenolic pistons from Kevin for eventual use in my fleet, as I have a couple pistons corroded beyond service life (determined by the amount of seal distortion in large corrosion pits). The bad ones don't leak, but they do drag because they won't retract properly. I haven't actually need to install any Phenolics yet. But, I see no reason why they wouldn't give a lasting benefit due to their anti corrosion characteristics. And, they were cheaper than any other replacement I could find. I do NOT expect them to improve brake performance. Only brake durability with time. So, they may be better brakes in the long term, but probably not in the next 5-10 years.

The high brow argument of spending max money on brakes because it is "safer", is a hollow argument without any reasonable fact to back it up, in this case. Spend your money where you wish, if it makes you feel good. If laying a guilt trip on someone else is your thing, I don't see a real benefit to either giver or recipient.

If spending money is the only criteria, then those SUV drivers must be better than the econo drivers in commute traffic too, right? Perhaps that's an ideal shared by Harley drivers? More money = a better bike?

Cheers,

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:30:57 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on January 04, 2009, 10:42:57 AM

If spending money is the only criteria, then those SUV drivers must be better than the econo drivers in commute traffic too, right? Perhaps that's an ideal shared by Harley drivers? More money = a better bike?

Cheers,

My stepfather just bout an 08 Ultra Classic II.... Says anything with the bar and shield on it is an extra Hundred Dollars = HD

Good thing he has more money than god. I'll stick to my "off brands" thank you.

voxonda · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2009, 01:04:23 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on January 04, 2009, 10:42:57 AM

...
1)I can't see any compromise in brake performance by reusing the old caliper piston in the condition posted.
...
2)The high brow argument of spending max money on brakes because it is "safer", is a hollow argument without any reasonable fact to back it up, in this case. Spend your money where you wish, if it makes you feel good.
3)If laying a guilt trip on someone else is your thing, I don't see a real benefit to either giver or recipient.

@1) I(!) think that is one of the few things that makes sence.
@2) Who mentioned that, and where?
@3) What the ...

are you suggesting?

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2009, 01:07:40 PM »

LOL and it starts.....

Steve F · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2009, 01:50:53 PM »

I've used pistons in worse shape than that one in the photo and have not had a single problem. The main point is to be sure that the seal will cover any pits, or in other words the pits won't span the width of the seal, and leak past.
What I see in the last few posts are arguments going toward the idea that the brakes are your life, which in fact they are, and that there is "no way you should skimp" on replacement parts. My take on all of this is if you want to spend, spend, spend, then by all means, spend away. I also see the points that are "not everything NEEDS" to be factory perfect to perform and BE SAFE as the brand new factory bike. For instance, the things that you shouldn't compromise would be the brake lines, which if they were to fail, that would be considered a catrostophic failure, and something that could put your life in immediate danger. A pitted piston, worst case scenario would be a leak of fluid, and most likely would be noticed if the owner would clean and inspect his bike on a regular interval. There ARE priorities, and there are NON-priorities, and a pitted piston just doesn't make the priority list.

TwoTired · « **Reply #22 on:** January 04, 2009, 01:56:17 PM »

Quote from: HavocTurbo on January 04, 2009, 01:07:40 PM

LOL and it starts.....

...and ends ... gets recycled... ad nauseam.

Artfrombama · « **Reply #23 on:** January 04, 2009, 01:57:45 PM »

Just being the devil's advocate here, not trying to get in anybody's #$%*;

But when does being a mechanic end and being a parts replacement tech begin?

When I see a drop of brake fluid hanging from the caliper, I'll order the new piston and replacement seal.

voxonda · « **Reply #24 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:08:48 PM »

...and ends.

[/quote]

Think that is the best thing to do.

voxonda · « **Reply #25 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:14:00 PM »

Quote from: Artfrombama on January 04, 2009, 01:57:45 PM

But when does being a mechanic end and being a parts replacement tech begin?

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #26 on:** January 04, 2009, 04:58:37 PM »

Quote from: Artfrombama on January 04, 2009, 01:57:45 PM

Just being the devil's advocate here, not trying to get in anybody's #$%*;

But when does being a mechanic end and being a parts replacement tech begin?

When I see a drop of brake fluid hanging from the caliper, I'll order the new piston and replacement seal.

Well I'll play with you....

If I see a drop of brake fluid hanging from the caliper I first check my lines. Then my pads. Then I take it off and check the piston and seal before I go down to honda or where ever and replace them.

What's the point in replacing something that can be either reconditioned or still useable with a new or different part? 9 times out of 10 it's the seal not the piston. And on the off chance that it is the piston.... JB weld and sandpaper work as well as getting it tig welded and placed in a lathe for smoothing.

that work for you?

Steve F · « **Reply #27 on:** January 04, 2009, 05:11:45 PM »

Quote from: HavocTurbo on January 04, 2009, 04:58:37 PM

And on the off chance that it is the piston.... JB weld and sandpaper work as well as getting it tig welded and placed in a lathe for smoothing.

Just a side note.....The pistons are chrome plated, and the pits come from the chrome coming off in little flakes.....and cannot be tig welded. The JB weld would be the best bet if you feel the need to fill the pits.

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #28 on:** January 04, 2009, 05:19:47 PM »

Quote from: Steve F on January 04, 2009, 05:11:45 PM

Quote from: HavocTurbo on January 04, 2009, 04:58:37 PM
And on the off chance that it is the piston.... JB weld and sandpaper work as well as getting it tig welded and placed in a lathe for smoothing.
Just a side note.....The pistons are chrome plated, and the pits come from the chrome coming off in little flakes.....and cannot be tig welded. The JB weld would be the best bet if you feel the need to fill the pits.

Well then there you go.... Obviously I have never had to rebuild my caliper so.... But the yamaha ones I have suck and have welded them several times.

Artfrombama · « **Reply #29 on:** January 04, 2009, 05:45:29 PM »

Quote from: HavocTurbo on January 04, 2009, 04:58:37 PM

Quote from: Artfrombama on January 04, 2009, 01:57:45 PM
Just being the devil's advocate here, not trying to get in anybody's #$%*;

But when does being a mechanic end and being a parts replacement tech begin?

When I see a drop of brake fluid hanging from the caliper, I'll order the new piston and replacement seal.

Well I'll play with you....

If I see a drop of brake fluid hanging from the caliper I first check my lines. Then my pads. Then I take it off and check the piston and seal before I go down to honda or where ever and replace them.

What's the point in replacing something that can be either reconditioned or still useable with a new or different part? 9 times out of 10 it's the seal not the piston. And on the off chance that it is the piston.... JB weld and sandpaper work as well as getting it tig welded and placed in a lathe for smoothing.

that work for you?

I think we think alike

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #30 on:** January 04, 2009, 06:32:02 PM »

You need anything let me know

Artfrombama · « **Reply #31 on:** January 04, 2009, 08:19:24 PM »

Quote from: HavocTurbo on January 04, 2009, 06:32:02 PM

You need anything let me know

I got your back ol' podnuh.

goon 1492 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 05, 2009, 07:13:52 AM »

well this answers my questions and gets me a giggle

....
I managed to get mine apart after breaking my speedo cable where is mounts to the gearbox...
I largest pit i have in mine is maybe .5mm in dia. I think I will try the jbweld trick because the rest of the piston is goony I mean goody.
Man those Japanese folks even put the "bling" inside the brakes back in the day......

WrightStuff · « **Reply #33 on:** March 26, 2009, 03:53:37 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on January 04, 2009, 10:42:57 AM

On my first front caliper rebuild, I took a piston in worse shape than pictured to my Honda dealer. After the counterman told me the price of a new one, and watched all the blood drain from my face, he called the mechanic to the parts counter to have a look. One glance at it, and he said. "It looks brand new, reuse it!" (Lawyers might drool over potential liability suits. But, I think all they would gain is a dry mouth.)

Anyway, I did reuse it, and that was well over 15 years ago. The front brake caliper has never leaked, and after I switched to S.S. braided hydraulic lines, will squall the front tire if you squeeze the brake lever hard enough. It's a 550 with a big Jammer fairing on it.

I can't see any compromise in brake performance by reusing the old caliper piston in the condition posted.

Having said that. I already bought 5 of those Phenolic pistons from Kevin for eventual use in my fleet, as I have a couple pistons corroded beyond service life (determined by the amount of seal distortion in large corrosion pits). The bad ones don't leak, but they do drag because they won't retract properly. I haven't actually need to install any Phenolics yet. But, I see no reason why they wouldn't give a lasting benefit due to their anti corrosion characteristics. And, they were cheaper than any other replacement I could find. I do NOT expect them to improve brake performance. Only brake durability with time. So, they may be better brakes in the long term, but probably not in the next 5-10 years.

The high brow argument of spending max money on brakes because it is "safer", is a hollow argument without any reasonable fact to back it up, in this case. Spend your money where you wish, if it makes you feel good. If laying a guilt trip on someone else is your thing, I don't see a real benefit to either giver or recipient.

If spending money is the only criteria, then those SUV drivers must be better than the econo drivers in commute traffic too, right? Perhaps that's an ideal shared by Harley drivers? More money = a better bike?

Cheers,

TT where did you end up getting your Steel Lines? I'm looking for some now...did you go through cyclebrakes.com?

Thanks!

TwoTired · « **Reply #34 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:40:32 PM »

Quote from: WrightStuff on March 26, 2009, 03:53:37 PM

TT where did you end up getting your Steel Lines? I'm looking for some now...did you go through cyclebrakes.com?

I bought mine from South Bay Cycles. Tom makes them in his shop to customer specifications.
408- 263-2475

Cheers,

WrightStuff · « **Reply #35 on:** April 04, 2009, 10:24:19 AM »

Thanks TT, I got them from Tom earlier this week and put them on the bike yesterday. Was hoping for black to keep original look but he needed to cut off 3+ inches on each end to get the fittings on. I just cut off the black coating and am going with a slightly more modern custom look of silver. They were also slightly longer than the originals but seem to fit OK - will need to fix some where under the headlight to keep it from slightly covering my tach. Other than that great, fast service with a good price.

Pic of when I got them...

I'm waiting on the seal and new hard line from Honda and will then install new EBC pads with all the parts cleaned and renewed. I also am repainting the caliper.

TT the front brake rebuild walk through you did several years ago was invaluable.

kos · « **Reply #36 on:** April 04, 2009, 11:10:33 AM »

Bert 96

I gota ask. Where did you get that movie of that women un zipp'n her top? does it go further?

Dirty old man...

KOS

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Author Topic: Caliper Piston...Replace ? Pic (Read 8740 times)