Topic: kiss the 1100 goodbye

[DammitDan]

Guzzi WAS going to get pulled from one of only 2 dealerships available in TN...  They apparently just weren't selling.  Don't know what happened though.

[tramp]

to me the 919 was a hell of a good idea
it just had a bone ugly gas tank

[rbmgf7]

gosh, i want to move to europe or japan just because they have ALL the cool bikes (MT-01, MT-02, XT660, Transalp, etc). nothing here seems to meet my needs. i'm not a big of an oddfire v-twin. i'd like to have a smooth ride if i plan on travelling hundreds of miles a day.

i guess the motorcycle and car (specifically sport/muscle) can't be related. figure the cars nowadays (challenger, mustang, soon-to-be camaro) are basically taking on the retro-appearence of their 70's relatives. figure the motorcycle companies could shoot for the same. what better way to celebrate the biggest impact on motorcycling history other than re-releasing a motorcycle replicating the CB750? i know we had a few occurances when harley riders come up and ask about our bike or others say "i had one of those back in the day!"
it's hard to believe the 919 flopped. i was looking into the smaller 599 since i heard so many GOOD things about it only to discover they're both discontinued. i talked to a guy who got a really nice used 919. all he could tell me was it was a great bike to have all around. rode and sat more comfortably then a sport while just as fast.

it seems there are only 3 categories of riders in the US: V-twins, sport, and goldwings. v-twins for the retired older ride who still adheres to his/her wild side, sport for the younger guy/girs (did see a really attractive girl the other day at walmart getting on her R-6, HOT!) or anyone with the need for speed, and goldwings for the retired who don't like the v-twin vibrations and noise. none of these i personally fit into (mainly because i'm not retired yet, lol). but, that's just me. one guy.

but like it was stated, i guess it boils down to economics and politics. boo.

[bill440cars]

      Makes ME wonder just how much they can DO to a V-Twin before they go on to something else?

      I also agree that if Honda would have put as much effort into the "Transverse V-Twin", I can't believe that they couldn't have hit on a model that would b a hit. Of course, I wouldn't want to see  Moto Guzzi go under either.

      Myself, I've never really thought much about those style of bikes, for me. I kinda liked the old Indian 841, even though the Honda CX500 looks kinda nice I never saw myself wanting one (had a chance a couple of years ago to pick one up cheap, that had an oil leak at the rear of the engine and the owner took it apart and gave up), but the one model of the Guzzi has caught my eye.

       Sorry, didn't mean to trail off like that and do a slight hijacking of this thread. Let me get back on track by saying how disappointed I am that Honda isn't bringing the 1100F into the U.S. 

[HavocTurbo]

Well Moto Guzzi aside....

The transverse twin sucks. Especially by honda's standards.

Don't get me wrong, I like Guzzi's. They finally figured out how to place the cylinders so there is less twist on the frame and so forth. All around a great bike to ride.

But Honda.......

I'm sorry but the reason they stopped production was that no matter what they tried (500/650/Turbo) they still could not get that motor to perform. In all actuality it's widely believed that Honda built this motor specifically to be used in the Turbo application. And still.... FLOP.

I have worked on too many to count. Turbo's 650's 500's (there is a local collector here, although I don't know why) and they are all crap. From the oil passage design to the quality of metals used in the construction they are lacking in EVERY department.

I'm sorry I'll step off my soap box now. 

[HavocTurbo]

Just to show I'm not a cold hearted turd....

This happens to be my favorite Guzzi to date. 1988 Guzzi from Warsaw Poland. That's all I know.

[Ecosse]

just have to say havoc you're painting your self into a corner. that has to be one of the funniest avatars i've seen in i don't know how long! pretty soon, if not already, we'll come to expect it. pressure man.

i do not have any first hand experience with the guz but as i said before the cycle car folks love 'em. maybe that torque issue is less an issue in a car chassis. don't harley's have a similar 'problem' with big cc's? isn't that why some custom rides have their chain on the other side to counter the torque and wouldn't that help guzzi?

watch, soon the cruiser teat will be squeezed dry (nice imagery huh?) and they'll be clawing at the retro/ standard brassier like a hungry baby. maybe they're already testing the waters... well, not honda obviously. they rather have 52 varieties of 'hey harley is onto something' and thus perpetuating the stereotype that the japanese never come up with an original idea but copy with the best of them. 

[HavocTurbo]

just have to say havoc you're painting your self into a corner. that has to be one of the funniest avatars i've seen in i don't know how long! pretty soon, if not already, we'll come to expect it. pressure man.

No problem man. I tend to get bored with avatars so I change every now and then. More to come I assure you!!

i do not have any first hand experience with the guz but as i said before the cycle car folks love 'em. maybe that torque issue is less an issue in a car chassis. don't harley's have a similar 'problem' with big cc's? isn't that why some custom rides have their chain on the other side to counter the torque and wouldn't that help guzzi?

Well in my experience the Guzzi had less twist due to (what I think) the placement of the cylinders. They are splayed out more than on the Honda. Combine that with the lower height and center of gravity, I would hope it would handle a lot better.

watch, soon the cruiser teat will be squeezed dry (nice imagery huh?) and they'll be clawing at the retro/ standard brassier like a hungry baby. maybe they're already testing the waters... well, not honda obviously. they rather have 52 varieties of 'hey harley is onto something' and thus perpetuating the stereotype that the japanese never come up with an original idea but copy with the best of them. 

Cannot happen soon enough if you ask me. I own a 48 Panhead but I refuse to ride it. Ok so it's almost twice my age and cool as heck but still.... I don't like my testicles going numb. (picture that hahahaha)

[bill440cars]

       Makes me wonder if the new Triumph 1600cc Vertical Twin Thunderbird will be the start of a "New Trend".   It could happen.


                                We'll see,  Bill

[HavocTurbo]

       Makes me wonder if the new Triumph 1600cc Vertical Twin Thunderbird will be the start of a "New Trend".   It could happen.


                                We'll see,  Bill

I don't know. A lot of people in the last issue of cycle world were upset that it looked so much like a HD.

Forward pegs and the like.

I'll take that 2000cc single any day though lol. Just to say I can.

[754]

Ecosse, I think you are referring to the 6spd style and Right drive trannys you see a lot.

I dont think it has anything to do with torque, more sprocket access and offset. Big Twin front final sprockets were on a shaft rotating over the input shaft, and require removal of chaincases and clutch, to access.. that and amount of offset available was very little.

Having ridden a Beemer for at least 15K I will say this.. Torque reaction can be VERY noticeable at first, but soon is almost forgotten, you just get used to it.

[HavocTurbo]

Ecosse, I think you are referring to the 6spd style and Right drive trannys you see a lot.

I dont think it has anything to do with torque, more sprocket access and offset. Big Twin front final sprockets were on a shaft rotating over the input shaft, and require removal of chaincases and clutch, to access.. that and amount of offset available was very little.

Having ridden a Beemer for at least 15K I will say this.. Torque reaction can be VERY noticeable at first, but soon is almost forgotten, you just get used to it.

I actually like riding a beemer. Go figure.

[754]

How complete/stock is the 49?
EL or FL?

Can I have it?

[Ecosse]

[.... I don't like my testicles going numb. (picture that hahahaha)

then i would definitely not recommend the ice cube trick. 

there's some good points to be remembered here i think; that is the 'quirks' of a given design are sometimes the cool thing that people remember and once you get use to it it's really not an issue at all. it's what i think they call, character.

yeah, 754 what you said rings a bell. besides, and torque reaction from a big twin would be, i'd think, a desirable quality and not something you'd wanna subdue. my first car, a '68 road runner, would pull up the left fender a bit. loved it, but my buddy's '70 440+6 did it much better and would scare the bejeebers outta people in the cross walk.

ultimately i'm tired and nervous of the retro label. as soon as a label is applied like that it spells the beginning of the end for anything because it makes it susceptible to a fad or craze. again, marketing monkeys.

it seems to me the non us markets haven't treated the classic (ouch, another one) standard configuration as a retro selling ploy. it's just another design that works for some people. or maybe they have but not run the idea into the ground- yet.

[detdrbuzzard]

take a look at the street bike market. mostly what you see are cruisers and sport bikes and while harleys sell and ducatis numbersare increasing the big three from japan owne the market. one of them will be lucky enough to have a standard on the market at the right time. i look at friends of mine riding sport bikes and cruisers. they are up in around 50 and look foward to icyhot orben gay after a ride. they don't want a touring bike but what choice do they have.i liked the last nighthawk 750 honda had on the market too bad it wasn't a 1000 nighthawk cause one would be in my garage

[Industrial Rat400f Killer]

well, at least harley is going to start selling the xr1200 here now, in 11 more days supposedly. i would actually consider a harley because of that model, it's style is pretty different from anything they make today

I've been wanting to build a XR1200 with the Storz parts for a couple of years and then Harley turns around and makes one for sale. International Motorcycle show in Seattle had one and they are pretty cool. I'd have to make some changes to it right away but it's almost exactly what I wanted to build. I heard they were only $11.5 two.

To bad about the 1100 I was already fantasizing about the modifications I was going to do to it. Ah well it looks like if I buy a new bike in the next couple of years it'll be the XR1200 or if BMW releases those custom bikes I might hit one of those.

[Ecosse]

"take a look at the street bike market. mostly what you see are cruisers and sport bikes and while harleys sell and ducatis numbersare increasing the big three from japan owne the market. one of them will be lucky enough to have a standard on the market at the right time. i look at friends of mine riding sport bikes and cruisers. they are up in around 50 and look foward to icyhot orben gay after a ride. they don't want a touring bike but what choice do they have.i liked the last nighthawk 750 honda had on the market too bad it wasn't a 1000 nighthawk cause one would be in my garage"


point well taken. also, maybe with an increasing number of riders and the huge number of baby boomers looking to have fun there'll be a bigger demand for variety in types of bikes. maybe.

one thing i've observed, again in the automobile industry, is that a platform doesn't have to be a flop to be killed off. if they've gotten their money out of a design but it doesn't return projected sales numbers it can be killed off. they will sometimes have unrealistic or just flawed projections and someone decides ok that's it. even if the sales aren't way down, they can just miss the estimate that's the excuse for the dump in favor of the easy money (presumably) for yet another variation of the cruiser. cause, ya know, 51 versions of the same thing just isn't enough.

oh yeah, kudos for hd for offering the xr1200. good luck to them!

[nickjtc]

I'm sorry but the reason they stopped production was that no matter what they tried (500/650/Turbo) they still could not get that motor to perform. In all actuality it's widely believed that Honda built this motor specifically to be used in the Turbo application. And still.... FLOP.

Everything is relative. A motorcycle that doesn't 'do' well here in North America can turn out to be a raging success elsewhere. The 'Plastic Maggot' (CX500), after they solved the initial teething problems, became the darling of the motorcycle courier crowd in England on the basis of it's ease of maintenance and ability to rack up huge mileages. Don't quote me, but if I remember correctly the CX500 was one of Honda's most popular early '80s models in the UK.

[HavocTurbo]

I'm sorry but the reason they stopped production was that no matter what they tried (500/650/Turbo) they still could not get that motor to perform. In all actuality it's widely believed that Honda built this motor specifically to be used in the Turbo application. And still.... FLOP.

Everything is relative. A motorcycle that doesn't 'do' well here in North America can turn out to be a raging success elsewhere. The 'Plastic Maggot' (CX500), after they solved the initial teething problems, became the darling of the motorcycle courier crowd in England on the basis of it's ease of maintenance and ability to rack up huge mileages. Don't quote me, but if I remember correctly the CX500 was one of Honda's most popular early '80s models in the UK.

Please don't misunderstand.... I didn't mean EVERYWHERE. Just meant here.

The status of things in the good old USA is always changing. Sometimes that's good and sometimes not. Most often not, especially when the markets are hit with a really good thing. (ie standard position bikes).

All I meant to say was that if you sit and look at the trends of the last 10 or 20 years..... "fast and furious" and "mile marker" are the only choices people here have for new bikes.

I personally would turn everything I own into a standard position bike.... if I had the time. But I don't. And you cannot keep up with the "big boys" on a track if you aren't looking like you wanna get fresh with your gas tank.

The downside to the CX500 here in the USA was they canned the thing before they made any major developments. Something most all makers do when hit with a leveling position in sales. Look at the Kawasaki 500 Ninja.... midlevel size, lots of power for a twin, middle riding position. We sold TONS of them.... especially in the last several years. But nope.... numbers number numbers is the way we do it here. So kiss it goodbye.

[Ecosse]

please don't laugh but i thought the wee ninja (250?) could be a fun bike. sure, at 5' 10/11" and 190 lbs. i might be a tad big for it. but it's got more oomph than a bunch of classic bikes and handles much sharper. a great in town bike?

so, any thoughts about the wisdom of offering a range (displacement, etc) of standards rather than one do or die model?

[754]

its been done...

 By Honda in the 70,s

called the CB series..

 They still live today.. hard things to kill..



between 1080 & 754 we have at least 25  engine cores.. good for the rest of our lives.. LOL..

[HavocTurbo]

please don't laugh but i thought the wee ninja (250?) could be a fun bike. sure, at 5' 10/11" and 190 lbs. i might be a tad big for it. but it's got more oomph than a bunch of classic bikes and handles much sharper. a great in town bike?

so, any thoughts about the wisdom of offering a range (displacement, etc) of standards rather than one do or die model?

It's my firm belief (backed up by experience) that the 250 is only still alive not only because it is an entry level bike, but in the last two years we have sold close to 200 in this are alone. Even had to contact corporate directly to order more as well as the upcoming 09 model pre orders.

I have set up so many that I could literally do it blindfolded. Crate to road.

As for the diverse model offering....

If someone were to offer, lets just say twins, in a wide variety of sizes ranging from 250cc to 900cc options combined with standard riding positions as well as aftermarket parts for "cafe" style riding positions:

Well you might be on to something.

[Ecosse]

its been done...

 By Honda in the 70,s

called the CB series..

 They still live today.. hard things to kill..



between 1080 & 754 we have at least 25  engine cores.. good for the rest of our lives.. LOL..

 

ah, a good idea remains a good idea. even if people are slow to realize it.

so havoc what are your thoughts about why the lil 250 sells beyond entry level attraction?

i fear if one of the asian companies offers only a single model 'standard' or whatever and it doesn't break the bank in sales they'll respond with a "see, i told ya so" then quickly drop it.

wouldn't a japanese inline twin be cool? four better still.

[333]

Here is where money comes into play.  There have been 250 4cyls in the rest of the world.  But we here in the U.S. won't pay $4000 or $5000 for a 250, regardless how of cool it might be.  The American mentality of "bigger is better" stopped that before it ever started.

[Ecosse]

Here is where money comes into play.  There have been 250 4cyls in the rest of the world.  But we here in the U.S. won't pay $4000 or $5000 for a 250, regardless how of cool it might be.  The American mentality of "bigger is better" stopped that before it ever started.

i'll agree with you there! it's unfortunate the bigger is better mentality often prevails. although it was swayed- if just a bit, small still is equated with cheap. and i don't mean the good kinda cheap.

don't get me wrong... i still like big ol' caddy's and chrysler newports, large caliber fire arms, 2liter one cylinder motorcycles, etc... but a fool wouldn't also love the crazy powerful ford rs 200 and honda RC166. I loved the english ford/cosworth escort rally special with that wild dual rear wing but the us escort reinforced the small is junk mindset here.

i think momentum can be built upon the slow shift away from the simplistic view that small=bad.